Hmmmm. An NVQ level 3 in what's it called, oh yeah ENGINEERING. A HNC in errrr ENGINEERING. 15 years working in errrr ENGINEERING companies. What does that make me then? I must be in denial.

Yes because HNC and Level 3 NVQ's are the eqivilant of a tech school and thus does not make you an engineer. Those qualifications aren't worth much in a country where it is extremely easy to get into University.

Yes you are - there is a big difference between the content of a HNC course and a Degree - the mathematics and theory for one. An HND is a different kettle of fish, the content is much closer to a Degree, especially 20/30 years ago.

<snip> making yourself feel better loser job titles don't transend to Australia. If you don't have the degree don't be calling yourself an engineer because all the engineers in Australia do have that degree.

Its common for Australian engineers in the UK to say that their degree is the eqivilant of a Uk Masters because of the extra year.

HNC and NVQ Level qualifciations in many professions in Australia are jusdt lolz!!!!! lol

Think what you like just cause you went and got a degree while others trained up with real experience. My qualifications got me a positive skills assessment for mechanical engineer from EA and did not stop me getting a job in Sydney. Oh and I quote from the wonders of the Internet:-

The Institute of Engineering and Technology of Great Britain show that an HNC earned prior to September 1999, e.g. HND or HNC is equivalent to a three year accredited bachelor degree. This falls in line with rules with the Sydney Accord regarding immigration rules into Australia.[6]

And as for the content. I did years 2 and 3 of a part time degree at Leeds Met and I can tell you the content was not significantly different, just a lot more assignments. I can't comment on year 4 as I had to pull out for financial reasons.

Engineering Degrees in the UK and Australia go under the Washington Accord. Closer look at the Sydney accord its basically a tech school qualification.

Can't be bothered with arguing. Fact is in the UK we have chartered engineers and incorperated engineers. CEng and IEng. Fair enough Australia 95% of the time downgrades IEng to technologist. This was to please the chartered club. Any professional who attempts to degrade their colleagues does not deserve the respect they should have gained attaining their qualifications. You do not see this degrading anywhere near as much in other professions.

The point is, being good at mathematics and theory does not make you a good engineer, hence a degree doesn't.

There's two ways of looking at it

1. Australian educated engineers really are better than the rest of the world and engineers Australia are correct in requiring a degree to be chartered or

2. The standard of Australian engineers is actually no better than anywhere else, however Engineers Australia are trying to keep some form of exclusivity to keep themselves in a job.

A comparison between Australian infrastructure and that of Western Europe would tend to say number 2, as would the fact that Australian companies are willing to pay twice the average salary for people without a degree.

My own theory would be that once upon a time charter status was very hard to come by. Now you can get on a degree course in Australia with relative ease and there are now way too many chartered engineers than jobs. This means they are having to take 'lesser' more hands on jobs previously done by incorperated engineers such as draughting, design and production. The only way they can get into these jobs They have no experience with is by degrading us incorperated engineers to technologists.

Bachelor degrees have also been Degraded down the list as well. These now only get you IEng status In the UK (Technologist in oz) and you need a masters for CEng.

What a load of Rubbish. There are plenty of shit British Engineers just like there plenty of shite Australian Engineers.

If Engineers Australia is using it's exclusiveness to keep itself well then chartied qualficiations are using themselves to make non engineering losers feel better about being an engineer. Unless you've done a 3 year degree from an accredited British Univerisity...in Australia you are NOT an Engineer no one here will ever consider you one. NVQ3 and HNC are TAFE diplomas in Australia (which is now pretty much a worthlesss qualification)

Saying that Engineers without degrees make double the money is outright crap. I know a few British Engineers without degrees who struggled to even find work. Without a legitimate engineering degree no one will every consider you an engineer in Australia and that's fact.

And that's bollox

As far a I am aware in Britain a qualified engineer is those who have got a chartered status (CEng). e.g. has been assessed and approved by ECUK ...

NVQ3 and HNC are TAFE diplomas in Australia (which is now pretty much a worthlesss qualification)

Saying that Engineers without degrees make double the money is outright crap. I know a few British Engineers without degrees who struggled to even find work. Without a legitimate engineering degree no one will every consider you an engineer in Australia and that's fact.[/QUOTE]


well no wonder Australia struggles for skills.

You keep saying that yet railwaypeople.com routinely advertised jobs in Oz at 130k plus where having a degree or being chartered Isn't required.