aussiesoon

I’m sure there’s more and more, but it’s late and I can’t think because this winds me up so much. I hope we do end up in Australia, but with the current and increasing level of grief that’s coming in, I think my wife will buckle, and do what she’s told.

Now look for a happy thread after this depressing stuff I’ve spouted.[/QUOTE]


Here's another way to look at it (it's only taken me 18 months to think of this!). With all this emotional blackmail, ask your wife just to say 'If you loved me, you'd find a way to come out'. I'm planning on doing that the next time it gets too bad.

Oh, and looking at the photos of Oz, reminding yourselves of why you're going helps.

Rachel.

SteveBannister

Sick, isn't it!

Here's something I posted a long time ago. You're welcome to read it again...

My wife’s family and our closest friends know of our plans to emigrate. We have two kids, Luke who’s 11 and Lia who’s 5. My wife’s mum has another daughter who emigrated to South Africa nearly 30 years ago and she knows that we are doing what we think is best for us. She knows that she won’t be around for ever, and has said that she won’t try to stop us. She can’t come with us but there is a new retirement visa where we can sponsor her after two years and she can come out that way. It’s very important to leave with options for the parents open. They may not take you up on the offer later, but it makes the process so much easier as they know that they’re not going to say goodbye forever.

Emigrating can be a horrible process for some people. People have to get their skills assessed, some people have to raise money for the application, some people have to sell their houses, the worries of the medical, taking children out of school, giving up jobs, fear of starting a new life all over again, wondering if you really are doing the best for your family and so on. But all these things a ring your control. The only thing that isn't in your control is how your family is going to react. Unfortunately, people have been burdened with a thing called ‘emotion’, which triggers another burden that we have all got, guilt. Unfortunately, the two of these things together, can often take away self-esteem and self-worth. Families are very, very good at using the emotional blackmail card, when it to getting what they want. Whether they mean to or not, people can be very selfish. Tazzy is going through what a lot of people have gone through from parents or grandparents, and the emotional blackmail card in her case is the grandchild.

In my job, I meet a lot of people and of the older ones that I have spoken to, most of them have said that if they had the chance years ago, they would have done exactly the same thing. A lot of them also have children who have emigrated to Australia and have said that although they were wary at first, they knew that deep down, they would have a better life in Australia. It's funny, but a lot of the people who don't want their children to go are the same people that wished that they had jumped at the chance to go to Australia for £10 years ago. The ironic thing is that these people would also have been leaving family behind and may have been taking children or grandchildren with them. These are also the same people who would have told their parents that this was their life, and don't try and run it for me.

As we grow up, we get to know just how emotional our families are, we know what hurts them and we know what upsets them. We know what to say and what not to say. With this in mind, if you have an emotional family, I think it is best not to tell them, while you are in the process of fact-finding and applying. This only causes unnecessary stress, worries and arguments at a time when you don’t know if you’re going or not. If you don’t get in, you don’t have to tell them. If you’ve got emotional parents anyway, though, you’ll probably get the “How could you keep it from us?� line. Either way, you can’t win. And if you know you can’t win, don’t even try to win.

I’m going to start getting pretty blunt now, so be careful. My philosophy is not for everyone and I tend to say what others are afraid to but I know it works. Here goes…

The saying, “ You can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family�, is so true that most people are too frightened to use the saying to its fullest potential. Your parents will die eventually, I warned you this was going to get blunt, and if you keep putting off what you want to do, because of your family, eventually it will be too late to do what you wanted. I mean it's because you can only apply to emigrate to Australia up to the age of 45. After that you have to wait for retirement. People who have parents that die are normally over 45, and therefore it is too late to emigrate. Let’s have a look at ‘friends’. Friends are chosen very carefully, they are picked from millions of other people either because they are the same as you, like the same things, went to the same school, like the same music or are the complete opposite from you, but you see something in them that you like. It may be that a bit of your friend is a bit of who you want to be. Either way, there is something in that person that you can relate to, look up to or admire. If friends upset you, you can always find new ones. It's not the end of the world. You don’t have to go through life with the same friends, If they upset you, you either sort it out or you move on.

Family, on the other hand, you are born in to by accident of birth. Simple as that. You grow to love them because they feed, clothe and nurture you when you are young. When we grow older, we may not always like what they do. Just because they are ‘ family’, you do not have to put up with it. Family can be very hurtful, selfish, unfeeling, manipulative and stubborn. If this were a ‘friend’ you would dump them, wouldn’t you? Or at least, read them the riot act and try to sort it out so they don’t do it again. So if you can do this to a person who you have chosen to be a friend, why can’t you do this to a person who you had no choice to be with?

