ozzieeagle

Actually it does, there are less people far worse off than you here, and the higher income earners are miners, miles away from the state capitals ...Ergo from a wages perspective a totally different ball game. Far more likely to find lots of tradies here, earning more than the traditional people that work in City jobs in the UK.

So to the OP, be prepared for cultural wages shock.

old.sparkles

Really - £54k doesn't go that far in London.

ozzieeagle

Yes I know, however there are a lot of poor people in London as well... Far less here.... Then the other side of the coin, you dont get that many people out of London that are big income earners, whereas here, outside of Sydney is where the big earners are... Way out in woop woop usually.



.

NickyC

I believe it is only housing that's more expensive in Sydney. Everything else, groceries, bills, petrol etc, would be much the same in all capital cities - though I'd expect that some items would be more expensive in Perth or Hobart due to transport costs.

50% of the population of Sydney earn less than the median income, after all, so there are an awful lot of people who are not high-earners.

paddyo

There are a lot of suppositions being made here......my response was simply based on my own experience of both London and Sydney living.....fairly relevant I would have thought. Housing will be the biggest cost so in that extent Sydney is vastly different from most other places. Been there done that etc etc!

OzTennis

Of course people will have different experiences in London; different experiences in Sydney and different experiences moving from London to Sydney.

According to Phil Spencer in his latest series showing in the UK, 'Sydney is the 2nd most expensive city on the planet for property'. I found that extremely hard to believe when I watched it last night so did some research on 20 most expensive cities in the world for property and came up with:

According to the Telegraph in the UK the world's 20 most expensive cities to buy property are:

1 Monaco £33,602 per sq m
2 London £12,947 per sq m
3 Hong Kong
4 Paris
5 Singapore
6 Moscow
7 Tokyo
8 New York
9 Mumbai
10 Geneva
11 Rome
12 Athens
13 Helsinki
14 Bermuda
15 Lumembourg
16 Taipei
17 Tel Aviv
18 Sydney £4,398 per sq m
19 Shanghai
20 Toronto

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/....html?image=12

Similar results here but Sydney 12th to London's 2nd:

http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/m...pensive-cities

Sydney 9th and London 3rd here:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100521200/page/10

London 3rd, Sydney 10th according to Forbes:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2934012.html

The evidence suggests London is in the world's Premier League of most expensive cities for property whilst Sydney is in the Championship. People like Phil can peddle these claims without substantiating them and millions of Brits who watch the program and are thinking of emigrating believe it.

paddyo

I can believe those stats actually.....but...are they based purely on price per sq m for that city or aggregated for comparison. What I mean is, is the size of the city taken into account? Sydney is a massive city in metro size whereas I believe London may be smaller. I don't know that for a fact, just trying to gain an understanding of the statistical metrics.
Sydney also has, like all cities really I suppose, its 'highly desirable' suburbs, mostly with either river, harbour or beach views. Londons high des areas tend to be concentrated in the south west and north west. Its never easy to make a full comparison but for us the rental costs in Sydney were double what we were getting for our property in the UK. I also think that London seems smaller to me, easier to get around, whereas Sydney is stretched and nowhere near as easy to commute within.
I don't know.....probably all a muchness.

Beoz

Again this all goes back to earning potential. I would hazaard a guess that Phil looks at a £300,000 property in London, multiplies that by the exchange rate at the time and says, "wow Sydney makes London look cheap"

It would be interesting to see an average Sydney salary in proportion to an average Sydney property price, and the same done again for London.

I would be prepared to lay a small wager that proportionally London will be more expensive.

I know I'm talking rent with the next bit and not property prices, but as I said in the past, and I haven't done this calc since I moved to Sydney nearly 3 years ago, but in London we were paying more of a percentage of our take home pay in rent than what we do in Sydney. I think it was something like 25% vs 22%. But for the pleasure in Sydney we get a 2 bedroom house as opposed to a 1 bed maisonette in London. Both roughly same distance from city yet in London it was not in the most desirable area, but in Sydney it is.

paddyo

I think that is a BIG part of it....desirable area. Even though Australia is an English speaking country you would still like to live among a similar demographic. It may be that coming from London you would feel more comfortable living in a suburb that is at most Anglo Saxon or at least multi cultural but with a Caucasian bias. That's not racist or a form of discrimination...simply a perceived preference. For example I would never in a million years want to live anywhere near Bankstown or some of the other western suburbs, yet it is probably simply a fear of the unknown. Crime exists everywhere, I know that, but 'gang related' tends to be in pockets of similar creeds and colours. So anyone coming here has to marry the affordability of their chosen suburb with their perceived safety.
Oh.....I do realise that not all immigrants coming from London are caucasian anglo saxons by the way, I was merely giving an example of 'desirable'.

Beoz

One thing I've noticed about Sydney that differs to London is the gang thing. In London the gang thing can strike anywhere. Council estates are built along side plush pads in plush neighbourhoods. On that basis the street crime tends to be random and opportunistic.

I don't hang out in Bankstown too often, in fact never, but I would also guess that walking down the street would be a far safer bet that than walking down the street in Notting Hill, next to those estates nearby. The gang thing in Sydney tends to be a little more organised and the crime associated with it tends to be in amongst themselves.

paddyo

lol...yeah........not much Social Housing in Mosman!!

OzTennis

Each survey gives its methodology eg one looks at buying price, price/rent ratio, rent per month (US$), and gross rental yield (%). They are indicators of the whole property market. I'm not sure what Phil bases his claim on - certainly not any evidence I can find and so I consign it to the 'it always rains in Manchester' category.

Make no mistake about it, property is expensive in Sydney but certainly not dearer than London. FWIW Sydney average house price $690K/£385K; Greater London average house price £475K/$850K. Explain that away Phil.

bcworld

Probably this:

http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf

...yes I know, we've been there done that and got the t shirt!

OzTennis

Are the bikies geographically concentrated?

A lot of the gangs are ethnically based and often tend to be the children of migrants (as in London).

Some bikie gangs are ethnically based eg 'Brothers of Life - the gang was founded in prison by convicted criminal Bassam Hamzy'.

OzTennis

I didn't see Sydney average house price $690K/£385K; Greater London average house price £475K/$850K in the report. Are London salaries more than 23% higher than Sydney?