emigration reality
 

been visiting BE for a few months now and it has amazed me how my ideas and misconceptions of a life in Oz have changed. when the idea of moving came to my wife and i, the motive was simply for a better quality of life. i believed that the cost of living was far less than the uk, that houses were a giveaway and that i would earn far more dough. i am not entirely sure where i gleaned these useful nuggets of info, but joining BE put me right. there have been many threads concerning these issues, and posters such as arkon have been berated for posting opinions percieved as negative. thank god for the "negative" posts or i'd be going into this like the light brigade!! my wife and i are still very much up for it and i have the possibility of a decent job on reasonable pay in the picture from yesterday, but now our tentative plans are geared around realistic goals and the 4 bed house with pool and two new cars has changed to 2 bed house and 2 year old Holden with high mileage!
i still hold onto the belief we will have a better quality of life but because we will be prepared to downsize our life in a lot of ways. it is so easy to get carried away with the idea that Oz is some kind of shangrila and i thought i was past this at 40. your thoughts on this, as always, will be most welcome. :)
cheers

Re: emigration reality
 

Well if you head to Oz with that attitude then I dont think you can go far wrong. Of course on the flipside of the cost of things such as houses, cars etc etc you also have the fact that you spend your free time completely differently here than you do in the UK. On weekends in the UK we used to spend a lot of our time wandering around shops spending money on sh!t that we didnt really need. The weather was crap (a lot of the time) and there was very little to do which didnt cost a lot of money. Here however there a parks on every corner, lovely weather (not right now but soon!! :) ) and it is a very sociable place. There is usually something to do every weekend and if you have nothing planned then you simply relax in the garden - cant fault it.

Its just every day life here but so far I'm able to enjoy it more than I did in the UK :D

Re: emigration reality
 

Sure - bring on the negative posts - get a dose of reality - realise that it isn't all 'A New Life Down Under'. But please don't imagine for one second that you're getting anything like a balanced viewpoint from Arkon 'All Australians are thick' and his crew of Ozzie xenophobes.

Re: emigration reality
 

you've not been out long tygwyn, settled in ok? how is the oz dream for you?
went to the cinema and then for a meal with my wife at the weekend. £1OO down and the meal was crap. i feel that in brissie my down time will be better spent, healthier and cheaper. i,ve put on 3 stone in the last few years here and am at weight watchers to rid myself of the michelin man look for the medicals!

Re: emigration reality
 

sure. got to make your own mind up. a bad experience has got to colour your views somewhat though. how about you, going well?

Re: emigration reality
 

Yep. I fly home on the 7th of July. Can't wait. :)

Re: emigration reality
 

Yes we've settled in ok thanks. It was a bit of culture shock when we first arrived because we hadnt been to Oz before and it really wasnt anything like I had expected it to be! I've got my head around the differences now though and dont seem shocked by it anymore. When we first arrived the weather was lovely and you really could imagine how your new life is going to be. With the weather the way it is now its not a great deal different from the UK but I still dont spend my time the same way I did back there. I go around my Aussie friends house a lot (everyday!!) either for a cup of tea or a few beers. Our daughters play together pretty much every day and when its not raining we're all out on our bikes! Cant fault it. The funny thing is that my friend is picking up my accent and actually called 'thongs' 'flip flops' yesterday - love it! :D

I wouldnt say it is a 'dream lifestyle' but I'm enoying it all the same (even though we're skint!! :D )

Rach xxxx

Re: emigration reality
 

I second that entirely. You've done so well to come to that realisation before you get here. We came thinking "worst case scenario" so it could be only better than that (even when we moved into a rental crawling with cockroaches :scared: )
But as long as you can take pleasure in the simple things - sitting by the sea - watching the waves crashing down (even if you can only afford one cup of coffee between the two of you!)
Seeing a "low" phonebill - because you don't have any friends yet - so you've not phoned anyone!
As has been said time and time again - it's not for everyone......but as the saying goes "you'll never know...unless you try it!

L-j xx

Re: emigration reality
 

read a bit of your blog and found the bit about people moving to cities interesting.......... think you might be right there. will give it some thought while i wait 6 months or so for a visa!!! :)

Re: emigration reality
 

2 year old Holden? You lucky baaastard. :)

Re: emigration reality
 

Yea - my pet theory. It is puzzling, isn't it? Where do you plan to move to?

Re: emigration reality
 

this is how i feel. at the moment i am pressured into a lot of hours at work, never see my wife and am at work most weekends.justify this to myself by booking an exotic holiday or buying some pointless gadget to make myself feel better about my life slipping by. due to overtime money is ok but life rating is poor. want to get out of this cycle and focus on what is important, you know?