Emotion is a powerful thing that stops us doing or saying a lot of things. Sometimes we let our emotions get the better of us and we keep quiet for an easy life. We bottle it up. And the more we do this the easier it becomes to do it again. If we’re not careful, we find ourselves living our lives through someone else’s choices. We’re too easy to please the other person and not ourselves.

I do speak from experience, believe me! I haven’t seen my family for nearly 10 years and I couldn’t be happier. They have only seen my son a few times and have never seen my daughter. I have found a way to sort out which emotions I want to feel and which ones I don’t. It’s my wife who can’t understand how I can just ‘switch off’ certain things like that. She say’s every now and again, “Don’t you miss them?� and I can honestly say, ‘No’.

But it doesn’t have to get that far. If you nip this in the bud, there is no reason why a family cannot go on with you in another country. You don’t have to fall out before you go, just sort out before you go. They are going to get upset, they are going to get emotional and they may get angry. But you have to be strong and consistent for yourself and for them. Consistent for you, because if you show worries or doubt or you keep changing your mind, then they may play on this or think that you’ve not thought it through and it will prolong your own agony. You have to be consistent for them because deep down they want to know that you’ll be all right. This will be the final proof for them that you are ready to fly the nest and make it on your own. You may have thought that you had already flown the nest, but in your parents eyes, you were still not too far away, and they knew that you would always come back to the ‘nest’ if you were in trouble.

If none of this works and your family are still a babbling mess on the floor, then you have to use the only language that they understand, emotion. Play them at their own game, but play to win. Ask them what they would have done. Ask them to forget what you’re doing, and to put themselves in your shoes. Don’t ask them closed questions where they can answer with ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answers. Ask the open questions that start with ‘who, when, why, what, how and where’.

Set the scenario for them;

“Mum, Dad, imagine it was you in our shoes and you knew that your children were at risk on the streets and you feared for their future? Now suppose, just suppose you had the chance to bring your family up in a safer environment and give them a better standard of living and a better chance for the future because, let’s face it, things are only getting worse here, aren’t they?�

Then ask some open questions, like,

“How would you have felt, if you really thought you were doing the right thing but YOUR parents didn’t want you to go?�

“What would you have said to someone who tried to talk you out of wanting a better lifestyle for yourself and your children?�

“Why don’t you want me to give the kids a better chance in life?�

See what I mean? They can’t just answer ‘yes or no’ to any of these questions, it’ll get a discussion going and you’ll find out what their real ‘fears’ are. Once you find out, you can deal with them and put them to rest. (Their fears, not your parents!)

I don’t agree with the idea of only going for a year to see if you like it. Your parents will think it’s another hair brained scheme that’s doomed to failure, and you’ll be to cautious to set down roots or try anything permanent because in your head, you’re already going back. Say to them, “Look, if we go, there’s no reason why you can’t come out to us�. “Maybe once we’re there we could sponsor you to come out or maybe you could retire over here. After all, it would be a better lifestyle for you as well as for us�.

Well, I’ve waffled on enough and put the world to rights! You’re on your own now! Remember that YOU control YOUR life. Your grateful to your parents but you have you own family’s future to consider now. Remind them that if you had moved to Scotland or Spain, for example, if anything goes wrong in the family, by the time you make arrangements to travel home, you still wouldn’t be able to get home ‘till the next day. Same from Australia, it’s still only a day away, isn’t it?

Good luck,

Steve.

aussiesoon

Great post Steve. Thanks - lots to think about.

Rachel.

baggie

great post m8 think i will print it off and put it in the mothers day card...

fraser

It's a naughty word to me every time someone mentions it I break out into a cold sweat and start mumbling incoherantly about visas :scared: when will it be over..........................

bridiej

I've had an on/off relationship with my parents (mainly my Mum) for years, although it's been 300% better since I got married.

To be honest I am so used to snidy remarks and comments, and if any kind of negativity starts up I will just leave her to it.

I guess it's slightly easier for us as we havent got kids yet so the "you're taking my grandkids away" thing wont work.

lynnlovessun

Ahhhhh but theres always the 'your taking my potential grankids away' thing isn't there!!!

