Nomore

Jo...i think what you are doing is very sensible, staying for your citizenship before you head back to the UK...good for you!
This will benefit your children as you say, for their future and your's, just incase you want to return to OZ later in life.
Leaving before you get citizenship is foolish, you have been here this long, stick it out abit longer and your time spent here won't seem to have been for nothing.
Many do it, we will be doing the same and if that offends others, then thats their problem, not ours.

JackTheLad

I was just thinking about your questions... I would say in the short term, no, Australia hasn't got much to lose if a migrant came, paid taxes for 2 years, got citizenship and passport, and left for good. However in the long term, if this citizen gets into any trouble in a foreign country in the future, he or she is entitled to at least some diplomatic assistance from the Australian government, simply because he/she holds citizenship/passport. Depending on the type of assistance this person might need, it could cost the tax payers lots in some cases.

Now, to me, that could be quite unfair, especially if this person knows very well that he or she hates this country before he/she applies for citizenship.

IMHO when citizenship is "granted" and "taken", the commitment is by both sides - the country and the new citizen, to protect each other.

Mrs JTL

NKSK version 2

It's a fair point and I did see it coming......

I think your point might be more pertinent if this were Uzbekistan Expats or similar (good grief I can see what's going to happen next!). I actually thought about the frustration of seeing Lebanese people being rescued by the Australians last year which I thought was a bit of a cheek.

But joint British-Australian passport holders who find themselves stranded in a banana republic whilst on holiday from Britain won't take kindly to the Australians whisking them to Canberra. They'll want the British government to evacuate them to Britain.

So whilst your scenario is theoretically possible, it is unlikely to occur to British-Australian joint passport holders.

The trouble of course is that this now opens a can of worms about the intentions, treatment and expectations of different nationalities.

In a way it is self -correcting. I would have thought that most people from poor countries who manage to secure Australian citizenship will be most likely to stay in Australia for good. Just thinking about Zimbabweans and South Africans in Perth goes some way to confirming that.

New Australians from rich countries such as UK, US, Canada would probably be more likely to return "home" and would then depend on their home country's evacuation in an emergency.

It would be interesting to get some data on which countries' citizens are most likely to return to their homeland after citizenship.

JackTheLad

Can I just quote from the pledge you take when you go for the Citizenship ceremony:

"From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its people..."

So for the plan to work, they have to lie in their pledge. Whats the point of the pledge then? Whats the point of oaths? Lets all just lie and connive and cheat and do whatever we want afterwards. Great example for the kids:- Say what needs to be said to get what you want, and make sure you have your fingers crossed behind your back.

I just think its sad that this is even a debate. Alot of mature adults are discussing whether its okay to take a false oath. Next thing you know, people will be lying in their wedding vows...

JTL

JAJ

Your "solution" would not be very popular with the hundreds of thousands of Australian born people overseas. Plus their overseas born children.

The many Australian war brides in the United States (ie who married US servicemen during the Second World War), who only now stand to get their Australian citizenship back, might for example be able to tell you something about "nationality and allegiance".

Anyway, Australia cannot control who is and is not a citizen of any foreign country, so if you really wanted to "scrap dual nationality" under Australian law, you would effectively have to give foreign countries a say in who is an Australian citizen and who is not.

JAJ

I would just point out that it is not an oath to forever remain resident in Australia.

The other point I would make is that the intention is required to either plan to continue living in Australia or maintain a "close and continuining association" with Australia. Isn't an Australian citizen child a "close and continuing association" with Australia?

Another element of the problem is that many people never take citizenship when they are eligible and only start thinking about it later on when a departure is imminent.

adiestubbs

If there was a serious breakdown in the society of the banana republic (coup, civil war etc) then i personally wouldnt care which western nation evacuated me, just the first one there!!

CPW

But these joint British–Australian passport holders would, I am sure, be delighted to be taken to either the UK or Australia if there was truly a break-down of law and order or a major natural disaster in the "Banana Republic". And no one's going to be "whisked" anywhere: people in this sort of circumstance who wish to stay are not compelled to take advantage of any assistance that their government might be able to give them.

CPW

Being "loyal to Australia and its people" doesn't necessarily mean that one has to spend the rest of one's life in Australia, neither are people who take this oath or pledge when they are granted Australian citizenship saying that they are going to do that.

CPW

I can't see how that would resolve anything much. For one thing, the thinking seems to be based on a premise that one's view of one's nationality is somehow similar to how a 10-year-old boy might view his allegience to his chosen football team: a one-only allegience. But national allegience is much more complicated than this - ask almost anyone who has migrated from one country to another or who has parents from more than one country. And allegience is much more than a passport or a piece of paper, after all.

The sort of thing you suggest might also sound good to some public servant looking out from his or her office on to the well-watered lawns of Canberra. But in reality life can be much more complicated than this "solution" suggests - for example, people sometimes have elderly parents who need looking after in their "other" country, or wish their children to be able to spend some time getting to know their grandparents (and vice versa), not to mention issues that can arise from property in another country, work, professional registrations, and all the rest of it.

Pollyana

No-one can predict what can happen in the future, and lets face it, even those who take the oath when they become citizens, intending to keep it, may find themselves in circumstances where they have to leave the country for a while, wanting to return later.

For instance - parent is terminally ill in the UK but with a few years to live, child has taken an oath of Australian citizenship and lives here. Surely no-one would suggest that the child cannot move back to the UK to be with their parent, retaining the right to return to Australia later - maybe some years later. The right to live in both countries makes this kind of thing a lot easier. And what about the children of that person who chooses to go home, they may have been born here and know no other home - should they not have the right to come back "home" to Aus when they are independent?

Look at my own situation - mirrored by many people on spouse visas - we come here to spend married life with an Australian partner. When we arrive we intend to stay for life. But if - god forbid - anything happens to that partner - should we not have the right to choose THEN which country we wish to spend the rest of our lives in? I am quite willing to take on the obligations of citizenship if they ever let me (we also in the majority of case have to wait longer for citizenship than most Skills visa migrants, even though WE are more likely to stay for life ) but I want to retain the right to go home to my family if I choose to - after all, I came here for a marriage, not for a "sell it all and go seeking a big house in the sun with a pool" experience.

CPW

Yes, although my point in one of the posts above is that leaving Australia is not, per se, going against the oath taken at a citizenship ceremony in any case.

232Bar

If the OP is soooooo concerned about her dying grandfather, then citizenship should take a back seat. If her desire to spend time with an old bloke who won't know her is totally altruistic then surely she'd leave to go and hold is hand and say "there there". Once he's dead (and all of the other friends and random rellies she left there) then she can truly decide where she prefers. If it's Australia, then come back and apply for citizenship next time around. Just don't make any new friends who you can't bear to leave while back in the UK. You either want to spend genuine time with your granfather (oops sorry granDfather) or you want to use him as an excuse for running back to the UK as soon as you have a blue passport. It's like the Aussies say - "if you don't like it - leave", just don't use an old bloke as your excuse.

NedKelly

Of course not but if you hate the place, plan to leave and don't want to come back why should you get citizenship.

Not when you whisk that child away to another country before his second birthday to live the rest of his life somewhere else.

Beats me!

NedKelly

That's what visas are for.