Re: emigration reality
 

brissie. former boss moved there last august and seems he wants me to work for him again, so may have job to go to. how can you have any idea of good areas etc? will have to do a recce as have never been to Oz before. dont mind a commute ( do 30 miles each day into edinburgh) so could combine working in brissie with the hutch city rage theory and live in the country!

Re: emigration reality
 

this is probably the second round of unrealistic goals and we will end up with a ten year old lada, live in a shop window drinking paint thinners and raking bins at mcdonalds.
thinking about edinburgh and how great it was.
with no cash for a flight "home".

i think i've gone too far the other way!!

Re: emigration reality
 

The somewhat harsh bottom line is - you can't. I mean, it's no different to the UK at the end of the day - there are areas here that'd I'd never consider moving to in a million years and yet people love them. You can visit places, have a coffee in a local cafe, drive around the streets and try and get a feel for them, but it's not until you actually live there that you'll really know if it's for you and yours. That's why it's so important to rent when you first arrive - then if you find somewhere's not your cup of tea, you can just move on to somewhere new. That said, there's plenty of folks here who live in Brisbane and can give you an idea of which areas are worth bothering with, and which aren't. Oh, and I'd definitely recommend a recce. :)

Re: emigration reality
 

Know exactly what you mean.We don't have much dosh but we deffo spend more time together as a family. Hubby has just walked to the local shops with eldest son to buy some bits to fix up bikes we "picked up" from council clean-up! (when people throw out the stuff they no longer need). It's so true - once you stop buying "stuff" you don't need - you're life seems so much simpler. In uk i felt i was constantly on a treadmill - weekends ame and went and it would be Sunday night - and you hadnt had any leisure time. You go to parks here on the weekend -and they are packed with families - being together - total cost - nothing!

All depends what you want out of life.

L-j xx

Re: emigration reality
 

yeah a recce was mentally poo-pooed till dug into BE. Not knocking anyone that doesn't do one. my thoughts were that the money spent on a recce would be better spent setting up, as no doubt many think. i just don't have the bottle. also renting for a while seems like sound advice.

Re: emigration reality
 

so true. my local shop is a 100 yards away and i jump in the car. i'm not lazy, just mentally knackered and always tired.even applying for oz has got me on a diet and feeling perkier. i don't want a merc and a mansion, just to feel i am living a healthy happy life. we want to go to oz and start a family, feeling life there is better for this. does this seem fair or another daydream. that's a point. i never used to daydream and i do it all the time now.

Re: emigration reality
 

We are here with 3 children and if we'd come out here before having children we would have definitely travelled around first to get a good idea of where we wnted to live. It's harder with children - cos you just want them settled in school.
Bumped into a couple in Kmart the other day. (you can always spot the Poms! - they are the ones asking "do you sell blow-up airbeds"?) Anyway......they are doing 6 months in each place (Brissy, Sydney, Perth Melbourne). What a fantastic idea!

L-j xx

Re: emigration reality
 

Great post.

You're right. It is important to get a mixed bag of views, at least that way you wont be disappointed. Australia is a beautiful place to live and thankfully for most people it's a great choice, however for some it seems like purgatory and an expensive mistake and this is why it is such an emotive subject. No one moves to Aus because they hate Australia, however for some people Australia just doesn't "gel" somehow...and this can have devastating effects and be very very stressful.

We had no pre-conceived ideas about Aus. Having never even visited before we had no idea what we would like or dislike about it however we did expect it to be different to the UK, which I think helped temper our initial views. Don't ask me why we didn't visit and why we risked everything, as although we are risk takers it was probably the most risky thing we have ever done. However for us it has worked out, albeit life aint perfect, but we realise this wherever in the world you live. Our life in UK was good i.e great jobs and excellent standard of living etc...but we lived to work rather than worked to live.....and herein lies the answer... FOR US....as the answer is that simple really.

Aus suits us and vice versa. It isn't everyone's cup-o-tea and life here certainly is not a bed of roses, the job situation for example is dire IMHO and very much over rated / over stated ....but again this is MY opinion based on MY experience. I accept everyone's views differ based on THEIR experiences.

For us, the Aussie people, the climate, the lifestyle, the "easiness" of life <read less day to day stress> is so much more enjoyable. And sometimes this is attributed to insignificant things, take for example yesterday.

