British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Hi,

I am moving to Oz in August and I will hopefully be graduating with a 2.1 but maybe a 2.2 if the worst happens (depending on what I get for my dissertation).

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to write this on a CV/Resume in Australia and I would be grateful if anyone could answer the following:

1) Here we would write "BA (Hons) subject x...degree class: Upper second" or "BA (Hons) subject x...degree class: Lower second". I presume in Australia it would be the same format, but replace 2.1 and 2.2 with Distinction and Credit, respectively.

2) As I understand it, in Oz, a three year degree is a BA, whereas a three year degree plus an extra top up makes it a BA (Hons). Does my three year Honours degree translate to an Honours degree in Australia?

3) I hear of people here having trouble to get a good graduate job if they graduate with a 2.2 because many employers frown upon this degree class, and many employers demand that graduates have at least a 2.1 (Australian Distinction) - is this exactly the same in Oz? Do employers attach the same importance to this cut-off point of a 2.1?

Thanks :)

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

I'm not responding to your question and not commenting on your degree but just on the subject of degrees with honours.

When I did my degree at the University of Melbourne there was a 1st year intake of 400 students. We were told on the first day by the Dean of the Faculty when all students were assembled (does this happen now?) that of the 400, 1/3 would drop out and not gain a degree, 1/3 would complete their degree in minimum time and 1/3 would take a year or more longer than the minimum time to complete their degree.

Of the 1/3 who passed all subjects at the end of 1st year, 1/3 were offered a place on the honours degree course and 1/2 of these accepted the place and 1/3 of those who started honours didn't pass the course. (2/3 of 1/2 of 1/3 of 400 got Hons).

'Once upon a time' a vast majority of people graduated with an 'ordinary' degree and very few people with an honours degree. It seems nowadays that most people do and expect to complete honours as a matter of course.

That's without even getting into the realms of how much harder it was for these 400 to gain the entry score to get a place compared to today nor how it was impossible to obtain a qualification without sitting some exams. Melbourne had 3 universities then; 9 now.

I'm not suggesting of course that things must have been dumbed down so a much greater % of teenagers now go to tertiary institutions.;)

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Hi. It's a bit different in Australia. Your present qualification does not equate to Honours in Australia - this is a postgraduate year of study after completing your basic undergrad degree. This may help to explain it (note the section in bold font)

In Australia a Bachelor's degree is a three to five-year program. Entry to a number of professions, such as law practice and teaching, require a Bachelor's degree (a 'professional' degree). Other degrees, such as Bachelor of Arts don't necessarily elicit entry into a profession, though many organisations require a Bachelor's degree for employment.

A one-year "postgraduate" (With) Honours degree can be achieved as a consecutive stand-alone Bachelor (with) Honours degree following a Bachelor's degree in the same field. It is usually available only to students who achieve a distinction average in their undergraduate studies. Generally the (With) Honours degree involves completion of higher-level courses and the submission of a research thesis. In this way the Australian Honours degree differs from the English/Welsh Honours, which requires only the completion of a short so-called "dissertation" as part of the three-year Bachelor's degree.

The Honours program allows students to pursue an independent research project in an area of interest under the supervision of an academic staff member. Students acquire skills which will enable them to work without close supervision in a research environment in industry or government, or to proceed to a higher degree by research (such as a PhD).First-class and second-class (first division) is generally the standard required for entry into a PhD or very high research Master's program in Australia. In science, a second-class research honours or higher is generally a prerequisite for entrance to a PhD program (a Master's is an uncommon route).

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Thanks for your reply,

I'm aware that the route to getting an honours degree differs between the two countries, and that in Australia you can go onto a PHD from doing a one year honours. However, I'm still really confused as to how I can present my British honours degree on my CV when I taylor it for Australia.

Do I simply remove the (Hons) part on my CV or leave it there? I have read that a UK honours degree is equivalent to an Australian honours degree (with regard to them both being awarded with honours despite one taking an extra year) but i am still confused :rofl:

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

You need to remove the Hons from your CV when applying for Australian jobs. They most definitely are NOT equivalent, so whatever book you read that in, throw it away!

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads...ison-table.pdf

But it says on the British government website in the table that an Australian bachelors (with honours) degree is equivalent to a British honours degree...

So in Britain they're equivalent, but not in Australia? It seems strange that to be accepted onto a masters degree in the UK that Australians would need a bachelors with honours, too.

