Do you think Aboriginals should be allowed to spear each other?
Jul 30th 2008, 7:40 pm
#61
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Re: Do you think Aboriginals should be allowed to spear each other?
The law of the land should apply to each and every one of us. I dont think that we should accept "Tribal Law" just because it served well for thousands of years before white man came to this land. We are a civilised society so we should behave as one. If one cannot accept these laws of the land and breaks these laws, then expect to be treated through our judicial system.
If we were to accept "Tribal Law", just where would we draw the line. Witches were burned at the stake not to far back into anglo saxon history.
Barney
If we were to accept "Tribal Law", just where would we draw the line. Witches were burned at the stake not to far back into anglo saxon history.
Barney
Jul 30th 2008, 7:49 pm
#62
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Re: Do you think Aboriginals should be allowed to spear each other?
In summary, the differences between Aboriginal and European law are vast. Aboriginal law relies on the principal of ’swift justice’, which, for serious crimes and offender is often physically harmed. This type of justice has been around for over 40,000 years. In contrast, European law believes that isolation from the community for an extended period of time is justice rather than punishment. Physical punishment is not an accepted tradition. However, because European law is entrenched within in the Australian constitution it is practiced as the sovereign law in Australia. To avoid a clash of cultures the most viable solution is to incorporate parts of traditional Aboriginal law into sentencing, where it is appropriate e.g. (Aboriginal offender, who has strong cultural ties).
Again thanks for taking the time.
Jul 30th 2008, 9:46 pm
#63
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Re: Do you think Aboriginals should be allowed to spear each other?
Here's my anecdotal experience, FWIW...
I had Aboriginal neighbours across the road from me when I lived in Midvale (WA). Two families in a big brick duplex. There were other Aboriginal families in the neighbourhood.
Walk into Midland and you would usually see a small group sitting on the grass verge outside the old library. Sometimes drinking; sometimes just soaking up the sun. Normally quiet, but occasionally abusive.
I have uncomfortable memories of being on a Perthbound train from Midland with an Aboriginal teenager leaning heavily against me as he surreptitiously sniffed his way into oblivion. The fumes were eye-wateringly powerful.
There are plenty of Aboriginal people connected to society in Perth. The problem is how they're connected, and to what extent.
I had Aboriginal neighbours across the road from me when I lived in Midvale (WA). Two families in a big brick duplex. There were other Aboriginal families in the neighbourhood.
Walk into Midland and you would usually see a small group sitting on the grass verge outside the old library. Sometimes drinking; sometimes just soaking up the sun. Normally quiet, but occasionally abusive.
I have uncomfortable memories of being on a Perthbound train from Midland with an Aboriginal teenager leaning heavily against me as he surreptitiously sniffed his way into oblivion. The fumes were eye-wateringly powerful.
There are plenty of Aboriginal people connected to society in Perth. The problem is how they're connected, and to what extent.
Jul 30th 2008, 9:47 pm
#64
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Re: Do you think Aboriginals should be allowed to spear each other?
Thanks for that. It is worth reading and the summary is quite good. I don't believe its viable as a solution but makes a fair argument which could be used in some cases in sentencing. Others not so. Therein lies the problem that is for better men than me to ponder the answer.
Again thanks for taking the time.
Again thanks for taking the time.
Jul 31st 2008, 12:59 am
#65
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Re: Do you think Aboriginals should be allowed to spear each other?
Jul 31st 2008, 10:33 am
#66
Joined: Jun 2006
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Re: Do you think Aboriginals should be allowed to spear each other?
Was it unlawful because of the age as I cannot see anything about a lack of consent which would imply rape? How old was the bloke? Important context whatever the culture. I am not saying what went on was right but consensual sex between as 18 year old and a 15 year old is rather different than forced marriage and unconsensual sex with an older man. Maybe I am blind but I could not see that context in the article.
Whilst the case you have identified is potentially horrible the widespread reported cases of abuse of all ages from infants upwards is utterly sickening and is in no way part of the traditional culture. The abuse is so endemic in some communities that 12 and 13 year old boys who were abused see the practise as normal and carry on the circle of violence and abuse.
Whilst the case you have identified is potentially horrible the widespread reported cases of abuse of all ages from infants upwards is utterly sickening and is in no way part of the traditional culture. The abuse is so endemic in some communities that 12 and 13 year old boys who were abused see the practise as normal and carry on the circle of violence and abuse.