I had to go to the Doctors, so off I trot, unannounced to my local GP, only to find them fully booked up [my fault, no appointment]....anyways, I go home, ring a few local GP's and manage to be seen in the afternoon. I go to Dr's, get my prescription and then go to Medicare to get a refund for the cost of seeing the Dr.

Medicare office are so professional, so prompt and so efficient and refund me $31.45 of the $46 dollars it has cost me to see the Dr. I then go across to the Pharmacy and pick up my prescription for $20. Again, efficient, polite and professional. Now all in all, I was seen on the same day, was "serviced" politely and efficiently and professionally and it cost me about $35 bucks. Now personally speaking, this was far less stressful than when I lived in UK.

In UK I would ring the Dr's surgery only to have a surly receptionist tell me I should have rung earlier and then ask me what's wrong ....then I would have been informed that unless it was an emergency <read life threatening> then I could have an appointment in a week :rolleyes: ..Now personally speaking, it is things like THAT that used to stress me out. If I'm poorly, then the last thing I want to do is be vetted by a friggin receptionist or wait a sodding week, by which time I'm better, so I waste mine and the Dr's time:cool:

Then there is car parking; Here in Aus unless you go to the cities, parking is generally free. Yes FREE! My father came here for three months and in the end I nearly had to stamp a message on his forehead saying "Free parking" as he would have a heart attack every time I walked away from the car. He was paranoid I might get a parking ticket as he couldn't believe parking was free, and he would frantically be searching out for a parking meter worried I might get a parking ticket. "Dad....it's free" was what I said every time I parked the car, even before we set out to go anywhere and "are you sure" was always his response :rolleyes:

Then there's the litter and dog shit; Yes, I know...not a big deal to some folk....but one thing I noticed was the lack of it here compared to UK. And believe me, I lived in a nice place in UK....but for some reason people still thought it was OK to let their dog crap and not have to clean up after themselves. And before anyone starts, I've got a dog so I love dogs. It's the owners that need training:rolleyes:. Anyways, as I was saying, I've noticed here there are a lot of recreational areas with BBQs etc, and often people are out and about with their dogs, and the owners have their doggy bags to clean up. Of course there will always be a few selfish so-and-so's...but in the main people are respectful and responsible owners.

And then there are the BBQ areas. Again these are generally free, even the gas ones. I see people use them then clean them for the next person. You see the odd area untidy but in the main they are well kept and clean..

These are just a few examples of the day to day living that for us creates a better standard of living and of course the list is not exhaustive. There are also things that we miss from UK. How can you live somewhere for a long time and not do so?.... but this is Awwwwstralia....and it's a different country....and we have emigrated....so WE have had to learn to adapt:)

I accept this is not the same for everyone...and there are certain things you just can't compare. Missing friends and family for example. It doesn't matter where you are you are going to miss them once you decide to emigrate. That is part and parcel of emigrating, so no point even comparing this, of course you have no idea how you will cope with it until you do move though.

So....in summary, Aus aint perfect. There are some things which in my view are backwards here in Aus [work ethics for example] and other things where Aus beats the UK hands down and then other things where you will miss regardless [friends & family etc], but for us personally... overall Aus is the winner. It's a less stressful, more fulfilling day-2-day lifestyle and although very, very different, it's got some tremendous positives. This isn't the same for everyone though, and the only way you can ever know....is to try it!!

Good luck in your new adventure:)

Re: emigration reality
 

Good God Lady,

Now thats what i call a good honest post.


Work-life balance - -thats the thing for us.

Thankyou


xRachx

Re: emigration reality
 

Tried with the K but i have to spread.

xRachx

Re: emigration reality
 

If you believed everything that Arkon said about his dark and miserable perception about Australia then the whole country would have hung itself by now ;)

Perhaps it is the nature of this forum though that the content and happy tend to get less attention than the gloomy and whinging. The same people of course who probably moved from the UK because they were unhappy there of course. Running theme perhaps ?