Maybe it's just Britain that draws this equivalence, I will look into Australia's side of things.

Here among many other British university websites it states that the equivalent of a British bachelors with honours at a 2.1 grade is an Australian bachelors with honours with distinction (between 70 and 79%)
http://www.aber.ac.uk/en/postgrad/ho...ty/noneuquals/


the UK clearly equates a British honours with an Australian honours, but I cannot find anything from Australia's side regarding this!

Also came across this old thread where one user stated

"If you have a first or a 2:1 from a UK university you'll be fine to be accepted onto a PhD program in Oz"
http://britishexpats.com/forum/austr...lasses-635200/

Surely I don't remove the "hons"?

finally, i've also had a skim through people's linkedins who studied at British universities and work in Australia, they have all put "with honours" for their 3 year degrees...

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

It's not correct to speak of BRITISH honours degrees as typically they are 3 years in England but must be 4 years in Scotland like they used to be in Australia and I presume still are?

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Sorry I should have said English :p

I remember hearing that Scottish degrees required four years of completion to receive Honours when I was thinking of applying to a Scottish university too.

The fact that Scottish Honours take 4 years, English Honours take 3, and Australian Honours take 4 just makes me think that it is correct that an honours degree here is in fact recognised, equivalently as an honours degree in Australia (regardless of the route/how many years it took to acquire it).

Also, an Australian BSc/BA without honours is actually unclassified and is equivalent to a British "ordinary degree"/"pass degree".

I am pretty sure spouseofscouse is wrong on this and that a Scottish or English honours degree is recognised as such in Australia and that is not necessary to remove the "hons" part on a resume/CV i.e. not necessary to downgrade an honours degree to an ordinary degree.

It's a fact that in the UK they equate an Australian honours with UK honours degree and I cannot imagine it only works one way.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

'Just don't tell them you got your honours degree in 3 years then if they are the same and you can get away with it. ;) Hons is hons is hons.

(this is meant to be a true story) Interviews for teaching positions in Glasgow when a councillor had to sit on the selection panel. The councillor on this particular set of interviews was from the Govan shipyards. Someone on the panel asked in discussion after one candidate had been interviewed if he had Hons. (you need to understand broad Glaswegian for this). Of course he has Hons' said the councillor, 'I seen them placed on the table'.:rofl:

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Hi, I've just jumped on here, although I now live in NZ, I have a BSc (Hons) Social Policy (First) from an English university but this does not equate to an Honours degree in New Zealand and am fairly sure it is the same in Australia. Even with this qualification they were very thorough in assessing before letting me take a post graduate honours year here.

The systems are very different and I think are much more based on the American system. That said I do like the flexibility here.

In regard to how to write you qualification on your CV, you certainly do not drop the Hons as it is the qualifications you have and it is recognised as being important certainly in the UK as it differentiates between those who successfully completed the dissertation and those who didn't. I write mine simply as

BSc (Hons) Social Policy, University of...., First

Then my NZ quals

BA Honours Sociology, University of Auckland 2:1 etc

Hope that helps

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Yes, when I applied for GTC registration (to teach in Scotland) I had to produce my certificates and I had to get in writing from U of M an outline of the syllabus for each subject I passed in my degree. They were extremely thorough and you would expect every employer or institution in Australia to do the same. As you said above, if you have an honours degree you say what it was and where it was from - and it will then be vetted.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Funnily enough it took me 4 years to complete because I did a year abroad in industry ha.

That has clarified my concerns about the format on the CV. Slightly off topic but are there actually any CV conventions that are to be used in Australia that we don't use here, or is it generally ok to send a British style CV out when job hunting?

Thanks :)

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

First thing to note is that its no longer a CV, its a Resume.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Well, they call it a resume, but what employers actually want is a CV. A resume is usually a 1-2 page summary, whereas here agents and employers seem to want chapter and verse which is very much CV territory.

As to the OP's question, I would put on exactly what it says on the certificate - that way you can't be accused of misrepresenting yourself at a later time.

I definitely, always use BSc (Hons) Engineering Science, Upper Second Class. I have stopped writing 2:1, as nobody seems to know what that is here, but Upper Second seems to work.

And nobody knows what a Desmond is either :(


S

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

I find it different in my occupation. I am a scientist - geoscientist with a 2:1 (Hons) from the UK. Not only is my degree recognised as a honours degree, but it is usually prefered by employers over a 4 year Australian degree. As someone that has been involved in recruiting grads and training them, I understand why.

