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Re: education system
Originally Posted by hoveactually
(Post 6963823)
Have you looked at Stormanston Catholic College which is due to open in 2011? I thought they gave a very impressive presentation at the recent public meeting; at least they will have a formal curriculum as the students will sit the International Baccalaureate.
I have her name down at LJBC and St Marks so I can only cross my fingers and hope for the best. |
Re: education system
Originally Posted by NKSK version 2
(Post 6964281)
And does this lack of information concern anyone?
Originally Posted by hereshoping
(Post 6964397)
But teachers to get taken to task, and yes even sacked, if they don't do their job properly. As with all professions there will be some people who are better at their jobs than others- but incompetent teachers are not just tolerated. In both the UK and in VIC there is a rigerous system of observation and monitoring to ensure teachers are doing right by their students and to help them to improve. This sort of statement is exactly demonstrative of the complete lack of trust that many UK parents have in teachers, generally with no good reason for this mistrust.
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Re: education system
Originally Posted by Safin
(Post 6964263)
Nor in QLD
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Re: education system
Originally Posted by rabsody
(Post 6964576)
Actually I have received this break down on which questions have been answered correctly and incorrectly here in Qld before, but it's been sporadic, we don't get it every year.
Each child has a user name and password, so that the parent can check exactly how they did. I can't recall what is is called now, but I think my daughter does it every other year. |
Re: education system
Originally Posted by ABCDiamond
(Post 6964620)
That is for a different set of exams that we do up here. We can also view the questions and answers on line after the results are issued.
Each child has a user name and password, so that the parent can check exactly how they did. I can't recall what is is called now, but I think my daughter does it every other year. Never had a password or anything though! Just a print out of the answer sheet. |
Re: education system
Originally Posted by Safin
(Post 6964512)
Certainly that's why i am trying to get hold of our local data
Maybe the excruciatingly bad ones do. But many mediocre at best teachers are left to get on with it. And yes I have a degree of mistrust and yes it is with reason in my case. A good teacher is worth their weight in gold and ultimately more important than curriclums and testing etc. Unfortunately they are not all good. As for being monitored - eveyone can put on a good show no and then. And yes everyone can put on a good show now and a gain, which is why no decent manager will rely only on formal preplanned observations to judge how good their staff are (and yes I know not all managers are decent, I've worked for many rubbish ones) |
Re: education system
Originally Posted by hereshoping
(Post 6964765)
Maybe mediocre teachers are left to get on with it (i doubt it, I actually think they are probably helped to improve). Unfortunately this is true of all professions, if you got rid of all the mediocre teachers who would teach the class?
And yes everyone can put on a good show now and a gain, which is why no decent manager will rely only on formal preplanned observations to judge how good their staff are (and yes I know not all managers are decent, I've worked for many rubbish ones) It's getting rid of them that's the issue - it's just about impossible. |
Re: education system
Thats what I thought - maybe hereshopping can tell us diferently
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Re: education system
Originally Posted by hereshoping
(Post 6964765)
Maybe mediocre teachers are left to get on with it (i doubt it, I actually think they are probably helped to improve). Unfortunately this is true of all professions, if you got rid of all the mediocre teachers who would teach the class?
And yes everyone can put on a good show now and a gain, which is why no decent manager will rely only on formal preplanned observations to judge how good their staff are (and yes I know not all managers are decent, I've worked for many rubbish ones) |
Re: education system
Originally Posted by hoveactually
(Post 6967460)
Whilst it's true that you will find mediocre performers in all professions - doctors, dentists, bank managers etc - in these cases if you don't like the service you are receiving you simply find someone else, not quite so easy when it comes to teachers. Your statement "if you got rid of all the mediocre teachers who would teach the class?" seems to me to be a terrible indictment on what I take to be your profession.
My concern is how you find incontrovertible evidence that the teacher is crap. It is easy to find the evidence in the professions you list - not so in teaching in the Australian system. |
Re: education system
Originally Posted by hoveactually
(Post 6967460)
Whilst it's true that you will find mediocre performers in all professions - doctors, dentists, bank managers etc - in these cases if you don't like the service you are receiving you simply find someone else, not quite so easy when it comes to teachers. Your statement "if you got rid of all the mediocre teachers who would teach the class?" seems to me to be a terrible indictment on what I take to be your profession.
I don't know how hard it is to get rid of permanant teachers in VIC (can't comment on any other state) but I do know that it is very common to employ a teacher for a year of term contract at first and then only move to a permanant contract if they are up to the job. In the uk it is hard, because the focus is on helping teachers to improve as a first step and then moving to dismissal only if the teacher is unable or unwilling to change their practice. |
Re: education system
Originally Posted by Safin
(Post 6964512)
Maybe the excruciatingly bad ones do. But many mediocre at best teachers are left to get on with it. And yes I have a degree of mistrust and yes it is with reason in my case. A good teacher is worth their weight in gold and ultimately more important than curriclums and testing etc. Unfortunately they are not all good. As for being monitored - eveyone can put on a good show no and then. |
Re: education system
Originally Posted by geelong
(Post 6967916)
As for being able to put on a good show. How long has it been since you were in a classroom? Headteachers are forever walking around schools, popping into classrooms, chatting to the children as well as the more formal performance management reviews. So it is highly unlikely they would be unaware of the capabilities of their staff members.
I was responding to hereshoppings comment of " In both the UK and in VIC there is a rigerous system of observation and monitoring to ensure teachers are doing right by their students and to help them to improve. " But i do accept that the formal assessment isn't all there is to it. It is however in large the part that they use to evidence their punative actions against poor teachers - or so I believe and am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. |
Re: education system
Originally Posted by Safin
(Post 6970970)
Earlier this week......
I was responding to hereshoppings comment of " In both the UK and in VIC there is a rigerous system of observation and monitoring to ensure teachers are doing right by their students and to help them to improve. " But i do accept that the formal assessment isn't all there is to it. It is however in large the part that they use to evidence their punative actions against poor teachers - or so I believe and am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. |
Re: education system
Originally Posted by hereshoping
(Post 6971143)
But when I said 'a rigerous system' surely that implied that it was not just down to one off observations where a teacher puts on a good show- that is not rigerous.
Anyway I have also said that I agree that identifying the bad teachers probably isn't the problem - I am sure most heads can do that - Its what they are able to do about it, either due to them not improving when helped to do so, the system not making it possible to remove them or lack or alternatives in the staff available. More good teachers are needed to replace the very concerning number of mediocre teachers about. But I understand that isn't happening due to many of the reasons already outlined - pay and conditions. I am not on here to slate good teachers - they do an amazing job. I am concerned about how many indifferent or lazy teachers there are and the lack of ability for schools to do anything about it which results in a poorer education for our kids. It surely makes sense that any decent parent will choose the school - and by definition the teachers - they think are the best able to provide the education for their child(ren) they believe most suitable. And one way of assessing this is by the general level of results that those teachers (and therefore schools) achieve as this is what gets them first jobs and uni places. That goes alongside the ability to think critically, an interest and willingness to learn, a sense of responsibility for their own futures, a broader understanding of social skills etc etc etc |
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