Child abuse qua child abuse is not a traditional practice, correct. But certain traditional practices constitute child abuse. Even Kim67's post above has referred to the permission of underage sex with promised brides. This is not an anomaly; it's an accepted traditional practice in some areas.
ARK COLVIN: There's been another swing of the pendulum today in the long debate on the relative merits of Aboriginal customary law and the broader legal system. At issue, the rights of men in tribal society to take underage "promised brides", versus the rights of the young women subjected to the marriages.
The Northern Territory Court of Appeal has set aside a 24-hour sentence on a traditional Aboriginal man for unlawful sexual intercourse with a 15-year old and given him a month in gaol instead. Now, lawyers for the man, Jackie Pascoe Jamilmira are considering appealing to the High Court.
Anne Barker reports.
ANNE BARKER: Under traditional Aboriginal law, Jackie Pascoe Jamilmira had every right to sexual relations to a fifteen-year old girl promised to him in marriage. But under Australian law, the girl was underage, and consenting or not, their sexual relationship was a jailable offense.
Pascoe was originally sentenced to 13 months in prison, but the Supreme Court later cut the sentence to 24 hours in recognition that Pascoe was exercising his rights under traditional law. Now, the Court of Appeal has ruled that sentence was manifestly inadequate and re-sentenced him to 12 months gaol, to be suspended after one month.
The decision sends a clear message that Australian law will over-rule customary law when Aboriginal men take child brides, and it highlights the difficulties in accommodating traditional law within the broader legal system, an issue the Northern Territory Government is already reviewing.
Pascoe's lawyer Gerard Bryant is now considering a High Court appeal.
GERARD BRYANT: From our perspective, insufficient weight was given to traditional and customary law, and certainly in Mr Pascoe's eyes, the decision has disgraced his law and he's of the belief that white man doesn't understand black law.
Source.
Rape an underage girl, and if the circumstances are right, tribal law could be your defence. It all depends on whether or not she was was promised to you.
If she was, she's fair game.
ARK COLVIN: There's been another swing of the pendulum today in the long debate on the relative merits of Aboriginal customary law and the broader legal system. At issue, the rights of men in tribal society to take underage "promised brides", versus the rights of the young women subjected to the marriages.
The Northern Territory Court of Appeal has set aside a 24-hour sentence on a traditional Aboriginal man for unlawful sexual intercourse with a 15-year old and given him a month in gaol instead. Now, lawyers for the man, Jackie Pascoe Jamilmira are considering appealing to the High Court.
Anne Barker reports.
ANNE BARKER: Under traditional Aboriginal law, Jackie Pascoe Jamilmira had every right to sexual relations to a fifteen-year old girl promised to him in marriage. But under Australian law, the girl was underage, and consenting or not, their sexual relationship was a jailable offense.
Pascoe was originally sentenced to 13 months in prison, but the Supreme Court later cut the sentence to 24 hours in recognition that Pascoe was exercising his rights under traditional law. Now, the Court of Appeal has ruled that sentence was manifestly inadequate and re-sentenced him to 12 months gaol, to be suspended after one month.
The decision sends a clear message that Australian law will over-rule customary law when Aboriginal men take child brides, and it highlights the difficulties in accommodating traditional law within the broader legal system, an issue the Northern Territory Government is already reviewing.
Pascoe's lawyer Gerard Bryant is now considering a High Court appeal.
GERARD BRYANT: From our perspective, insufficient weight was given to traditional and customary law, and certainly in Mr Pascoe's eyes, the decision has disgraced his law and he's of the belief that white man doesn't understand black law.
Rape an underage girl, and if the circumstances are right, tribal law could be your defence. It all depends on whether or not she was was promised to you.
If she was, she's fair game.
Jul 31st 2008, 10:44 am
#67
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Re: Do you think Aboriginals should be allowed to spear each other?
Was it unlawful because of the age as I cannot see anything about a lack of consent which would imply rape? How old was the bloke? Important context whatever the culture. I am not saying what went on was right but consensual sex between as 18 year old and a 15 year old is rather different than forced marriage and unconsensual sex with an older man. Maybe I am blind but I could not see that context in the article.
He was 50.