For my occupation, we find that the fact many Aus grads have done subjects that make up their degree that have nothing at all to do with the subject is a serious hinderance to them.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

I just put "BA (Hons)"

Don't think anyone bothers checking anyway to be fair.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

True enough - I've been here 8 years, and never had anybody even ask to look at my certificates.

May be different for professional registrations though...


S

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Thanks for this; in that case I will write upper second providing that's what I do get. I also heard that if you write 2:1 or 2:2 this could be confused with a 'GPA score' which is incredibly low.

If I do get a 2:2 which I'm trying to ensure doesn't happen, would it be wrong to put 'second class honours degree' instead of inserting the word 'lower'?

I'm doing economics and also heard similarly that a 3 year Australian degree in economics without honours is a lot less rigorous and mathematical than the honours here in the UK which probably explains why all UK universities require an Australian honours to get into their Economics masters programs.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Re 2.

Aberystwyth University - Non-EU Qualifications

There is an international comparability system that countries follow. Enic-Naric

Australia, https://internationaleducation.gov.a...cognition.aspx

You have to pay, or you can use the Aberystwyth page for free.

How to write your degree, Degree Classifications - The Student Room - The Student Room

When I applied for my PhD here I had to explain the difference between UK and Aus. UK first is 70+, Aus is 90+, honours is not another year... Just put BA Upper Second-Class Honours, course and university. They will be impressed by Honours. If they want more info, give them your transcript and course syllabus.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

I've given you my response, and have no interest in arguing the toss. If you want to put Hons after your degree, then do it. You might want to hope that any Australian interviewing you who slogged through an additional year of honours study doesn't ask you what your research project was - because you'll get found out. Not the best impression to give at an interview, I'd have thought.

It is entirely up to you. But next time, try to avoid asking questions when you've already determined an answer to your satisfaction - it just pisses people off who've wasted time trying to help you :)

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Everyone has disagreed with your opinion that people with British degrees should remove the "hons" from their resume and it's clear that the way one achieves honours in Australia (through a research project) is not the same as how one achieves an honours degree in the UK (through a dissertation and a more rigorous albeit shorter length of study compared to an honours in Australia - the BA without honours in Oz is equivalent to an ordinary/pass degree in the UK), and even the conversion tables provided by the above poster have proved you wrong, but thank you for your input.

Cognitive Dissonance is Cognitive Dissonance :P wich is not uncommon, so no need to be "pissed off".

Now if you excuse me, I have exams to study for :)

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Congrats on your studies. But as someone who has hired ( and fired) a fair amount, nobody will care whether you had Hons, a 2.2 or got your dissertation approved by turning tricks in a hotel.

3 yrs after you start working, the only questions will be " who have you worked for and what have you done ?" Degrees will get you to the door but experience will kick the thing off of its hinges.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

So true.

BTW, I took classes with honours students at the start of my PhD and have told my kids not to bother doing the extra year unless they want to do a PhD, or if they need it to join a top-class company. As far as I could see the main outcome was a 15,000 word dissertation, which isn't worth an extra year unless you really need it. And as for double degrees, don't get me started.

Not that many Aussies do honours (10% max?), and I have found the interest in doing Master's a lot less than UK.

OP- for the first few years it may be worth putting the title of your dissertation on the resume. Mine (when dinosaurs walked the earth) was "The application of microstrip antennas to direct broadcasting by satellite'. I researched, designed , manufactured and tested two types of microstrip antennas. Even now I get the willies thinking about having to hand my dissertation in before my finals. It was so stressful!!!

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Thanks for that - I realise that a degree means nothing compared to experience and although currently my immediate objective is to get my foot through the door, I know the hard work of keeping up a good track record in employment (the real world) is what I will be judged on in the near future.

So many people have degrees now too, so they have lost their wow factor but I guess in a competitive job market where everyone has a degree then you also have to have one.

That dissertation title boggles my mind haha yes and the feeling of uncertainty which I'm currently going through with regards to not knowing what mark you will get!