Australia isnt for everyone. It is for us though and I have to return back to the UK in a few weeks for a wedding. Thankfully only staying 5 days before I can come back home again. Would have stayed even less time but flights and prices didnt allow. I have a strange dreading of going back there. I wouldnt swap my life here for all the tea in china (and I like tea a lot!) :)

Re: emigration reality
 

Excellent post. BE helped us tremendously before we arrived here to read all the positive and nagatives too. I must admit I think I went a bit paranoid when seeing the pics of the spiders and creepy crawlies and since being here it's actually good to now be able to distinguish them when I see them (from half a mile away :o ) it's not that bad ;) We found out about the ongoing pain of the redtape and so many thing to have to do when we arrived.
We are taking the bad with the good and promising ourselves that no matter how we feel we will give it at least two years to settle. We are both in our 40's with a teenage daughter and adult son. Hubby is still working hard and does admit to missing his old work collegues and boss but still going through the redtape for his electrical licence. We have managed to buy the 4 bed and pool home but it will be tight but was in the UK. We have also managed to buy a decent 2nd hand car, a landcruiser. I call it a flippin' bus. :rolleyes:
We are at the stage now of trying to go out and join one or two clubs to try and make a new circle of friends. I think that will come in time.
What we enjoy is the outdoor lifestyle like BBQ's and just sitting by the ocean. I think it can be as expensive or cheap as you make it. We were never ones with a great deal of money and are definately no better off here that way. However the lifestyle suits us. We seem to be partying more here and taking things more in our stride.
I do agree that it wont suit everyone but for us it is.
Good luck
Lesleym

Re: emigration reality
 

:)

Re: emigration reality
 

Someone said that if they had public BBQ's in the UK they would all be vandalised and destroyed in no time. :mad:

Re: emigration reality
 

Who knows...I don't want to get into the UK Vs Aus vandal debate cos vandalism does occur here in Aus too:)

I suppose a lot is due to culture. For example, the UK have milk delivered and some cultures would never understand the mentality of leaving milk on the doorstep without it getting nicked:D

Another cultural example is Germany / France where kids are allowed to drink alcohol at the dinner table. I found growing up with these kids meant alcohol really didn't play as an important part or interest them, probably because it was readily available and part of the culture. I on the other hand, in my youth was always getting pissed up:D

So in answer to your comment, I reckon the kids here in Aus don't seem to vandalise the BBQs because they've probably seen them around forever and a day and it's part of Aussie culture. They have also probably appreciated the recreational value at some time or another in their own lives.I don't know what the answer is...I just know on the whole things seem very different to UK....

Re: emigration reality
 

When my family moved to Tassie (1981; I was 8 years old at the time) we had our milk delivered. In fact, it arrived in a billy! We'd scrub the billy clean in the evenings and leave it out overnight. The milkman would come round at some ungodly hour (usually 06:00) to fill it up from the huge milk vats in his truck.

Coming from suburban Western Australia, this was like a step back in time for me - but in a good way. :)

A few years later, the dairy replaced their billy-filling policy with the delivery of milk cartons. Still very convenient, but I have to say that it lacked the olde worlde charm of the humble billy. :o

Eventually they stopped delivering altogether; I guess the service just wasn't economical feasible anymore.

Here in the UK, I have been struck by the fact that milk deliveries still exist - with bottled milk, no less! Tin foil tops and all... very quaint and old-fashioned. Good old co-ops still keeping the tradition alive.

It's not for me, though - I'd be too worried about my milk being sabotaged by some repulsive little chav. :rolleyes:

Re: emigration reality
 

Hi,thanks for starting this thread,having been on here for a few I at first had the impression that a lot of people were just slagging oz for the sake of it,but they are just being honest in what they think,for me I cant wait to get out there and do it all myself,good luck,and holdens are good!!!!!!Cheers Dave :beer:

Re: emigration reality
 

Eeee Vash. You're only a young un...but you have experienced milk being delivered in Billy cans:D You know what, it's experiences like these that make us who we are, make our cultures. Nice story Vash;)

Re: emigration reality
 

One of the reason's why Arkon's posts have been berated, is because he believes his live in rural Oz represents the rest of Australia.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but posts such as his are absolutely useless....even if you were to move to Wiggamollooolaa (population 7) :D

Re: emigration reality
 

A lot of them to raise points that are valid in other parts of Aus - lack of competition, small amounts held in stock, that kind of thing is relevant in many other places. Whilst some of his problems are only relevant to alpaca farms out the back of Whoop Whoop, other ring very true with people in other rural areas, and even in cities.
Also - why shouldn't he post about his worries? Someone else may be considering becoming an alpaca farmer out the back of Whoop Whoop, so his points deserve an airing :D

Re: emigration reality
 

Salaries in Oz are far less than what you earn in UK?The job market is a lot less in Oz.Famous brands like Gucci, Louis Vuitton,Argos etc. have only two retail stores in Sydney and none in Melbourne,Perth etc.Howards says Australia is a paradise in terms of jobs and employment but he doesn't know a single job position is advertised by 5-20 recruitment agencies simultaneously.

