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COVID-19 / Coronavirus - Aus Govt Tracing App

COVID-19 / Coronavirus - Aus Govt Tracing App

Old Apr 22nd 2020, 1:28 am
  #16  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Exactly. And that's an awesome system to have in play.
How about questions of accuracy? Easy to relent to power. Harder to take back.
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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 1:41 am
  #17  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Nothing to do with me, me, me a common supposition of yours when one questions validity into various motives or proposed policy. For starters there is not the guarantee into just who will be able to access information, how long it will be stored and so on. Blind acceptance of government is seldom a good idea.
It will unlikely go far in stopping the virus, depending on take up of the app by the population. A country like Singapore, usually fairly compliant I would have thought to such matters, has itself, from my understanding, a very low take up rate of less than 20%. Speaks volumes in itself.

People in considerable numbers, have little faith in government doing necessary the right thing in modern times, as we witness on a regular basis around the world.
me, me, me is a common supposition of mine, and you just confirmed again above it's all about you.

If the app stops 1 further infection it's done it's job.

Thanks for pointing out Singapore. As you say it's take up was small and look where they are today. Total lockdown. Fighting the virus tooth and nail.

Just get on it and be part of the team to recovery.

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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 1:42 am
  #18  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
How about questions of accuracy? Easy to relent to power. Harder to take back.
You won't have anything to take back if you don't be a part of the solution to eradicate the virus.
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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 1:49 am
  #19  
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Default Re: COVID-19 / Coronavirus - Aus Govt Tracing App

Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
The point is that the approach used by google/apple is decentralised and the singapore one picked on by the aussie government is centralised, with them at the centre. That's why anyone who knows about this are noping out.

As it happens I looking into this general area a year or two back, for a different purpose, and it's a bit difficult to implement given how bluetooth works, and what apple do to mangle tracking.

And from where we are, it's pretty much a dead duck and pointless. Put the effort into contract tracing the old fashioned way and telling people to turn on location history in google would be more effective (most people have it turned on without knowing). You can then make it public and allow individuals to do concordance with their own data, and their own apps they trust.
Location history is not very inaccurate. For most part it can't even tell you the exact route you took to street level and gives you a direct path mapping between 2 points.

Bluetooth doesn't care nor can track where you are located. It just wants to know who you are in the vinicity of. This is much more appropriate for human to human tracking and leaves out the location tracking for the conspiracy theorists.
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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 2:09 am
  #20  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
me, me, me is a common supposition of mine, and you just confirmed again above it's all about you.

If the app stops 1 further infection it's done it's job.

Thanks for pointing out Singapore. As you say it's take up was small and look where they are today. Total lockdown. Fighting the virus tooth and nail.

Just get on it and be part of the team to recovery.
Singapore was held up as an example until recently. Again, you miss the point. If a nation, as obedient and conservative as Singapore, refuses to take up the app,Little hope Australia will do so, making the conversation around it redundant as will never get off the ground. People have a sound reason to be suspicious and it did sound like some voices wanting it to be mandatory, at least in the earlier days when having this app was raised. Not hard to see though the questions it would have raised in and with Australia, if such a measure had been introduced. Especially as Singapore didn't even attempt such an exercise in authoritarianism. Accuracy as I mentioned is another issue to ponder. Not an app that I'll be taking up anyway.



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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 2:14 am
  #21  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

5G is the cause of C19
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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 2:59 am
  #22  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Just remember the saying, "never let a crisis go to waste". All too many will be looking at ways to gain in economic and power and influence in such times. A population beaten into a degree of submission through loss of income or reduced means, sans normal human interaction, fearful of the future, may well consent to things they may well in more normal times be more reflective about.
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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 3:33 am
  #23  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Singapore was held up as an example until recently. Again, you miss the point. If a nation, as obedient and conservative as Singapore, refuses to take up the app,Little hope Australia will do so, making the conversation around it redundant as will never get off the ground. People have a sound reason to be suspicious and it did sound like some voices wanting it to be mandatory, at least in the earlier days when having this app was raised. Not hard to see though the questions it would have raised in and with Australia, if such a measure had been introduced. Especially as Singapore didn't even attempt such an exercise in authoritarianism. Accuracy as I mentioned is another issue to ponder. Not an app that I'll be taking up anyway.
The major problem for these apps comes from the sheepies - those iphone users. For starters, the crappy iPhone doesn't allow bluetooth apps to work in the background. Given Apple now only has 13% of the global market share, its still worth perusing for many countries where Android is the norm. In Singapore that counts out 34% of the market. In Australia its about 40% of the market. Bluetooth is also a battery hog on the iphone.

Singapore does mandate the use of the app for an infected person but it does not for others. I find Singaporeans, whilst respecting their government, won't do a single thing unless its a rule.

We have been pretty good in Australia policing ourselves. There is not a full lock down and most people are pretty cautious about maintaining social distancing and hygiene which has been shown in the figures. The government have dangled a 3 part carrot to get out of lockdown. Expanding tracing is one of them.

Again you refer to you, "Not an app that I'll be taking up anyway" . This whole episode is about all of us.

If you aren't a sheepie, and don't have an iphone, just jump on board for the sake of everyone else.

It doesn't need everyone to have the app for it to be successful, the more the better obviously.



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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 3:49 am
  #24  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
I am not concerned about privacy.
I am.
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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 4:07 am
  #25  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by abner View Post
I am.
The government have bigger and better things to worry about than what's on your phone. They already know whats in your bank account, what you get paid, where you live, etc and other than taking their share of your tax, that's about the limit of their concern towards you. As individuals we aren't really that important.
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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 4:12 am
  #26  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
As individuals we aren't really that important.
Your view, not mine.
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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 7:20 am
  #27  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
The major problem for these apps comes from the sheepies - those iphone users. For starters, the crappy iPhone doesn't allow bluetooth apps to work in the background. Given Apple now only has 13% of the global market share, its still worth perusing for many countries where Android is the norm. In Singapore that counts out 34% of the market. In Australia its about 40% of the market. Bluetooth is also a battery hog on the iphone.

Singapore does mandate the use of the app for an infected person but it does not for others. I find Singaporeans, whilst respecting their government, won't do a single thing unless its a rule.

We have been pretty good in Australia policing ourselves. There is not a full lock down and most people are pretty cautious about maintaining social distancing and hygiene which has been shown in the figures. The government have dangled a 3 part carrot to get out of lockdown. Expanding tracing is one of them.

Again you refer to you, "Not an app that I'll be taking up anyway" . This whole episode is about all of us.

If you aren't a sheepie, and don't have an iphone, just jump on board for the sake of everyone else.

It doesn't need everyone to have the app for it to be successful, the more the better obviously.
The sheepie's being the ones that don't ask questions nor ponder longer term consequences. Until the questions I posed get a satisfactory answer thee is no chance of my participation. It will require a considerable majority to be of any use anyway. Something unlikely to achieve I would have thought.
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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 7:24 am
  #28  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by abner View Post
Your view, not mine.
Neither mine. Don't give up anymore control to government than the ample they already possess. No one knows further down the road, just how such information may be misused.
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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 7:55 am
  #29  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Neither mine. Don't give up anymore control to government than the ample they already possess. No one knows further down the road, just how such information may be misused.
I'm well aware.

In my quasi-public-sector workplace, we've been issued work phones, supposedly under strict guidelines that prohibit tracking us outside work hours. We've already seen one person fired for misrepresenting where they were outside work hours, with no countervailing consequences for the breach of the tracking protocol. The person fired was an idiot, but the episode was a useful lesson for the rest of us.

My work phone has a permanent "battery-dead" problem as a result.
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Old Apr 22nd 2020, 10:29 am
  #30  
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Default Re: The government's new, almost-ready, contact tracing app...?

Originally Posted by abner View Post
I'm well aware.

In my quasi-public-sector workplace, we've been issued work phones, supposedly under strict guidelines that prohibit tracking us outside work hours. We've already seen one person fired for misrepresenting where they were outside work hours, with no countervailing consequences for the breach of the tracking protocol. The person fired was an idiot, but the episode was a useful lesson for the rest of us.

My work phone has a permanent "battery-dead" problem as a result.
Can you get to the detail?
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