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CA/CPA Advice needed please!

CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Old Jul 15th 2009, 3:27 pm
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Default CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Hi
Calling all accountants, both CA and CPA.
I am ACCA qualified and now have MNIA (I know it is not as prestigious as CA/CPA before you say it!!!!)

I am moving in October and am registering with both ICAA and CPA at the moment for them to assess my qualification and give me an idea of what I need to study to get on the program and also what I will need to study when on the program.

I am initially applying to both to see the outcome and I will pursue the one I think best when I have weighed up all the pros and cons.

OK- CA- it's a two year program with mentored work experience also.
Compared to ACCA program- is it as difficult/as intensive/am I able to study whilst working or will I need to take a period out to complete finals (as I did with ACCA as was self taught)?

CPA- I know I won't have to do mentored work experience- but how long does it take and again, how intensive is it? And how difficlut compared with ACCA?

Also, I know it is a difficult question, but maybe someone can help- is one easier than the other?

Am finding it a bit of a minefield!!!!
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Old Jul 15th 2009, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Hi

I'm a CA. I've got friends who've done both. The consensus seems to be that CA is harder in that its written rather than multi-guess but I suspect thats down to personal preference rather than anything scientific. Time to do it from scratch seems to be about the same.

For me it comes down to where you want to work. If its commerce then do CPA. If its the profession and you want Big 4/Middle Tier then do CA. If its something in the profession but regional then I'd probably go for CPA as its likely most of your potential employers could be CPA's rather than CA's.

For the CA exams I used to take a week off before the exam to cram it all in. Workshops ran for 4 weeks and some of the result is from them (70/30 i think but its been a number years!)

My advice would be to take it easy until you arrive. The only reason you'd need either of them is if you want to start your own firm I'd think. Otherwise an employer is going to take you on regardless of the situation and once you are in just do whatever it is they prefer (with CA you need to be mentored by a CA).

If you want to join the profession then it may be a little more difficult of course but with the skills shortage I don't think you'd have to many issues!

Goat.
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Old Jul 15th 2009, 5:01 pm
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by goatherder
Hi

I'm a CA. I've got friends who've done both. The consensus seems to be that CA is harder in that its written rather than multi-guess but I suspect thats down to personal preference rather than anything scientific. Time to do it from scratch seems to be about the same.

For me it comes down to where you want to work. If its commerce then do CPA. If its the profession and you want Big 4/Middle Tier then do CA. If its something in the profession but regional then I'd probably go for CPA as its likely most of your potential employers could be CPA's rather than CA's.

For the CA exams I used to take a week off before the exam to cram it all in. Workshops ran for 4 weeks and some of the result is from them (70/30 i think but its been a number years!)

My advice would be to take it easy until you arrive. The only reason you'd need either of them is if you want to start your own firm I'd think. Otherwise an employer is going to take you on regardless of the situation and once you are in just do whatever it is they prefer (with CA you need to be mentored by a CA).

If you want to join the profession then it may be a little more difficult of course but with the skills shortage I don't think you'd have to many issues!

Goat.
That is brilliant, really helpful.
I kind of got the impression over the past six months or so that employers out there are not interested in ACCA qualification and that one would need to get CA/CPA asap in order to get a job in practice or industry/commerce. Is that not the case? I don't know where you are based but I am headed to Melbourne.
I've also been given the impression that jobs are hard to come by and that the accountancy jobmarket is extremely competitive. Is that the case?
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Old Jul 16th 2009, 12:14 am
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Hi

I'm actually in New York, lived in london for 10 years and before that qualified in Australia.

Prior to moving to New York in March I spent six months in Australia. The impression I got from both Recruiters and friends was that the profession was still recruiting particularly in the 6yrs + experience areas.

Commerce did appear to be slightly more competitive. I actually moved to NY in the middle of all of this and to be honest didn't find it difficult getting a job and its supposed to worse over here.

Remember that the tax year end is June 30 hence there will be great demand for Accounting staff in the profession thru to at least Feb I'd say.

Good luck!

Goat
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Old Jul 16th 2009, 3:45 am
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by annamichelle2310
That is brilliant, really helpful.
I kind of got the impression over the past six months or so that employers out there are not interested in ACCA qualification and that one would need to get CA/CPA asap in order to get a job in practice or industry/commerce. Is that not the case? I don't know where you are based but I am headed to Melbourne.
I've also been given the impression that jobs are hard to come by and that the accountancy jobmarket is extremely competitive. Is that the case?
Hi Annamichelle

Are you approaching employers directly? Maybe the lack of interest is because your not here yet?

I think you (probably) have a lot of experience to offer and maybe you should be "selling" on that? I know we have spoken about this before but please please don't get bogged down with the whole qualification thing. The quals you offer are just one part of your skill set and at your stage in your career you have a lot of other qualities that you can sell.

