Crucial Questions
Oct 22nd 2003, 7:33 am
#16
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Originally posted by Olibeneli
So it's all the immigrants getting sick then !!!!!
So it's all the immigrants getting sick then !!!!!
And I guess Jews must be the rulers of the world by proxy too.
Peter
Oct 22nd 2003, 7:46 am
#17
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My friend is an Accountant working in Sydney.
I think generally that Accountants do worse here than in the UK because there seems to be less demand + it is not viewed as such a high profile job as in the UK, My friend works for one of the big 4 and puts in some long hours.
No insults but I found in general the amount you get paid in the UK is inversely proprtional to how usefull you are to society, eg highly paid people are Salesmen, Estate Agents, Marketing Consultants, Secretaries and Receptionists working in London, Advertising Professionals.
The poorly paid are Teachers, Nurses, Product Designers, Ambulance Drivers etc.
I think that the main reasons for this is because of Britain's class system and reliance on North Sea oil for revenue.
In general the standard of living is higher in Australia than the UK - the lower paid workers earn more than in the UK but some upper paid workers get less.
I think generally that Accountants do worse here than in the UK because there seems to be less demand + it is not viewed as such a high profile job as in the UK, My friend works for one of the big 4 and puts in some long hours.
No insults but I found in general the amount you get paid in the UK is inversely proprtional to how usefull you are to society, eg highly paid people are Salesmen, Estate Agents, Marketing Consultants, Secretaries and Receptionists working in London, Advertising Professionals.
The poorly paid are Teachers, Nurses, Product Designers, Ambulance Drivers etc.
I think that the main reasons for this is because of Britain's class system and reliance on North Sea oil for revenue.
In general the standard of living is higher in Australia than the UK - the lower paid workers earn more than in the UK but some upper paid workers get less.
Oct 22nd 2003, 7:54 am
#18
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Originally posted by Goodpubmisser
My friend is an Accountant working in Sydney.
I think generally that Accountants do worse here than in the UK because there seems to be less demand + it is not viewed as such a high profile job as in the UK, My friend works for one of the big 4 and puts in some long hours.
No insults but I found in general the amount you get paid in the UK is inversely proprtional to how usefull you are to society, eg highly paid people are Salesmen, Estate Agents, Marketing Consultants, Secretaries and Receptionists working in London, Advertising Professionals.
The poorly paid are Teachers, Nurses, Product Designers, Ambulance Drivers etc.
I think that the main reasons for this is because of Britain's class system and reliance on North Sea oil for revenue.
In general the standard of living is higher in Australia than the UK - the lower paid workers earn more than in the UK but some upper paid workers get less.
My friend is an Accountant working in Sydney.
I think generally that Accountants do worse here than in the UK because there seems to be less demand + it is not viewed as such a high profile job as in the UK, My friend works for one of the big 4 and puts in some long hours.
No insults but I found in general the amount you get paid in the UK is inversely proprtional to how usefull you are to society, eg highly paid people are Salesmen, Estate Agents, Marketing Consultants, Secretaries and Receptionists working in London, Advertising Professionals.
The poorly paid are Teachers, Nurses, Product Designers, Ambulance Drivers etc.
I think that the main reasons for this is because of Britain's class system and reliance on North Sea oil for revenue.
In general the standard of living is higher in Australia than the UK - the lower paid workers earn more than in the UK but some upper paid workers get less.
Oct 22nd 2003, 8:13 am
#19
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Originally posted by downunderpom
Over the last year we've kept an eye on what we call 'buying power', i.e. what it costs to live compared to the UK. This being because of the massive drop in income I took in order to come out here - something in the region of 50-70% - meant a reassesment of what was important. I have my own reasons for being willing (even happy) to take this hit, so it's not an issue.
What we've found is that the 'buying power' here in Sydney equates to approximately $2 to the pound. What I mean by that is that a grocery bill of 100 GBP will be $200 here. Some things are cheaper, like meat (I got 750 grams of lean topside steak for less than $10 on Saturday), and petrol (currently under 90c a litre in Sydney, so call it 37.5p by the exchange rate, or 45p in 'buying power'.) Some things are more expensive. We currently pay $220 a week for a 2 bed townhouse (renting unfurnished). In the UK, we had exactly the same (2 bed terrace) for which we paid 675GBP per month. In buying power our rent is 476.66 GBP equivalent, whereas if I converted at $2.40 to the GBP it would seem to be 397.22GBP. I look at it as 476.66, because that's the chunk of my buying power it takes to rent each calendar month.
We feel that this is a much better indicator of the standard of living you can expect than a straightforward exchange rate comparison. Hopefully an accountant will appreciate some numbers to get his teeth into!!
