MikeStanton

Even I'm an Australian citizen (oh, the irony of it.....!)

I believe that people who intend to stay in Oz should take out citizenship. Before anybody says it, when I took out citizenship, I did intend to stay!

Apart from showing commitment to your adopted country, it provides the following (found on the web):

1. The right to vote and be involved in electing governments;

2. The opportunity to stand for public office

3. The opportunity to seek employment in the Public Sector

4. The ability to travel on an Australian passport and re-enter the country more easily; and

5. The capacity to secure rights for children born overseas

Of these, 3. and 5. may be the most relevant. 3. as it increases job options (I'm not sure - but I think you have to be a citizen to gain employment in the federal government)

bondipom

Ceri there are some benefits including access to HECS (Student Loans). If one is eligible for citizenship as well as PR there are some restrictions on eligibility to HECS. With the announcement that schools need to fly the flag to get funding I would not be surprised to see other benefits brought into line with the HECS situation.

The Aussie government does not like uppity PRs not taking out citizenship. I would not be surprised to see more measure encouraging/forcing PRs to become Australians.

As for the question as to why not all take out citizenship, it is a mixture of pride, laziness and a mislead opinion that one loses ones British citizenship on becoming an Aussie.

There are some who would also have to renounce their original citizenship on becoming an Aussie.

Peter

Plus, it's only 2 years. Australia makes it incredibly easy for any idiot to take out citizenship, which IMHO, is a bad thing. Two years isn't anywhere long enough to ensure one's loyalty to the country.
Which is what citizenship implies, not passports of convenience.

Simone

3 is why my dad became one too.
He was going for a job with atsic, as building instructor in an aboriginal community.
I guess 5 was a good reason too, and voting (though compulsory voting is wierd, voting overal is of course a good right to have)

At the time, he couldn't stay a dual citizen, so he's now a foreigner in Holland, even though he's born here, cos he hasn't changed his citizenship back.
My mum did stay Dutch, so us kids could be dual (we were granted citizenship in 1995, and added too my dad's certificate)
Anyway, completely irrelevant for you lot, sorry of 'waffling on'



Hi BP

MikeStanton

I agree. I used to be very disappointed at the number of people who had lived in Oz for, say, 10 years+ but were not citizens. What were these people waiting for? Most were obviously going to stay in Oz, so why not show some damn commitment. It's a bit like those people who live together for years on end and don't get married. What are they waiting for, somebody better to come along?


BTW, my generous attitude to Oz today has been brought about by England's 4-2 whipping of Croatia in Euro2004. Although, I was appalled to read that an English fan was killed by a Croatian. Bastard.

Peter

Why they don't take out citizenship? My best mate back in Australia is a Kiwi. He feels there's no need. Plus, he thinks it's cool in his own way to be exempt from voting. I guess that's part and parcel of that special little relationship Australia has with New Zealand.

Naturally not being able to vote still doesn't stop him from bitching about one politician and the other.

Others don't take citizenship out from pride. Some countries still don't allow dual citizenship, much like Australia didn't before 2002.

It's five years from grant of PR here in Dubya Land.

bondipom

I find it rather rediculous the leading economies of the world denying each others citizens the right to live and work in each others countries. Keep the border checks and police checks but the restrictions placed by bureacracy seem to benefit the bureacrats processing visas rather than the people and business benefitting from migration.

The economic gain from such a movement of labour is a key part of the EU and just like trade in goods the end result is a net gain. The fearmongerers scares of mass uncontrollable movements of people have proved false.

Then there is nationality. Who gives a monkeys if one is British American or Australian. It is solely a piece of paper backed by the laws of the land. We are all now in a world economy and that means nationality will become blurred and irrelevant.

BTW MS sounds like you are getting sport obsessed. Read up on the stabbing and you will realise you sound a bit of a ignorant jingoistic xenophobe.

Megalania

That'd start a tax war. Just think of ordinary rif-raf being able to move to low tax regions on a whim.

JAJ

Australian citizenship certificates are not easily replaced in their original form.

However, if you do lose your certificate, you can apply on form 119 for a Certificate of Evidence of Australian Citizenship. The fee is currently AUD55.
http://www.immi.gov.au/allforms/pdf/119.pdf

The mayor's signature is an optional part of the process - not every certificate is signed this way. The important signature is the Minister's.

The same point about the Certificate of Evidence of Australian Citizenship applies to Simone and others who were included on a parent's citizenship certificate, which was normal practise before 1 July 2002.

Children born in Australia after 20 August 1986 may also find these certificates useful, as their Australian birth certificates do not prove their citizenship.

Jeremy

Peter

Further to what JAJ said, a valid passport remains the only thing which proves both citizenship and nationality (where such distinctions matter)

JAJ

A valid passport is not *conclusive* proof of citizenship, as the holder may have lost or been deprived of citizenship since it was issued. Or the passport may have been issued based on erroneous information, whether by accident or design.

There is no such thing as an 'Australian national' - only Australian citizenship has any legal recognition.

The US is different, as it is possible to be a US national but not a US citizen. People from the territory of American Samoa generally fall into this category.

Jeremy

Peter

I did write "where such distinctions matter", didn't I? And it matters in many, many places.

Still, a valid passport is as official as it gets when it comes to citizenship and nationality. I guess that's why countries use them as a travel document as opposed to a driver's license right?

bondipom

No evidence of that in the EU although it is not unknown for regions within the same country to outbid each other in subsidies for a company to setup. Something that has happened between states in Australia as well.

People inclined to move follow the career and wealth. Tax is just one element of that.

Simone

Cool, thanks!
Don't have AUD55 to spare right now though

BP, I have hardly any knowledge of this, but I have heard of Dutch people moving to Belgium in the past for tax reasons.
I think somethings changed though, I thought I heard, but not sure. I also thought Spain is now attractive for some people, but not sure....
(great help I am )

JAJ

Within the US and Canada there are significant tax differences between states/provinces. There are some differences in Australia, but less so as the fiscal system in Australia is more centralised.

UK based people who want a lower tax regime without moving too far could look at the Isle of Man.
http://www.gov.im

There is some immigration control on the IOM, but as far as I know they're quite willing to let people with good skills and employability settle there.

Jeremy