Have you made any decisions about practice v's industry. As far as I know (anyone please correct me if I am wrong) but if you go down the CA route practice is really the only way your going to easily achieve all your practical experience (I am not sure if they take prior work into consideration). In my experience finding work in practice is easy. I have found that finding a job in industry is a lot more difficult and the reason for this struggle is not my qual but rather that and employer will give the agent a brief to only look for people with certain industry experience. Were my usual industry a bit brighter I'm sure I'd be quids in but its one that's been hit hard. Getting a foot in the door into something new is tough but not impossible (even with my ACCA qual!) but at interview I have been grilled about my reasons for selecting X or Y industry and have to really "sell" those transferable skills. In fairness the only person to ever bring up the ACCA thing with me was a previous employer who after interviewing me took a look at their website found out a little about the ACCA then offered me the job.

Anyhow sorry back on topic! Talking to those who have transferred over CPA is a walk in the park (sorry all CPA people again I am just repeating what I have been told). For the most part its open book, a colleague I used to work with started to study on CA then transferred to study CPA. He used to study evenings and weekends for CA this came down to study on a Sunday afternoon for CPA. I have never ever heard of anyone giving up work to study CPA and have never heard of anyone failing a CPA paper (I think their pass rate is around double that of ACCA) With an ACCA qual a lot of the CPA won't be new and you will be repeating a lot of what you have already studied (hence my repeated questioning - are you really sure you want to put yourself through the expense and work of all that again??? I shudder to consider studying Modigliani and Miller - once in a lifetime is enough!!! Don't you want to hold out until you get here and get a really good grasp of the market and then make the decision?) (not telling you what to do here just saying you may find your perceptions shift once you get here)

BTW Did you talk to Richard? Was he any help?

Sorry this has been a long and rambling post - not long to go for you now, almost be time to get those farewell parties organised!
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Old Jul 16th 2009, 8:36 am
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by louH
Hi Annamichelle

Are you approaching employers directly? Maybe the lack of interest is because your not here yet?

I think you (probably) have a lot of experience to offer and maybe you should be "selling" on that? I know we have spoken about this before but please please don't get bogged down with the whole qualification thing. The quals you offer are just one part of your skill set and at your stage in your career you have a lot of other qualities that you can sell.

Have you made any decisions about practice v's industry. As far as I know (anyone please correct me if I am wrong) but if you go down the CA route practice is really the only way your going to easily achieve all your practical experience (I am not sure if they take prior work into consideration). In my experience finding work in practice is easy. I have found that finding a job in industry is a lot more difficult and the reason for this struggle is not my qual but rather that and employer will give the agent a brief to only look for people with certain industry experience. Were my usual industry a bit brighter I'm sure I'd be quids in but its one that's been hit hard. Getting a foot in the door into something new is tough but not impossible (even with my ACCA qual!) but at interview I have been grilled about my reasons for selecting X or Y industry and have to really "sell" those transferable skills. In fairness the only person to ever bring up the ACCA thing with me was a previous employer who after interviewing me took a look at their website found out a little about the ACCA then offered me the job.

Anyhow sorry back on topic! Talking to those who have transferred over CPA is a walk in the park (sorry all CPA people again I am just repeating what I have been told). For the most part its open book, a colleague I used to work with started to study on CA then transferred to study CPA. He used to study evenings and weekends for CA this came down to study on a Sunday afternoon for CPA. I have never ever heard of anyone giving up work to study CPA and have never heard of anyone failing a CPA paper (I think their pass rate is around double that of ACCA) With an ACCA qual a lot of the CPA won't be new and you will be repeating a lot of what you have already studied (hence my repeated questioning - are you really sure you want to put yourself through the expense and work of all that again??? I shudder to consider studying Modigliani and Miller - once in a lifetime is enough!!! Don't you want to hold out until you get here and get a really good grasp of the market and then make the decision?) (not telling you what to do here just saying you may find your perceptions shift once you get here)

BTW Did you talk to Richard? Was he any help?

Sorry this has been a long and rambling post - not long to go for you now, almost be time to get those farewell parties organised!
Wow thanks for the info. Yes, I did email Richard at ACCA but got response from Allun Blewitt who is dealing with these matters. Yes, I did find him helpful but he was realistic about ACCA in Oz and said that, although they are really pushing to get it more recognised, that sadly there is a long way to go with it.

CPA sounds quite a good option then. I have had lots of work experience in practice and industry/commerce so maybe CPA would be a little less restricting in terms of being able to pick up either. I've made contact with a lady who deals with qualification assessments at CPA and she has said that if I complete a registration form and send her all my documentation (transcripts etc) that she will advise me on what CPA would require of me, before I actually go ahead. So I have done this and await response.

The job market sounds like it has picked up a lot. My contact has been mainly with agencies, not employers direct, I plan to take some time when I arrive armed with cvs and approaching all relevant agencies and any possible eployers I get to know about who are recruiting.
I have time on my side as I have sold my house here and have back up finances, but I would really like to do some contract/temp work to begin with to get a feel for things.

Once again, thanks for the advice, I think you have swung it for me on the CPA front. Much appreciated! Not a rambling post, very informative!!!!
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Old Jul 16th 2009, 10:20 am
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Hi

The agencies aren't going to do anything until your either there or almost there. So if you are not getting alot of interest I'd say its because its too early.

I'd leave the qualification thing until you are actually employed - certainly look into what credits you get and list that on your resume / cv. Also state that you are keen on doing either further qualifications.

As louh has says they are only letters after the name and only a small part of what you've done. The other bits are what differentiate you.

I would think in September would be the time to start seriously starting a look at the market. ie around 2 weeks prior to landing. Get on with enjoying the British Summer. The Ashes is on!

Seeya

Goat.
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Old Jul 16th 2009, 10:31 am
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by goatherder
Hi

The agencies aren't going to do anything until your either there or almost there. So if you are not getting alot of interest I'd say its because its too early.

I'd leave the qualification thing until you are actually employed - certainly look into what credits you get and list that on your resume / cv. Also state that you are keen on doing either further qualifications.

As louh has says they are only letters after the name and only a small part of what you've done. The other bits are what differentiate you.

I would think in September would be the time to start seriously starting a look at the market. ie around 2 weeks prior to landing. Get on with enjoying the British Summer. The Ashes is on!

Seeya

Goat.
LOL
Thanks for the advice! I think maybe in the past a picture of doom has been painted to a certain extent regarding the job market over there hence my motivation to get everything moving to give me the best possible chance when I get there. Maybe I have been a bit too worried unnecessarily.
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Old Jul 16th 2009, 10:32 am
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by annamichelle2310
LOL
Thanks for the advice! I think maybe in the past a picture of doom has been painted to a certain extent regarding the job market over there hence my motivation to get everything moving to give me the best possible chance when I get there. Maybe I have been a bit too worried unnecessarily.
its much better than London is at the moment....
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Old Jul 17th 2009, 12:56 am
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by goatherder
its much better than London is at the moment....

Yip second that!
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Old Jul 17th 2009, 2:41 am
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

FWIW, I'm starting to understand why CA tends to be viewed as better than CPA. I get the impression that with open book, multiple choice exams (for the whole lot!!) CPA does have some dross get through the qualification process. Its likely that CA, (albeit open book to quote legislation etc) with actual answers required is a more vigorous qualification.

Then again I may be biased as I work with some almost qualified CPA's who quite frankly wouldn't even be CIMA foundation level when it comes to comparative competence..........
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Old Jul 17th 2009, 5:11 am
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by NikiL
FWIW, I'm starting to understand why CA tends to be viewed as better than CPA. I get the impression that with open book, multiple choice exams (for the whole lot!!) CPA does have some dross get through the qualification process. Its likely that CA, (albeit open book to quote legislation etc) with actual answers required is a more vigorous qualification.

Then again I may be biased as I work with some almost qualified CPA's who quite frankly wouldn't even be CIMA foundation level when it comes to comparative competence..........
Know what you mean Niki - our system (be it ACCA or CIMA) is so much more demanding than the Aussie equivalents. For sport I like to scare young aussie accountants by mapping out for them what they would have to go through if they were taking accounting exams in the UK, tee hee you gotta get a laugh somewhere!!!!
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Old Jul 18th 2009, 6:16 pm
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by goatherder
For me it comes down to where you want to work. If its commerce then do CPA. If its the profession and you want Big 4/Middle Tier then do CA. If its something in the profession but regional then I'd probably go for CPA as its likely most of your potential employers could be CPA's rather than CA's.
CA is also good for commerce work, in fact it probably opens a few more doors than CPA.
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 4:15 am
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

Originally Posted by NikiL
FWIW, I'm starting to understand why CA tends to be viewed as better than CPA.
When CPA graduates fail to:
  • Understand difference between prepayments and accruals
  • Understand accounting for financial leases
  • Ensure basic subsidiary ledgers reconcile to main GL
  • Balance the daily bank rec with adjustment journal ???? just to make it look right
  • Make payments in company Z yet the entries in company Y without any thoughts of intercompany entries

But they do:
  • Forget about audit trails (the auditors need to be telepathic)
  • Use pencil (helps when you have to rub out all your workings)
  • Keep any workings in their heads
  • Make payments by EFT but use cheque reference numbers
  • Amalgamate when setting up for first time in SAP the BOMS into one category ie Labour/Materials/OVerheads all into Labour - because its easy to enter
  • Bypass regimental financial controls when it gets too hard

Are people getting my drift

I should write a book
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Old Jul 19th 2009, 4:54 am
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Default Re: CA/CPA Advice needed please!

I have to do 4 subjects to convert my South African qualification into a CA (Aus). I am studying distance through University of Southern Queensland (USQ) and have completed Tax and Financial management. I am about to start Company Law.

I have to say I am finding it a lot easier than when I wrote exams 15 years ago, although I'm not certain if that is because the Aussie exams are easier or if I have experience under my belt and it's easy to relate what I'm studying to practice.

I don't regret following this path at all. In fact, for the 1st time in my life, I'm actually enjoying studying. Although maybe that's just because I can now see how it's going to pay dividends in the near future. Looking through the job ads, I reckon finding placement as a CA (Aus) should be easier.
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