Over the last year we've kept an eye on what we call 'buying power', i.e. what it costs to live compared to the UK. This being because of the massive drop in income I took in order to come out here - something in the region of 50-70% - meant a reassesment of what was important. I have my own reasons for being willing (even happy) to take this hit, so it's not an issue.
What we've found is that the 'buying power' here in Sydney equates to approximately $2 to the pound. What I mean by that is that a grocery bill of 100 GBP will be $200 here. Some things are cheaper, like meat (I got 750 grams of lean topside steak for less than $10 on Saturday), and petrol (currently under 90c a litre in Sydney, so call it 37.5p by the exchange rate, or 45p in 'buying power'.) Some things are more expensive. We currently pay $220 a week for a 2 bed townhouse (renting unfurnished). In the UK, we had exactly the same (2 bed terrace) for which we paid 675GBP per month. In buying power our rent is 476.66 GBP equivalent, whereas if I converted at $2.40 to the GBP it would seem to be 397.22GBP. I look at it as 476.66, because that's the chunk of my buying power it takes to rent each calendar month.
We feel that this is a much better indicator of the standard of living you can expect than a straightforward exchange rate comparison. Hopefully an accountant will appreciate some numbers to get his teeth into!!
I can see where you are coming from.
It's hard to consider all these kind of things about cost of living (food, services, mortgage, travel, etc) between Oz and Uk yet also factor in lower wages.
Oct 22nd 2003, 8:15 am
#20
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Originally posted by ptlabs
And immigrants are criminals too I take it? They must be the drug addicts and uneducated as well?
And I guess Jews must be the rulers of the world by proxy too.
Peter
And immigrants are criminals too I take it? They must be the drug addicts and uneducated as well?
And I guess Jews must be the rulers of the world by proxy too.
Peter
My mail was not serious about the immigrants all being the sick ones..........
I hope everyone knows that I have a strong streak of humour and irony running through me............I have to have counting beans all day.
Oct 22nd 2003, 8:21 am
#21
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Originally posted by Goodpubmisser
My friend is an Accountant working in Sydney.
I think generally that Accountants do worse here than in the UK because there seems to be less demand + it is not viewed as such a high profile job as in the UK, My friend works for one of the big 4 and puts in some long hours.
No insults but I found in general the amount you get paid in the UK is inversely proprtional to how usefull you are to society, eg highly paid people are Salesmen, Estate Agents, Marketing Consultants, Secretaries and Receptionists working in London, Advertising Professionals.
The poorly paid are Teachers, Nurses, Product Designers, Ambulance Drivers etc.
I think that the main reasons for this is because of Britain's class system and reliance on North Sea oil for revenue.
In general the standard of living is higher in Australia than the UK - the lower paid workers earn more than in the UK but some upper paid workers get less.
My friend is an Accountant working in Sydney.
I think generally that Accountants do worse here than in the UK because there seems to be less demand + it is not viewed as such a high profile job as in the UK, My friend works for one of the big 4 and puts in some long hours.
No insults but I found in general the amount you get paid in the UK is inversely proprtional to how usefull you are to society, eg highly paid people are Salesmen, Estate Agents, Marketing Consultants, Secretaries and Receptionists working in London, Advertising Professionals.
The poorly paid are Teachers, Nurses, Product Designers, Ambulance Drivers etc.
I think that the main reasons for this is because of Britain's class system and reliance on North Sea oil for revenue.
In general the standard of living is higher in Australia than the UK - the lower paid workers earn more than in the UK but some upper paid workers get less.
I am in awe of what my wife does - midwife and sonographer - and she has to deal with joe public warts and all. She does a fabulous job for scant reward as do all her colleagues.
Your friend in Sydney - I guess he/she is Ozzie qualified accountant whereas I am UK qualified. I work in industry and that's my area of strength as opposed to serving the public.
I need to sound out the profession and where it's heading in Oz.....
I will also start a new thread on management consulting or financial systems consulting in SAP software as that's what I do most of the time. The big 4 firms out there may need folks like me and I need to find a contact for this sort of work as opposed to straight accounting - I left that behind years ago.
cheers
Oct 22nd 2003, 8:38 am
#22
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Originally posted by HiddenPaw
Oops - I didn't mean to alarm you with the water shortage thing - you CAN fill a pool in Melbourne, you just need a permit.