So obviously the long-run emphasis is not so much on the grade you get but the experience you get after uni - but the thing is, in the UK many people who get a 2:2 are automatically filtered out from online job applications, resumes/CVs thrown in the bin etc and they find it hard to get a foot in the door. As i understand, a 2:2 is equivalent to "Credit" from an honours degree in Australia; I have tried searching as to whether the same sort of disregard for employees with such a grade occurs - but thinking about it, since the Oz honours is only open to those who did particularly well on their BA, I doubt the same happens over there.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

I think you'll find Australia puts a higher value on experience than perhaps the UK. I did not mean to sound flippant. My wife studied for her degree in Australia, part time whilst working full time in stressful blue chip environments. She kept getting told by her uni that she was a shoe in for honours but she said to me that she only wanted to be a CPA and once she was, the degree meant little to employers.

Glad to say she is a CPA now ( did most of the modules in the UK actually). My wife is a bit of a contradiction in Oz, because she is originally Asian ( Korean) descent the assumption is that she would be all paperwork and no experience, but she boosted her career massively by working full time and studying part time ( she was a mature student) and she has some very impressive brands on her resume now.

I used to think Australia was fairly unprofessional in its corporate approach compared to Europe, in fact it still is but we have been living in corporate UK for 5 yrs now and I can tell you that IMO working in Australia may not be a day at Disneyland but it's more relaxed than corporate UK and Europe.

Personally I think it is this attitude that is reflected in the Aussie approach to quals v experience ( obviously industry dependent). Anyone that says degree are worthless is wrong in my book but they have a limited worth.

In my ramblings, I actually forgot what I wanted to say regarding filtering. I think you are right, IME the general attitude amongst recruiters here is ' prove to me why I should put you forward' whereas in Oz it is ' tell me what you have done'. Having said that, my 'pond' in Oz is smallish and whilst not a huge fish, I'm not a minnow either, so my perception may be skewed.

I wish you best of luck anyway :)

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Did they not include in your 'more rigorous course' the need to avoid making sweeping generalisations?;)

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

My mistake, what I meant to say was that a 3 year British honours degree is more rigorous than a 3 year BA degree (without honours) in Oz.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Actually what I think I meant was that since it takes 4 years to get an honours in Oz, it must be more intense/rigorous receiving an honours in the UK in a shorter amount of time (that is, given that the UK and Oz equate both honours here and there to be of an equal education level).

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

It's a British Degree.

If it says Honours then yes it's honours.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Funny that in my experience a 4 year Engineering undergrad in Australia is considered a Masters in the UK. lol

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

It's all semantics. At the end of the day you sit in front of somebody and it comes down to whether you hit it off with the interviewers.

I understand what you mean about a 2ii as my nephew took 3 years to get a job in QS. Bear in mind that the UK economy tanked more than the Aus one during GFC. Now, he is getting approached after 2 years experience and his boss has asked him to give him a chance to better any offer.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

My understanding from doing a degree with hons was that the honours just means that part of the study is completed without direct instruction and is not taught. So you complete either a thesis or a dissertation. So it should not really matter whether that has been completed as part of a 3 year degree or as an extra year. To employers it should represent the same skill set. Does that make sense?

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

oh and on my cv/ resume i just wrote by degree as i would in the uk, and put down the university from which it was gained from.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Paralysis by analysis

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Yep. Just put down what it is where you received it. If you tried to equate it to whatever it is in Oz you might screw that bit up and be accused of fabricating your results. Keep it simple and be done with it.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

I hear CV more than resume here.

I have no idea what area the OP is in.

Possibly employers wouldn't care how you write it.

Uni degree = Higher education - tick in the box.

As so many people go to Uni now it's just another applicant.

Other things might be more important.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Indeed - noone has ever asked for my certificate - anywhere - if memory serves.

To be honest, sounds like the Australia Hons tag absolutely means more.
Almost equivalent to a MA in the sense of unsupervised work done. So a UK Hons might look better than it really is.
There are people who did no dissertation for their Hons in the UK, and the dissertation is the bit that people often remember or ask about - until a few years afterwards...in some fields.

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

In my experience, if you gain an Hons degree from wherever, then say it. Who cares whether it is comparable. If from a Scottish uni, it will have more credibility than a prestigious Ugandan one.

I thought that actually stating the class of degree (as in a business card qual'n) was incorrect unless in the narrative of a CV, (may be wrong here though and reflects a typical pommie desire not to boast!) but I see many pretentious peeps do, then when I meet them, I actually wonder how they got into uni in the first place, never mind getting a degree!

I have found that not mentioning the class leaves a talking point if raised, and if not, so what.

TD

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Me neither

It would be pretty clear within a few days whether you could do the job or not

Re: British Degree Class conversion in Australia
 

Steady on :lol: