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Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Old Feb 7th 2015, 4:59 am
  #226  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by knockoff nige View Post
9 billion dollars to the reserve bank that they didn't ask for or need.

Investment in transport infrastructure where exactly? Labor already had plans for that and most infrastructure spending happens at state level.

By cleaning up the carbon tax do you mean removing tax revenue and keeping the family rebate? Removing the carbon tax wasn't a budget measure, it was seperate. It's also increased the deficit.

Border protection already had a cost.

How about a massive blow out in cost in NBN which is now more expensive and far inferior to Labors plan. How about the cost to reverse good working policy by Labor just to make your mark? That's what's got Tony Abbott on the ropes if you hadn't noticed. Bringing things like Knighthoods back that Labor scrapped.

How exactly are this government cleaning things up? There is no evidence that what they are doing is working. It's more evident that if Labor were still in government the deficit would be much lower as it wasn't growing this fast. Explain that to me.

Do you believe that states selling off assets is a good idea? I've accepted you don't like to answer my questions but I'll keep asking them anyway.
Funniest thing I've heard for awhile Tony cleaning up things. The amount wasted in bribes to third world tin pot regimes to solves what is essentially Australia's issue of border protection. Huge amounts have been wasted on inhuman activities not to say illegal, when not forgetting Morrison turned down the labor wish to attempt the solve the matter with The Malaysia Solution.
Denied due to conditions in Malaysia with corporal and capital punishment as part of the reasons for objecting to it.

A party of no accountability, proven to tell lies, complete disdain to the public, born to rule mentality, and so on.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 5:04 am
  #227  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Neo Cons, great at looking after their mates at the top end and big business.
Hence the ever gaining amount of wealth at the top.

It is clear the [people don't want what is on offer by that side of politics. It would appear to be sweeping the world. Neo Conservative politics and economic theory play to elites and offer nothing but reductions in living standards, reduced to the bone safety nets, less if any work rights, reward those in power, less accountability, the list goes on.

As for the jibe about turning the lights out it was used as well in New Zealand for those escaping the economic policies of the right wing NZ party in power at the time.

A leash needs to be firmly around the neck of big business with regards undue influence over elected representatives of the people. Buying of influence and corruption of individuals with donations.

As noted the very existence of capitalism is at risk with the way it is dominating the political agenda. The rot needs to stop.

The middle class is a peculiarity of the 20th century, I fear - that much we may agree on.

Vive la revolution, eh?

Best regards.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 5:25 am
  #228  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Alan Collett View Post
The middle class is a peculiarity of the 20th century, I fear - that much we may agree on.

Vive la revolution, eh?

Best regards.
Unlikely to be a force in the 21 if we march along the route we are taking. Well the revolution of Conservative ideas that took of with such force in the 80's , changing the status quo in place since the war, has proved a total and utter failure.

Few besides those that got into the housing lurk at the correct time would see much if any benefit from the lop sided 'New Order'. Rather the contrary. Leveraged out to the max, working with declining entitlements to job security, ever on going education to what ends, pay for education, house price inflation insuring a life time mortgage, working longer hours, less time to socialise and expensive to do so. International turmoil in advanced economies, the list could go on.

A revolution in common sense that takes in the needs of the human condition and what are the things really important for the several decades we inhabit this planet and that is not the ever desire for more.

The power elites, should not and cannot be allowed to dictate the narrative. Reign in the bean counters while your at it.

The push towards the smaller parties on the Right and Left of the fringe points to the political disenchantment with mainstream ideology and kowtowing to other interests. The people are braying for change.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 5:28 am
  #229  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
I argue that a super fund dependent on the share market is a dodgy proposition at best. I speak as someone that lost a considerable amount several years ago with the market decline.

Hardly any sort of aged guarantee if reliance is how well the share market is performing as to how one can plan for future retirement but your sold.

Saying that I have used it as part of the gamble and in order to reduce tax.

Having a guaranteed pension from another country, but hardly enough if over stay my time on earth, does allow for some comfort and asset free testing to top it off in comparison to the Australian Aged Pension which is income support at best.

Your words the rich are a pack of bastards. I guess personal experience has pointed you that way. Certainly people regardless of social standing, position, wealth will get away with whatever they feel able to if unlikely to get caught.
Greed knows no class bounds but the pay as you go are of course easier to come after.

Those earning more pay more end off. It is not the total amount paid it is the earnings made. Being too hard to reign in is not an excuse and needs world wide attention.
I take it English is not your first language,the word is irony,all those rich people ever did was take care of me,thus the laughter.