What are your primary reasons for wanting to come to Oz? If you identify these then it will help you decide whether emigrating is the right thing, and if so, where you should live. E.g. you want a pool, you've mentioned coming to Melbourne, but is the weather really important to you? If so, Melbourne is probably not the place. Don't get me wrong, we had a great summer last year, but the winter and spring have been very cold, windy and wet - if I had a pool I don't think I would have used it since last April or May! I still have the heating on in the house.
If earning power is of primary importance then you will probably need to head for the city - but then you have city cost of living to go with that. House prices are cheaper in Adelaide & Perth - but there will be fewer jobs to choose from (I moved to Mel instead of Adelaide because my job prospects were far better - would have loved the smaller city). $65k is not a bad salary in Oz - you would be in the higher tax bracket for starters. Your employer must pay 9% superannuation for you - some job ads quote this in their salary, some don't (in other words, $65k might actually be $59k salary + super). You would have a great start on your mortage with the money you have - you need to work out what, monthly repayments would be on say, a $300k mortgage and what chunk of your income that equates to, rather than worrying about what $65k is in £. Unless you're sending your salary back to the UK don't even bother to convert to £ - you'll be earning in $$ and spending in $$.
By the way, my accountant has just charged me $200 to do my tax return. Also $200 for my husband's. We were in and out of his office in less than an hour and in that time he got all the info keyed in and the return submitted there and then - $400 for an hours work is not bad in my eyes!!!!!
Oops - I didn't mean to alarm you with the water shortage thing - you CAN fill a pool in Melbourne, you just need a permit.
What are your primary reasons for wanting to come to Oz? If you identify these then it will help you decide whether emigrating is the right thing, and if so, where you should live. E.g. you want a pool, you've mentioned coming to Melbourne, but is the weather really important to you? If so, Melbourne is probably not the place. Don't get me wrong, we had a great summer last year, but the winter and spring have been very cold, windy and wet - if I had a pool I don't think I would have used it since last April or May! I still have the heating on in the house.
If earning power is of primary importance then you will probably need to head for the city - but then you have city cost of living to go with that. House prices are cheaper in Adelaide & Perth - but there will be fewer jobs to choose from (I moved to Mel instead of Adelaide because my job prospects were far better - would have loved the smaller city). $65k is not a bad salary in Oz - you would be in the higher tax bracket for starters. Your employer must pay 9% superannuation for you - some job ads quote this in their salary, some don't (in other words, $65k might actually be $59k salary + super). You would have a great start on your mortage with the money you have - you need to work out what, monthly repayments would be on say, a $300k mortgage and what chunk of your income that equates to, rather than worrying about what $65k is in £. Unless you're sending your salary back to the UK don't even bother to convert to £ - you'll be earning in $$ and spending in $$.
By the way, my accountant has just charged me $200 to do my tax return. Also $200 for my husband's. We were in and out of his office in less than an hour and in that time he got all the info keyed in and the return submitted there and then - $400 for an hours work is not bad in my eyes!!!!!
My main reasons are: (in no particular order)
(1)Utilise my house equity to buy a decent home in Oz and essentially try and live mortgage free until I retire
(2)Provide as good a standard of schooling as possible for my 3 boys (perhaps even private if I have little mortgage ?)
(3)Provide a lifestyle for my kids that is not what I see a lot of UK kids doing - hanging around street corners/McDonalds - giving them as many opportunities as possible (which is a worry when/if they got through a Oz college)
(4)Get a relatively decent/well paid job so that we can live in Oz in a better lifestyle compared to here - spend our hard earned cash enjoying ourselves rather than paying a mortgage
(5)Be outside more enjoying the sunshine and not indoors stopping kids arguing over a playstation game (could it be too hot for this ?)
(6)Play more golf
(7)Make sure my wife is rewarded for her skills better than here in the UK
I guess we all want this sort of thing or bits of it and some may more more achievable than others.
Anyone out there been in Oz for a while and can comment on prospects for kids (mine are 7 and 8 years old)
Cheers
Oct 22nd 2003, 8:54 am
#23
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If you want to move into the SAP area then I would suggest you think about the correct strategy to achieve this.
Following the 'fat 4' route has the disadvantage that they like to buy in resources at a low rate and sell at a high rate. Often relevant local knowledge is an advantage.
If you look to the second tier guys then they are often even more limited as to their remuneration levels. See point about fat 4.
Local industry may be a way to go depending on which industry you have experience in
There is quite a lot of competition for roles from people with 5 to 8 years experience with several firms looking off shore for esources and then enticing them to Oz on 2 year working visas (on low salaries) with promises of sponsorship for PR after a suitable qualifying time. :-)
Following the 'fat 4' route has the disadvantage that they like to buy in resources at a low rate and sell at a high rate. Often relevant local knowledge is an advantage.
