Re: education system
 

I stand corrected. Please tell me how you measure a child's critical thinking skills and understanding of how to learn without any form of testing. I'm glad that yours has been a happy experience, unfortunately, for us, it has not.

Re: education system
 

Have you looked at Stormanston Catholic College which is due to open in 2011? I thought they gave a very impressive presentation at the recent public meeting; at least they will have a formal curriculum as the students will sit the International Baccalaureate.

Re: education system
 

It's due to be implemented from 2011.

http://www.alp.org.au/media/1008/msed120.php

We shall see.....

Re: education system
 

Naplan (QLD) have confirmed that only state and national data are published. They say you need to ask schools indiviually for school or class data and that it may be published in their annual reports due soon. - as expected really.

Re: education system
 

Why do you need testing? Testing does not improve learning.

I'm sure a great deal of formative assessment is going on in the classroom to allow children to progress, just because a number is not generated at the end of it does not mean assessment is not occurring.

Unfortunately in the UK people have lost any faith in the professionals educating their children, forgetting that they have undergone years of university and are the experts in this field. The government is I feel mostly to blame for this with the increased demands for 'accountability' and putting across the idea that teachers cannot be trusted to be honest- e.g. all assessment being external or moderated.

In Oz a greater degree of that trust remains, which allows children to actually be educated rather than taught how to pass the next in an endless series of exams, the results of which will be published for everyone to pour over completely out of context.

Re: education system
 

I know someone who taught at St Peters for many years. He said it is a great school but advised me to send my kids state (as I have a good state school nearby Kenmore High). He did not believe the difference in education warranted the cost and said some of the other private schools he'd taught as a supply teacher were absolutely awful (in particular BBC).

The great thing about St Peters is it is, I believe, the only top tier private co-ed school. :)

Re: education system
 

I often wonder how we (who were educated in the UK during the 1950s, 60s, 70s and 80s) ever managed to learn to read and write.

We had no SATs, no NAPLAN tests, no nothing. The only public exam that some of us took was the 11+. There were no public statistics produced to rate our schools, our teachers and our progress. How on earth did we and our parents manage? Poor teachers - must have been like trying to teach with one hand tied behind their backs.

I guess we just have to accept that we're all stuffed educationally, because none of us know which percentile for numeracy we fell into at age 9.

But more importantly - what on earth did our parents have to talk about? :rolleyes:

Re: education system
 

Testing does improve teaching and learning if it is done correctly.

On the issue of trust - I'd say that it was being abused on the part of the schools in certain (many?) circumstances.

The trouble with this debate is that it is turning into a UK vs Aus debate. Both systems are at opposite ends of the spectrum on testing and accountability - the UK does too much (or did do), Australia, too little.

Re: education system
 

I would wholeheartedly concur with that point.

Re: education system
 

How exactly does testing improve learning? Summative assessment by it's very nature only assesses what has been learnt.

Now formative assessment is a different matter, but that wouldn't be termed testing.

I do actually agree that there is slightly too little assessment in Oz- for instance there should be some sort of qualification at the end of year 10, i.e. before the end of compulsory schooling.

Re: education system
 

Do you not have an equivalent of the School Certificate in Victoria?
http://www.boardofstudies.nsw.edu.au.../sc_intro.html

Re: education system
 

Oh No. I have now lost all confidence in my abilities, now that I understand true educatioin! (see, even my spellingb has goit stuffed!)

Re: education system
 

Nope, just the VCE at the end of year 12 (or VET or VCAL for vocational studies) if they leave before the end of school they get nowt.

Re: education system
 

I think that the national assessments in years 5, 7 and 9, together with the normal day to day assessing, are about enough for the teachers to have a guide.
It is much more than we got, when we were kids in school.

For those in NSW, have a look at this forum (Year 10 - School Certificate), where loads of students are discussing the exams for the year 10 school certificate.

NSW & ACT both have the Year 10 School Certificate.

Re: education system
 

Well that is simple....kids that can research...evaluate...formulate and present ideas in verbal and written form have more chance of success in the long term than kids that are educated by rote learning...look at the scandanavian system...formal schooling starts at 7 and they achieve well...the years between 6 and 12 should be formative and not test based education that is how it runs in Scandinavia and from our experience how it works here in Australia. It doesnt matter if your kids are doing complex fractions by the time they are 9 the nurturing of learning and the desire to learn should be paramount.
National standardisation with set curricula and set testing has been shown to be non beneficial. There are some studies that show Australian kids by the age of 14 are way ahead of their UK counterparts...and yes i agree many variables involved in those studies but that is what your after a comparison.