Think of Life of Brian "what have the romans(read rich people) ever done for us"

Take CBA, it is the largest company by market cap in OZ,with approx. 1.6 billion shares on issue,approx 48% owned by super funds.

An issue price of $5.40 when sold by the govt.Sold off in 3 tranches (I think).Take the 1.6 being full issue at the IPO.A company worth 9 billion (rounded).A company now worth $150 billion.Rounded shall we say 50% of that gain went to super funds.So $70 billion has gone to the super funds to create wealth for the masses.

Dividends that started at 40 cents a share are now $4 a share.Would you like to call that an average of $2 per share.24 yrs on issue,round that down to 20 yrs shall we.So we have .8 billion x $2 per share for 20 yrs.That is 32 billion flowing into the super funds plus rebate of franking credits,what would you like to round that to $35 or 40 billion.The tax they have paid,shall we say at least $20 billion,$3.8 billion last year,around 45,000 people employed.

Keep telling yourself the wealth is not being shared around.

In the UK 3% of the people pay 50% of the tax,I don't give a rats arse,I don't live there.In Oz I pay a huge amount of tax,and don't mind in the slightest,it is an honour,not a burden.

I don't mind teaching people how to create wealth,it supplies me with a great laugh at just how determined they are to fool themselves that they are not wrong,the facts are wrong.There is no reality,it disappears,all you have to do is refuse to see it.

If you are from a Germanic or Scandinavian background then we can have everything that they have,all we have to do is pay more taxes and social security taxes.

I don't mind teaching at all ,now here we go,

All together,loud as they like.

Don't want to do that

Haven't got the time to do that

Too risky.

Better things to spend money on.

Read this article .

Listen to this expert.

What does everybody else think I should do.

And so on,the bullshit never stops,the lies they tell never stop,all so they can refuse to see reality.

To put it bluntly they would rather die than think and the greedy bastards would rather kill themselves than spend any of that money they worship so much.Terrified in case they lose any of it.

Geordie downunder
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 5:43 am
  #230  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by swans View Post
I take it English is not your first language,the word is irony,all those rich people ever did was take care of me,thus the laughter.

Think of Life of Brian "what have the romans(read rich people) ever done for us"

Take CBA, it is the largest company by market cap in OZ,with approx. 1.6 billion shares on issue,approx 48% owned by super funds.

An issue price of $5.40 when sold by the govt.Sold off in 3 tranches (I think).Take the 1.6 being full issue at the IPO.A company worth 9 billion (rounded).A company now worth $150 billion.Rounded shall we say 50% of that gain went to super funds.So $70 billion has gone to the super funds to create wealth for the masses.

Dividends that started at 40 cents a share are now $4 a share.Would you like to call that an average of $2 per share.24 yrs on issue,round that down to 20 yrs shall we.So we have .8 billion x $2 per share for 20 yrs.That is 32 billion flowing into the super funds plus rebate of franking credits,what would you like to round that to $35 or 40 billion.The tax they have paid,shall we say at least $20 billion,$3.8 billion last year,around 45,000 people employed.

Keep telling yourself the wealth is not being shared around.

In the UK 3% of the people pay 50% of the tax,I don't give a rats arse,I don't live there.In Oz I pay a huge amount of tax,and don't mind in the slightest,it is an honour,not a burden.

I don't mind teaching people how to create wealth,it supplies me with a great laugh at just how determined they are to fool themselves that they are not wrong,the facts are wrong.There is no reality,it disappears,all you have to do is refuse to see it.

If you are from a Germanic or Scandinavian background then we can have everything that they have,all we have to do is pay more taxes and social security taxes.

I don't mind teaching at all ,now here we go,

All together,loud as they like.

Don't want to do that

Haven't got the time to do that

Too risky.

Better things to spend money on.

Read this article .

Listen to this expert.

What does everybody else think I should do.

And so on,the bullshit never stops,the lies they tell never stop,all so they can refuse to see reality.

To put it bluntly they would rather die than think and the greedy bastards would rather kill themselves than spend any of that money they worship so much.Terrified in case they lose any of it.

Geordie downunder
OOPS,I'll point out reality again...Take another 100K off me in tax and it damages me,no doubt.Another 100K off me solves all the problems.

Take a dollar a week from the masses and it is $10million a week,$520 million a year.We'll keep fooling ourselves they can't afford it shall we.