Re: emigration reality
 

Hi Pheonixinoz

I'm new to the forum and did have preconceived ideas about moving to Oz - more money, bigger house etc. I then got very depressed when i read some of the postings - but yours was excellent. It's about quality of life, and having visited WA in April for several weeks - seeing the bbqs, parks and spending more time with hubby - I can't wait to move! Thanks for your posting - it is brilliant and very balanced. I now feel much happier! And as for dr's receptionists - i know exactly what you mean! Why should we have to tell them whats wrong with us!!! Thanks again - Karma coming your way!

Josie
x :D

Re: emigration reality
 

Hi LesleyM

reading your post you mentioned your husband was still going through the redtape for his electrical licence. My better half will also have to go through this - you couldn't tell me what it's all about could you? Is your husband still able to work in this field whilst he's getting his licence or not? Look forward to hearing form you!

Josie
:)

Re: emigration reality
 

Very true.

Australia is a big island with a relatively small population and very little competition inside Australia. This creates cartel behaviour i.e lack of competition and big companies price fixing. Of course you'll not see this in the newspapers nor will you see real evidence of it in the news, god forbid anyone will ever admit it in the boys club:rolleyes: but just look at the prices in the supermarkets and you'll soon see the subtleties. There is without doubt price fixing going on.

Due to the nature of the way business is run here there is also sometimes difficulties associated with big country/small population dynamics, for instance volumes and variety of stock etc, etc. This is probably more problematic for someone owing/managing a business over here rather than the *average* person living in Aus.

Whilst Arkon does point out various difficulties unique to his circumstances [he lives in whoopwoop and is trying to run two businesses] ...he infact demonstrates circumstances outside the norm for most. These things can happen to those in the city, just maybe not quite as bad or quite as exaggerated as in Arkon's case.

Most people live near the cities = more people = less isolation = more availability. However Arkons points are non the less valid and in HIS opinion they are true. This is no different to anyones else's view i.e we all think our own views are right;)

Arkon gets my vote, cos besides moaning about things at least he is doing something to change his circumstances. I don't always agree with how he sees Australia, but then neither does Arkon with mine. That's because we are both seeing the same country through different eyes and with different circumstances. And this applies to each and every one of us:)

Aus aint perfik....and it don't suit everyone.

And that's a FACT:D

Re: emigration reality
 

Hi Josie and welcome to the forum. There has been several very good threads re electricians on here. Try to do a search and you will get loads of interesting info. I'm afraid I'm not to good at explaining things. My hubby managed to get work almost straight away however only as an assistant ( which means he can't do electrical work without being supervised). First of all he needed to apply yet again to the TRA with exactly the same info regarding his trade and experience etc to get us into the country. TRA then sent us a certificate which says on it 'australian recognised trade certificate' and a number on the top corner. He then needed to go to the Department of Employment with that certificate and fill in a form and they then posted an electrical work training permit to us. He then went to the nearest TAFE (college) and has an interview with them next week. From what I've learnt from other members here, I am presuming is that all the interview leads to is doing an electricians course for either six or twelve months and then doing the tests and hopefully he will be classified as a full electrician to Australian standards. If he wants to go into business he needs to do further tests. I'm afraid they don't take into consideration how qualified and how many years experience you already have. Thankfully some members here did put our minds at rest letting us know we could get work and survive on the pay in the meantime. Also remember you don't necessarily have to work in that particular field and if you are prepared to you can take any other job in the meantime.
Best of Luck
Lesleym

Re: emigration reality
 

Today's highland News: the cost of vandalism to the local council at least $150,000 this year. Graffiti, smashed facilities (photo of the Morton National park visitor facility pulled to the ground by a 4WD) etc.

Litter here is MUCH worse than we had in the UK - and around Horsham we thought it bad.

Negative: yes. True: Yes.

Re: emigration reality
 

What a great honest post!! I really enjoyed reading that - made a lot of sense to me!

We're hoping to be in Brisbane soon, although house sale looks like it's fallen thru ... but we'll get there eventually!

K sent
Sonic x

Re: emigration reality
 

[QUOTE=phoenixinoz]Great post.

You're right. It is important to get a mixed bag of views, at least that way you wont be disappointed. Australia is a beautiful place to live and thankfully for most people it's a great choice, however for some it seems like purgatory and an expensive mistake and this is why it is such an emotive subject. No one moves to Aus because they hate Australia, however for some people Australia just doesn't "gel" somehow...and this can have devastating effects and be very very stressful.

Great post phoenixinoz :)

L-j