Australian Work Ethic
Nov 11th 2012, 6:48 am
#31
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 23,400
Re: Australian Work Ethic
The kiwi fruit are always left till last - and the big fat oranges but the little oranges and the bananas are bitterly fought over with the bananas in first place and I will snag two on a Monday morning for breakfast with my cereal 
The apples are slowly eaten through the week out of desperation. I hate peeling kiwi fruit so avoid them.
I do like my bananas.
The apples are slowly eaten through the week out of desperation. I hate peeling kiwi fruit so avoid them.
I do like my bananas.
Nov 11th 2012, 7:02 am
#32
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,230
Re: Australian Work Ethic
So you seem to be here to work hard, make a few quid and head off for the next thing. Which is totally fine. But you can't expect everyone to have the same attitude. Most people, especially aussies obviously, plan to stay here and to enjoy their life while doing so without necessarily obsessing about crawling up the corporate ladder.
Nov 11th 2012, 8:49 am
#33
Officially Bewildered
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW
Posts: 5,523
Re: Australian Work Ethic
Nov 11th 2012, 10:20 am
#35
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Not Brisbane
Posts: 1,210
Re: Australian Work Ethic
I've been in Melbourne since March, working for one of the big 4 banks.
I'd be very curious to hear about others experiences regarding the Australian work ethic. I spent many years in London and in New York, and I continue to be shocked with what I experience here.
I had my annual performance review recently and for my 'negatives' I was told I 'work too hard' and that it 'looks bad to finish work on weekends'. In almost 9 months, I've probably worked a net of 20 hours total over the weekend and work in the office to 6 or 630 rarely and only then to meet a deadline. In the USA or even the UK, my work effort here in terms of hours worked would be viewed as utterly lazy. I regularly witness people leave at 5 pm as if a school bell went off (despite deadlines), leaving work unfinished, or presenting something to senior executives that, frankly, if you tried in New York or London you'd likely be shown the door or given a personal development plan.
There also seems to be a strange sense of pride in NOT having qualifications - I've heard many say things like 'I wouldn't waste my time on an MBA' or 'I do compliance and never needed to study law formally' etc etc. Most of the ex-pats I work with have impressive credentials so perhaps some of this is just trying to justify not having them by some of the locals, but again I find this attitude strange.
The most common expression I hear weekly is 'I am not putting my hand up for that' and the amount of blaming others vs admitting you screwed up is unreal. I have been involved in some projects that would have been completed in two weeks in London or New York that are still going on, never progressing past a powerpoint (which is then reworked) presentation since no one will take accountability to actually deliver something.
Is this typical, or did I just land at an unusual bank or department? Something just feels a bit off to be working the least hours in my life, and making by far the most money, while being surrounded by people that seem to take no pride whatsoever in their professionalism or quality of their work.
*Note: Australia itself is great, I love Melbourne and all there is to do here, this is just a question about the Australia work ethic.
I'd be very curious to hear about others experiences regarding the Australian work ethic. I spent many years in London and in New York, and I continue to be shocked with what I experience here.
I had my annual performance review recently and for my 'negatives' I was told I 'work too hard' and that it 'looks bad to finish work on weekends'. In almost 9 months, I've probably worked a net of 20 hours total over the weekend and work in the office to 6 or 630 rarely and only then to meet a deadline. In the USA or even the UK, my work effort here in terms of hours worked would be viewed as utterly lazy. I regularly witness people leave at 5 pm as if a school bell went off (despite deadlines), leaving work unfinished, or presenting something to senior executives that, frankly, if you tried in New York or London you'd likely be shown the door or given a personal development plan.
There also seems to be a strange sense of pride in NOT having qualifications - I've heard many say things like 'I wouldn't waste my time on an MBA' or 'I do compliance and never needed to study law formally' etc etc. Most of the ex-pats I work with have impressive credentials so perhaps some of this is just trying to justify not having them by some of the locals, but again I find this attitude strange.
The most common expression I hear weekly is 'I am not putting my hand up for that' and the amount of blaming others vs admitting you screwed up is unreal. I have been involved in some projects that would have been completed in two weeks in London or New York that are still going on, never progressing past a powerpoint (which is then reworked) presentation since no one will take accountability to actually deliver something.
Is this typical, or did I just land at an unusual bank or department? Something just feels a bit off to be working the least hours in my life, and making by far the most money, while being surrounded by people that seem to take no pride whatsoever in their professionalism or quality of their work.
*Note: Australia itself is great, I love Melbourne and all there is to do here, this is just a question about the Australia work ethic.
a. don't do a good enough job during the day and know they need to make up for it?
b. need their head looked at, why the hell would you do more hours than you get paid for?
I think you should be glad you're no longer getting the pi$$ taken out of you by your employer
Nov 11th 2012, 10:56 am
#36
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 691
Re: Australian Work Ethic
So you seem to be here to work hard, make a few quid and head off for the next thing. Which is totally fine. But you can't expect everyone to have the same attitude. Most people, especially aussies obviously, plan to stay here and to enjoy their life while doing so without necessarily obsessing about crawling up the corporate ladder.
Nov 11th 2012, 10:59 am
#37
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 691
Re: Australian Work Ethic
I do whatever is required off me from 8.30 to 5pm, but I never feel compelled to stay beyond 5pm. People who feel compelled to regularly work longer than they get paid for either
a. don't do a good enough job during the day and know they need to make up for it?
b. need their head looked at, why the hell would you do more hours than you get paid for?
I think you should be glad you're no longer getting the pi$$ taken out of you by your employer
a. don't do a good enough job during the day and know they need to make up for it?
b. need their head looked at, why the hell would you do more hours than you get paid for?
I think you should be glad you're no longer getting the pi$$ taken out of you by your employer
Nov 11th 2012, 12:14 pm
#39
Mostly Harmless
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Semi-rural wonderworld, Brisbane
Posts: 15,109
Re: Australian Work Ethic
They are target #1 for me too. Our floor is more focused on the Social Club chocolates, bonus for me 
I hear that, time on train reading is good time 
Nov 11th 2012, 12:40 pm
#40
Fighting my corner
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 11,948
Re: Australian Work Ethic
I work the hours I'm given, for the pay I'm promised. I'll work overtime if it's paid but I won't work for free. I am not a charity. If an employer wants my time he must pay for it.
When I lived in the UK I noticed a lot of employers expected their staff to work regular overtime without pay. This is unacceptable and I simply refused to do it. The more free labour you given an employer, the more he will expect and the more he will take.
The only time I'll work without remuneration is when I choose to do so on my own initiative. In the past this has included going the extra mile for a valued client, covering emergency situations, and helping stressed colleagues to clear a backlog. I found my employer valued me more as a result, and rewarded me by increasing my autonomy.
Last edited by Vash the Stampede; Nov 11th 2012 at 12:44 pm.
Nov 11th 2012, 5:54 pm
#41
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 57
Re: Australian Work Ethic
Vash I think you have it spot on ,what gets to me is we're I work and my wife even if people are in the middle of things some just think its time to go and leave it for the few who will stop and finish it,as always its the same people every time who stop back.
Nov 11th 2012, 8:25 pm
#42
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 131
Re: Australian Work Ethic
I think it's a lot longer than "for now". The quantity of stuff in Australia is mind-boggling. As for the stats - they're the only thing we have so we have to go with them. And shit hitting fans? Are you kidding? The biggest pile of shit, heading towards the biggest fan on earth is in the US. $16 trillion debt, totally unrepayable, 320 million people with 14% real unemployment. Australia will be an oasis of calm bowling greens and suburban respectability compared with the US in 25 years' time.
If you are right and Australia continues to boom and maintain low unemployment things will be great. I've now lived through two other booms in two other countries and some of the warning signs are here - a housing boom, people 'investing' in properties that have increased in value at unsustainable rates, an economy dependent on commodity prices and a China that is working to source those commodities in places like Mongolia longer term, etc. This could go on for years though, just as people have been writing about the terrible US debt levels since it crossed 1 trillion in dollars.
Nov 11th 2012, 8:30 pm
#43
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 131
Re: Australian Work Ethic
It is a nice outlook really - since I've been here I've found I have more free time to work on business ideas and spend more time with my partner, so I definitely love the work life balance? In the US and UK to an extent I think the idea is if you are on a salary you work the hours needed to do a good job - if you are an hourly worker, then you certainly don't work extra time. It sounds like many here view salary work in a similar way, makes sense if that is the culture and it is really helpful to understand it better. I do, however, still think working a few minutes extra once in a while to do a quality job is a good thing though - it sounds like do when appropriate which is the key thing. Cheers
Nov 11th 2012, 8:53 pm
#44
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Australian Work Ethic
I was at a meeting on friday that was a kickoff meeting for a project. The meeting was put back and back for a year and a half. The project couldn't start without the kickoff meeting and it is quite a big project. The meeting finally happened and it was to discuss peoples roles within the project ie, what their title in the project was - nothing else, as well as when the next meetings would be scheduled. That took an hour.
Nov 11th 2012, 9:02 pm
#45
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,404
Re: Australian Work Ethic
Thanks, very useful to understand your perspective better.
It is a nice outlook really - since I've been here I've found I have more free time to work on business ideas and spend more time with my partner, so I definitely love the work life balance? In the US and UK to an extent I think the idea is if you are on a salary you work the hours needed to do a good job - if you are an hourly worker, then you certainly don't work extra time. It sounds like many here view salary work in a similar way, makes sense if that is the culture and it is really helpful to understand it better. I do, however, still think working a few minutes extra once in a while to do a quality job is a good thing though - it sounds like do when appropriate which is the key thing. Cheers
It is a nice outlook really - since I've been here I've found I have more free time to work on business ideas and spend more time with my partner, so I definitely love the work life balance? In the US and UK to an extent I think the idea is if you are on a salary you work the hours needed to do a good job - if you are an hourly worker, then you certainly don't work extra time. It sounds like many here view salary work in a similar way, makes sense if that is the culture and it is really helpful to understand it better. I do, however, still think working a few minutes extra once in a while to do a quality job is a good thing though - it sounds like do when appropriate which is the key thing. Cheers
One real issue I have with Australia is how little you can do and yet convince people you are working hard and very focussed on your job by these little things, such as following up on an email you sent. I guess there's no real way to measure someones performance even when it's obvious to colleagues.