The 1% where most of them want the wealth spread around and do take care of the rest.We'll keep telling ourselves that 1% should take care of every wish of the masses and fool ourselves that that is sustainable.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 10:09 am
  #231  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by swans View Post
OOPS,I'll point out reality again...Take another 100K off me in tax and it damages me,no doubt.Another 100K off me solves all the problems.

Take a dollar a week from the masses and it is $10million a week,$520 million a year.We'll keep fooling ourselves they can't afford it shall we.

The 1% where most of them want the wealth spread around and do take care of the rest.We'll keep telling ourselves that 1% should take care of every wish of the masses and fool ourselves that that is sustainable.
You want reality then here it is. 1% of the population controls 46% of the wealth. This will grow to half of the world's wealth by 2016.

That what the reality is and you are right it is not sustainable as more people get a handle what is really going on out there. The ordinary people sustaining the rich and parasites. Changes are really in order.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 10:12 am
  #232  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by swans View Post
I take it English is not your first language,the word is irony,all those rich people ever did was take care of me,thus the laughter.

Think of Life of Brian "what have the romans(read rich people) ever done for us"

Take CBA, it is the largest company by market cap in OZ,with approx. 1.6 billion shares on issue,approx 48% owned by super funds.

An issue price of $5.40 when sold by the govt.Sold off in 3 tranches (I think).Take the 1.6 being full issue at the IPO.A company worth 9 billion (rounded).A company now worth $150 billion.Rounded shall we say 50% of that gain went to super funds.So $70 billion has gone to the super funds to create wealth for the masses.

Dividends that started at 40 cents a share are now $4 a share.Would you like to call that an average of $2 per share.24 yrs on issue,round that down to 20 yrs shall we.So we have .8 billion x $2 per share for 20 yrs.That is 32 billion flowing into the super funds plus rebate of franking credits,what would you like to round that to $35 or 40 billion.The tax they have paid,shall we say at least $20 billion,$3.8 billion last year,around 45,000 people employed.

Keep telling yourself the wealth is not being shared around.

In the UK 3% of the people pay 50% of the tax,I don't give a rats arse,I don't live there.In Oz I pay a huge amount of tax,and don't mind in the slightest,it is an honour,not a burden.

I don't mind teaching people how to create wealth,it supplies me with a great laugh at just how determined they are to fool themselves that they are not wrong,the facts are wrong.There is no reality,it disappears,all you have to do is refuse to see it.

If you are from a Germanic or Scandinavian background then we can have everything that they have,all we have to do is pay more taxes and social security taxes.

I don't mind teaching at all ,now here we go,

All together,loud as they like.

Don't want to do that

Haven't got the time to do that

Too risky.

Better things to spend money on.

Read this article .

Listen to this expert.

What does everybody else think I should do.

And so on,the bullshit never stops,the lies they tell never stop,all so they can refuse to see reality.

To put it bluntly they would rather die than think and the greedy bastards would rather kill themselves than spend any of that money they worship so much.Terrified in case they lose any of it.

Geordie downunder
I shall and will keep saying the wealth isn't being spread around. Fact. I expect I speak English better or at least on par with you along with others.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 11:52 am
  #233  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by knockoff nige View Post
That's as good as Tony Abbott could do in response to anything so guess that will have to do.

Remember this post for the next time you accuse me of running away from the facts.
It was nite nite time where i was. Bed was far more appealing than you. Don't take it personally. I present you the facts and you move to suit your own agenda. Everytime.

In summary you seem to believe Labor had plans. Well my friend maybe they did but the continual recent historical problem with labor is they never act or follow through.

I'll take doers anyday of the week. Not every ideal will appeal but thats life.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 12:00 pm
  #234  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
It was nite nite time where i was. Bed was far more appealing than you. Don't take it personally. I present you the facts and you move to suit your own agenda. Everytime.

In summary you seem to believe Labor had plans. Well my friend maybe they did but the continual recent historical problem with labor is they never act or follow through.

I'll take doers anyday of the week. Not every ideal will appeal but thats life.
You could always avoid the narrow political platitudes as both are at fault at look at the bigger picture. The facts are as they are and conservatives are not going to save most butts.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 12:08 pm
  #235  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
Funniest thing I've heard for awhile Tony cleaning up things. The amount wasted in bribes to third world tin pot regimes to solves what is essentially Australia's issue of border protection. Huge amounts have been wasted on inhuman activities not to say illegal, when not forgetting Morrison turned down the labor wish to attempt the solve the matter with The Malaysia Solution.
Denied due to conditions in Malaysia with corporal and capital punishment as part of the reasons for objecting to it.

A party of no accountability, proven to tell lies, complete disdain to the public, born to rule mentality, and so on.
Wow. .... and had of the Libs proposed Malaysia you would have been the first to pull the left wing cries of corporal punishment etc.

The bottom line boating across seas in search of asylum had to be stopped. No government finds that practice acceptable.

The Libs got the job done. Sure call foul on the way it was done or lack of media exposure etc. Thats just little voice in the distance stuff. Its job done, easy peasy, move on ..... next.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 12:09 pm
  #236  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
You could always avoid the narrow political platitudes as both are at fault at look at the bigger picture. The facts are as they are and conservatives are not going to save most butts.
Really. I think you'll find recent political history in both Oz and the UK suggests conservatives do save most butts.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 12:17 pm
  #237  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by swans View Post
OOPS,I'll point out reality again...Take another 100K off me in tax and it damages me,no doubt.Another 100K off me solves all the problems.

Take a dollar a week from the masses and it is $10million a week,$520 million a year.We'll keep fooling ourselves they can't afford it shall we.

The 1% where most of them want the wealth spread around and do take care of the rest.We'll keep telling ourselves that 1% should take care of every wish of the masses and fool ourselves that that is sustainable.
$1 a week, sure the masses have that to give right? Why would they whinge about it?

You do know that 80% of the worlds wealth is not in the hands of the masses, right? You do know that many in that end of town get government assistance with superannuation, income tax abd many other perks that could be removed and fund far more for the current deficit situation than tkaing a dollar a week from the masses.

Interesting that you say a dollar a week from the masses would amount to $10million a week. A population of about 22 million would mean about $22 million a week I would think. If they can afford it of course.

The masses includes everyone, meaning all those currently paying their share and those that are not. Poor people on welfare are receiving payments that reflect a measured requirement for todays economy and cost of living. Sure, they should suffer. The reality is the real gripe with unemployed is those that rort the system and make no effort to find a job. They, of course, should be found and prosecuted. Anyone that needs welfare for the amount of time they need it need to get it and need to feel assistance in improving their situation. Those that are physically or mentally disabled need welfare. Cutting expenditure from this area to attack a budget deficit mostly created by this government is not moral or even efficient.

Scrapping the carbon tax cost Australia massively. It was supposed to mean more jobs, it has not. The opposite is true. It was supposed to mean lower utility bills. The opposite is true. We still pay for the family payments for this and yet we can't even fund it. So, we need to take from the unemployed, the homeless (yes, they are removing funding for homeless programs), public health and education. Somehow, we still have the money to fund faulty fighter jets, school chaplains, Knighthoods and free travel for anywhere our politicians say they go once they turn up to a near by school or day care centre.

Do we need a GP tax for medical research? Our genius of a treasurer, who has a heart attack every time he discusses how badly in debt we are thanks to Labor, thinks we should have the best medical research in the world.

Do we need to spend more for a lesser NBN? Do we need to remove good policy just because the government disagrees with it?

Someone show me how this government has made any actual positive steps to improving our budget situation. No-one can as they have not done it. Their budget failed because they were arrogant, greedy, ignorant to the Australian people and desperate to please their corporate mates. It will be quite late in the day when the LNP followers on here realise that they backed a three legged horse.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 12:19 pm
  #238  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
It was nite nite time where i was. Bed was far more appealing than you. Don't take it personally. I present you the facts and you move to suit your own agenda. Everytime.

In summary you seem to believe Labor had plans. Well my friend maybe they did but the continual recent historical problem with labor is they never act or follow through.

I'll take doers anyday of the week. Not every ideal will appeal but thats life.
Point out one single fact you've made on this thread please that is relevant to the discussion. That is, your own fact. That is all I ask. Saying 'you run away from the facts' makes no sense before you actually state the facts. I can't run away from facts I have not seen.

I'm waiting.
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 12:20 pm
  #239  
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Really. I think you'll find recent political history in both Oz and the UK suggests conservatives do save most butts.
Saved who exactly?
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Old Feb 7th 2015, 12:21 pm
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Default Re: Call To Raise GST A Regressive Step?

Originally Posted by Beoz View Post
Wow. .... and had of the Libs proposed Malaysia you would have been the first to pull the left wing cries of corporal punishment etc.

The bottom line boating across seas in search of asylum had to be stopped. No government finds that practice acceptable.

The Libs got the job done. Sure call foul on the way it was done or lack of media exposure etc. Thats just little voice in the distance stuff. Its job done, easy peasy, move on ..... next.
Boats are still coming, read the news. They slowed down massively since the policy change under Kevin Rudd. There's a fact for you.
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