MikeStanton

To quote podgypossum:

So there you have it Vanishing Dragon...... another prime example of what you get when you make a positive thread

anya4oz

You can tell you live in SE England!

So do I. The problem is that there are *way* too many people here, and the Herd Instinct means that they all want to shop/commute/eat out etc all at the same time. There simply isn't the space for us all to do that, now!

Here in Cambridge (which used to be a truly beautful city & a great place to live):

- we have frequent power outages because the local supply can't cope with the massive expansion of homes/businesses in the city
- you need to book 4-6 weeks in advance for a meal in a 'decent' restaurant
- it routinely takes 50-70 minutes to drive 5 miles at rush hour
- our train service (which used to get us to London reliably in 48 minutes) can now take anything between 1 hour and 2.5 hours (the latter more ofen at rush hour)
- to park the car for a day'sshopping in Cambridge costs nearly 30 GBP (oh, and you have a high chance of getting your car broken into/vandalised/peed over in the parking lot)
- the traffic lines for Tescos on Saturday often stretch 2-3 miles down the motorway (lines at the tills on busy Saturdays are generally 20-40 mins long)
- a tiny 1-bed flat starts at 120,000 GBP, with 2-up-2-down terraces costing 200K+ (so anyone earning less than about 40000K GBP/pa is effectively excluded from the local housing market - and has to live way out of town & spend time/money commuting in. This means that getting people for lower paid jobs - eg shop assistants - is well nigh impossible.)
- the crime rate & number of drug addicts sleeping rough & roaming the city (often violently harassing people for money) have both increased beyond all measure in the last 2 years.
- about 120,000 new homes are planned to be built in the region (I think by 2010?)
- the typical going rate for domestic cleaning services is 12-15/hour!!!

Anyone wanna buy my house, btw?

OK, I may have to put up with some/all of these things in Oz, but the fact is I'm sick *to my guts* of having to put up with them here!

As I've said many times about the issue of terrorism: these days, you are just as likely to get blown up by terrorists anywhere in the world, but if it's gonna happen anyway, why not let it happen somewhere new & different where the sun shines and eating out is cheaper? Same rules apply for where you choose to live....

Anya.

podgypossum

btw...

Vanishing Dragon...i was gonna shorten your name to your initials when typing to you .......but thought better of it!!!

dotty

Serious question, if there are so many illegal/and legal immigrants why are people paying 15 quid an hour for a cleaning lady
Or why cant they get assistants in Tescos? That puzzled me in London too. Or do they get housed in the poorer areas?

anya4oz

Dotty, I can never get to grips with that comundrum, either. I actually offered a begging girl some cleaning work (10/hour cash) last year, and I offered a begging guy with a dog the chance to come & dig my yard (same money).

I felt sorry for them, needed some work done, and wanted to help by going them the self-respect of earning money raher than begging for it. Both swore at me for my pains (and the girl spat at me, which I found quite upsetting), but could not tell me why my offer of work was so offensive to them.

The beggars here can do well - 150-200+ GBP on a good day, from the US & Japanese tourists, so I guess why bother digging my yard & having to *work* for it. Of course, I would like to think they were carefully saving their ill gotten gains in a high interest savings account, but I suspect it all goes on drugs Actually, it breaks my heart that people have to live like that.

The hourly rate for cleaners is partly due to the fact that they can't afford to live locally, so have to drive a long way to get to thier work (so have to run a car) and, if working in Central Camtrdge, pay high parking costs too.

Most of the assisants in our Tescos now are students doing shift work (I always chat with a nice checkout gal who's doing a PhD in disases of the brain). The biggest problem is getting staff to serve at the stores in Central Cambridge (M&S etc) due to the lnog commutes & high parking charges.

It's a well known problem here, & is why a good secretary prepared to work in central Cambridge gets paid 20-25K pa.

Anya.

Pollyana

Anya, its not just Cambridge (as you probably realise) - my brother (with whom I have absolutely no contact now, thank goodness) used to sit outside Sainsburys in Bath begging. He had the dog on a bit of string - very thin dog, so people gave him lots of money and food for it. My dad said people often offered him odd jobs, and a couple of times he was offered "proper" jobs, but he did better outside Sainsburys, and then in the evenings outside the Bath theatres. Mainly US & Japanese tourists there again, and he used to regularly make £200 a day......and we are talking 6-7 years ago. Rent paid by the DSS, 2 mates also paying him rent for his spare room, dole money flowing in nicely as well.
And yes, most of the cash went on drugs.

Pants

PP

I agree with you on many points and I also agree with Dotty. I have seen many people post pretty nasty comments about us in the "moving back to UK". I take offence as they know nothing about my circumstances. With that I like to think that I don't make easy assumptions and judgements on others who are deciding to move to OZ. Of course my comment about you not liking me was actually meant tongue in cheek. !! Not to offend I hope.!!

Each country has it's own problems and it does depend on where you live as to how it will affect you. My hubby being an Aussie was pretty negative about many things in the Uk but now he can't wait to get back. His reasons are also different from mine but at least it's what we BOTH WANT. Having a young family we both feel like we need more "family" support. We don't have that here. My hubby wants to travel Europe...etc etc...all very much what we want out of life at the moment. Says it all doesn't it.