If you look to the second tier guys then they are often even more limited as to their remuneration levels. See point about fat 4.
Local industry may be a way to go depending on which industry you have experience in
There is quite a lot of competition for roles from people with 5 to 8 years experience with several firms looking off shore for esources and then enticing them to Oz on 2 year working visas (on low salaries) with promises of sponsorship for PR after a suitable qualifying time. :-)
Oct 22nd 2003, 8:56 am
#24
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Well, latest stats in Oz are that one in 4 kids is obese and there are MacDonalds, KFC and other fast food outlets everywhere in Oz...so you won't escape that side of life. (Not that for one minute I blame MacDonalds for kids being fat and hanging round the streets!)
There are certainly plenty of outdoor activities for kids to partake in - e.g. cricket ovals and football (AFL) pitches in every suburb in Melbourne - the facilities are definately there for those who want to use them.
There are certainly plenty of outdoor activities for kids to partake in - e.g. cricket ovals and football (AFL) pitches in every suburb in Melbourne - the facilities are definately there for those who want to use them.
Oct 22nd 2003, 9:52 am
#25
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Originally posted by Iceblock
If you want to move into the SAP area then I would suggest you think about the correct strategy to achieve this.
Following the 'fat 4' route has the disadvantage that they like to buy in resources at a low rate and sell at a high rate. Often relevant local knowledge is an advantage.
If you look to the second tier guys then they are often even more limited as to their remuneration levels. See point about fat 4.
Local industry may be a way to go depending on which industry you have experience in
There is quite a lot of competition for roles from people with 5 to 8 years experience with several firms looking off shore for esources and then enticing them to Oz on 2 year working visas (on low salaries) with promises of sponsorship for PR after a suitable qualifying time. :-)
If you want to move into the SAP area then I would suggest you think about the correct strategy to achieve this.
Following the 'fat 4' route has the disadvantage that they like to buy in resources at a low rate and sell at a high rate. Often relevant local knowledge is an advantage.
If you look to the second tier guys then they are often even more limited as to their remuneration levels. See point about fat 4.
Local industry may be a way to go depending on which industry you have experience in
There is quite a lot of competition for roles from people with 5 to 8 years experience with several firms looking off shore for esources and then enticing them to Oz on 2 year working visas (on low salaries) with promises of sponsorship for PR after a suitable qualifying time. :-)
going off shore is happening here right now where I work.
Looking around me I could be sitting in Bangalore - we have done exactly what you described......shipped them in on very low pay.
Great strategy for the shareholders to cut costs....but hang on, then all UK employees get redundant, they need social which has to be paid for,......spiral out pof control effect.
....don't get me started.
Oct 22nd 2003, 10:02 am
#26
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Originally posted by Olibeneli
Thanks for this......
going off shore is happening here right now where I work.
Looking around me I could be sitting in Bangalore - we have done exactly what you described......shipped them in on very low pay.
Great strategy for the shareholders to cut costs....but hang on, then all UK employees get redundant, they need social which has to be paid for,......spiral out pof control effect.
....don't get me started.
Thanks for this......
going off shore is happening here right now where I work.
Looking around me I could be sitting in Bangalore - we have done exactly what you described......shipped them in on very low pay.
Great strategy for the shareholders to cut costs....but hang on, then all UK employees get redundant, they need social which has to be paid for,......spiral out pof control effect.
....don't get me started.
I work in IT and there are rumours abound of outsourcing. I speak to outsources support centres around the world every day. I have a feeling I will be off to school again next year.
What can the Government do? What instruments are there available to prevent the outflow.
The economy will change as people retrain. It is the way it has always been and will carry on being.
Oct 22nd 2003, 10:20 am
#27
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Originally posted by bondipom
Why shouldn't the Bengalis get the jobs? Shareholders will always cut costs so get used to it. Shares are what is going to pay our pensions. In todays dog eat dog world retraining is the only option. We have no choice but to just get on with it.
I work in IT and there are rumours abound of outsourcing. I speak to outsources support centres around the world every day. I have a feeling I will be off to school again next year.
What can the Government do? What instruments are there available to prevent the outflow.
The economy will change as people retrain. It is the way it has always been and will carry on being.
Why shouldn't the Bengalis get the jobs? Shareholders will always cut costs so get used to it. Shares are what is going to pay our pensions. In todays dog eat dog world retraining is the only option. We have no choice but to just get on with it.
I work in IT and there are rumours abound of outsourcing. I speak to outsources support centres around the world every day. I have a feeling I will be off to school again next year.
What can the Government do? What instruments are there available to prevent the outflow.
The economy will change as people retrain. It is the way it has always been and will carry on being.
I have a family to support, which means I can't afford to retrain myself - time and money. My employer also fails to invest in training for it's own staff prefering to buy in the skills from India as it is far cheaper in the long run.
Time to find a new employer.........
Don't get me wrong, this is the way of the world now yes.
Oct 22nd 2003, 10:29 am
#28
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,149
Originally posted by Olibeneli
I agree with this, but there is a catch 22 here....
I have a family to support, which means I can't afford to retrain myself - time and money. My employer also fails to invest in training for it's own staff prefering to buy in the skills from India as it is far cheaper in the long run.
Time to find a new employer.........
Don't get me wrong, this is the way of the world now yes.
I agree with this, but there is a catch 22 here....
I have a family to support, which means I can't afford to retrain myself - time and money. My employer also fails to invest in training for it's own staff prefering to buy in the skills from India as it is far cheaper in the long run.
Time to find a new employer.........
Don't get me wrong, this is the way of the world now yes.
Oct 22nd 2003, 10:41 am
#29
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Originally posted by bondipom
What can the Government do? What instruments are there available to prevent the outflow.
What can the Government do? What instruments are there available to prevent the outflow.
The govt's very own Telstra have outsourced many of their helpdesks to the Indian subcontinent. I find this very strange for a govt who has an ongoing campaign to 'buy Australian, keep jobs in Australia'.
From my own experience of IT outsourcing, cutting costs has had the result of drastically cutting quality. All that seems to matter is what looks good on the books.
Oct 22nd 2003, 10:45 am
#30
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Originally posted by Olibeneli
Understand your comments, but I don't expect to make a fortune or retire at 45 years old............
Sure, how can you measure sunshine and nice beaches.......but unfortunatley being me means I gotta work at just about the only thing I know and that has to come top of the list.
No job = no life outside work and I'd don't want to be a Pommie sponger in a strange place - especially Oz as I'd get eaten alive.
If my only work prospects in Oz put me in a place in society that equates in the UK to what I call border breadline then no amount of sunshine is gonna make up for it.
I wish I trained as a builder/painter/decorator/plasterer/electrician/plumber because it sounds like that's what Oz needs the most based on some threads here.
Where is the demand coming from for building work and the demand for health workers/nurses......as I asked, are Ozzies really that sick?
cheers
Understand your comments, but I don't expect to make a fortune or retire at 45 years old............
Sure, how can you measure sunshine and nice beaches.......but unfortunatley being me means I gotta work at just about the only thing I know and that has to come top of the list.
No job = no life outside work and I'd don't want to be a Pommie sponger in a strange place - especially Oz as I'd get eaten alive.
If my only work prospects in Oz put me in a place in society that equates in the UK to what I call border breadline then no amount of sunshine is gonna make up for it.
I wish I trained as a builder/painter/decorator/plasterer/electrician/plumber because it sounds like that's what Oz needs the most based on some threads here.
Where is the demand coming from for building work and the demand for health workers/nurses......as I asked, are Ozzies really that sick?
cheers
I personally don't think an accountant would be 'border breadline' in Australia but obviously the status of different occupations is going to be different in other countries. (I am Australian and I teach Accounting incidentally). I also agree with other comments that there is more to life than 'bread alone'. Just think of all those rounds of golf in sunny WA.
The demand for the trades people is coming from the hectic building activity and, like the UK, a long period of training too few trades people (and dare I say perhaps too many social workers, leisure and recreation people, IT specialists and perhaps even accountants).
I have been advising my pupils for at least the last decade that there are going to be shortages in the trades and this is where the large rises in income are going to be (for those who are interested of course - there is still this blue collar/white collar thing pushing people away from the trades though). Schools automatically pass on so many pupils into Higher Education now and so many are taking the soft options. My current pupils wouldn't even know where to begin if I was to give them an exam paper from the 1980's and yet I know that most of them are going to pass (with A's) the current exam and get into university.
There are also lots of business opportunities out there for anyone with a bit of entrepreneurial spirit. I have a friend in Scotland who is a trained electrician. He went into partnership a few years ago with a builder and a plumber to start a combined trades business. They now have 30 vans and 40 tradespeople on the road in a thinly populated rural area and are doing incredibly well. He tells me he can't get enough trained and skilled tradespeople, otherwise he would employ more - the work is there. In Oz someone started up some franchise operations based on the trades - Jim's mowing and 'Hire a hubby' are 2 I remember in Melbourne.
Just a few thoughts for what it's worth. 'You'll never know 'til you have a go' my father used to tell me!
Good luck
TennisOz