I hope it all works out for you PP and so many others who are planning to come to OZ.Unhappiness...we have both had it for similar reasons it seems.Perhaps we could think of a plan to get rid of them eh !!Most likely start up another row with someone ?? honestly I didn't do it officer......lie lie!!!

I will keep Adelaide in mind for a visit...judging by your birthday pics I reckon we would get along just doodle dandy !!

Take care and stay happy..

Pants

dibrucewillis

Having just returned from a validation trip in oz I found myself asking this same question to a lot of the poms that I met whilst there.

Some of the reactions I got were "Well if we wanted to go back to the UK we wouldn't be able to afford to go back" mainly referring to the boom in the housing market.
They would be giving up 4 bed,2 bath home(which seems to be the norm out there) for maybe a terraced or 3 bed property here in the UK.

Some people just gave me straight "No, no way would they return" and they wasn't even bothered about coming back for a holiday.

What I did find whilst talking to people was that they blamed the move to Oz for causing problems with their marriages and also for causing people to get very depressed (I was surprised at the number of people that were taking anti depressants) .

I was only there for 3 weeks but I was surprised at the number of different reactions that i heard.
I felt that a lot of people were there for their kids and were sticking it out for that reason and at the end of the day we all want was it best for our kids but I also wonder how much unhappiness this was causing to some of the parents and subsuequently what affect this could have on their relationships.
That is just my personal opinion.

Di

anya4oz

Di, many interesting impressions there.

I do wonder about this whole business of endemic relationship breakups and depression. Maybe it is more because of the pressures of our Western-style societies, which, let's face it, is so focused around stress, long working hours, over-achieving and competitiveness, which does not leave much time for 'fun' any more. I guess many people think moving to Oz will 'fix' those problems, but I'm sure Oz has the same elements of Western materialism and loneliness that you get in the UK.

People I know in the US, Canada, NZ, Oz, UK, Germany, Holland, and France all complain about the pressures of life, and feeling stressed, miserable and depressed. They say that sometimes, it seems, everyone they know is splitting up with their partners. So it's not just the UK/Oz that has these problems!

I think the bottom line is that moving to Oz is NOT a fix for people's personal probelms - it is a very tough challenge and it's not for everyone. For some, it's the best thing they've ever done, for others it's a nightmare. Neither set of people is 'right' or 'wrong': where one chooses to settle is such a personal thing and there is no 'one size fits all' on this one.

I guess you have to really work at the move to Oz to make it work, like you have to work at your relationship. It's never gonna be easy!

Anya.

Pants

Thanks Di

Personally because I have no family here of my own and my hubby's family have NEVER accepted me( he's an Aussie) I do feel that we have been put under an even bigger amount of pressure than normal. Family rows, isolation etc etc...Without going into details I think we have both felt the marriage could break due to this. I could stay here for my daughter but I would end up a very unhappy mother and to me it's not worth it. I want to be a happier wife and happier mother therefore back home amongst family and friends suits us fine. Maybe one day we will return who knows !!
The good thing is that with all this pressure we have worked through all the pooh and are closer now.
We feel we need to make that move back to the UK now whilst we can afford it and whilst we have not been away too long. I know others are not as fortunate. Our choice !!

dibrucewillis

I got the impression that some people are aware that their relationships are on the verge of the collapse (whether this be caused by the whole immigration process I am not sure) but I am sure that if these people could afford it they would make the move back to the UK to see if this would be the solution to solving their unhappiness and saving their marriages .

Di

Badge

I still abhor the double standards on this forum as both myself and PP have mentioned. (In this forum and others).

As for you Dotty mate, I think you are one of the most misunderstood people on this forum. There are many out to wind people up and many who genuinely resent their lives in Australia.

I can see you are a realist, and very much tongue in cheek - but I think some take your comments too seriously. And then get upset ;-)

To an extent, disagree with this. Some people have a fairly good idea I think, sometimes you seem to label everyone as not knowing, as you launch in to the rose tinted yadda yadda at every opportunity.

Dotty I sometimes feel you like Australia better than you let on - we all know you do 'OK', and now doing well in Australia has allowed you to be able to go and buy that huge house in the UK with a flat in London - how many UKers (or returnees) can do that?

Dotty you do OK, mate, but like others a tad condescending occasionally which is the only thing on this forum that gets to me - not just you, a general thing. We're all sick of the rose tinted accusation. Me personally, I like Australia, and fit in well. i remember you saying months ago that I would do well in Australia. At the time, I took it as a compliment, and thought ha-ha - approval. You probably have me sussed.

Cheers

;-)

oldtimer

We have been here less than a year ,but having travelled over a great deal of the worldwe feel that Australia is the best place we
have ever been to ! Every day is like a holiday to us - people are the friendliest you will meet anywhere - generous, helpful and rightfully proud of their country ! We would never wish to live anywhere else - no relatives or friends here (sorry , I should say we have loads of friends now -more than we ever had in U.K.)

pompeywill

Well we love it here in Perth, so much so we bought a house today!! Hurrah.
and we dont even have our visa's yet

podgypossum

How did you manage that??... i thought you werent allowed to buy property until you had your PR visa