My mum was gutted at 1st but now acts more interested and genuinley asks about the progress of our application. I am also proud of her as I have overheard her defending our decision to move to Oz to friends or relatives who say 'how can she move so far away?' My mum has answered back that the move is for the best as we have far more opportunities in Australia - ie my husband who is in manufacturing engineering would find it near impossible to get another job if the one he was in was to end - who wants to stay in the same job all their life anyway? Deep down she's very sad and I think the worst will come nearer to November when we actually probably move. I am also dreading living in such close proximity (we are moving in around May when our house sells to save money!)

We also don't have kids but will probably try to start a family as soon as we are settled in Australia (ie a year down the line)

Good luck everyone!
Lynn

Devlin

I've been reading this thread with interest as it is a similar situation for us, except in reverse. We moved to the UK 4 years ago and my MIL hates the fact that we moved away from Oz.

Try all the guilt trips above and add the constant insults of us being "unAustralian" and only being here for the money. I would've thought it would be easier after 4 years, but if anything it's worse!

She tried to make us promise we wouldn't have kids in the UK too! As we have no plans to go back this looks like being a problem for many years to come.

Another issue is that Aussie expats are treated as traitors by those still there, at least the Brits don't seem to have the same stigma attached to them by their own citizens.

Dicko

Wow thanks for all the replies, it really is a nightmare situation.
I wouldn't mind if they were unable to afford to come and see us, we have told them we are going to give them the money for flights for their first trip, and because they are retired they can come for 3 months.
All we get is "I'm not flying that far!", and this is probably the worst time for us at the moment as we are struggling selling the house and it is really stressful and we need all the moral support we can get.

But we are staying strong, and good luck everyone else who is going through the mill at the moment.

Thanks again
D,K,J,B,J

marson

Excellent post Steve, you've really put a lot of thought into it. A couple of extras to add to my arsenal now....

Laurie1st

Do your wife and I have the same parents?

scoobydoo

We had all the stuff from my M-I-law and F-I-law.....making us feel guilty, grand child being taken away, etc, etc. We came anyway as we had to do it for ourselves.

But get this.......when we decided to come back to the UK, the in laws had visited, decided it was OK here in Aus, wanting to buy themselves a holiday home here (with us buying it as they were not residents!! We wern't going to!).....they said to us "are you sure you know what you are going back to". "you'll come down to earth with a bump", "what do you want to go back there for" I realised they are the most selfish people!!!! All they wanted was what was right for them!!

So what I am saying is please don't be influenced by all the guilt trip cr@p relatives can put on you, try to show that you understand their feelings of course, but do what YOU want to do.

Vinny van Gogh

Well,, on the other side of the story..... as a father and future FIL....our "kids" are flying out to Sydney 1/6/2005. And for the past 18months we have been on their backs...we decided that we should not have to be parted by 11000 miles it is absolutely not fair. Mums and dads should be near their children and future grand children....snag is the Oz government do everything they can to stop us joining them ASAP.
Grumpies who whine about loosing family should get pro-active!

Albaus

It's always the same story when you move abroad, the point is you have to do what is right for you.

Assume you have only one life, and live it accordingly.

13 years ago when I first told my mum I was going to America (where we lived for four and a half years before moving to Australia) she cried. She was upset, I hated making her upset. I went anyway. One thing my mum always lived by though, she wanted us to have better lives than she did. We were brought up to expect just a little more than my parents had.

Maybe that's the difference - parents who want their children to do really well accept big changes, including moving abroad. Parents who only want their children to follow in their footsteps and stay close to home do not. I guess it all comes down to how much you love your children. Do you love them more than yourself, enough to let them live whatever life they choose - however painful that may be for you , however much you disagree with their choices? Do you want their happiness above your own?

Or do you only love them enough to have them live the life you choose?

I know if my children choose to live far away from me it will be painful, but I know I will accept it. As my mum did. Because I love them more than I love myself. Which is as it should be.

Regards

Born2tri

[QUOTE=Albaus]It's always the same story when you move abroad, the point is you have to do what is right for you.

Hi thought what you said made sense, my Mum has always lived here and hates her life has done for the past 15yrs but still wants me and my family to stay and be the same as her, which i do feel comes down to being a bit envious that we are doing something else with our lives, as trying to make me feel guilty she did say "she could never ever leave her mother", my reply to that was to say that "she can't make me feel guilty that i can as i am doing this being a mother myself and feel i want more for my children". Hoping her attitude changes as it could have a positive effect on her life also if she stopped being so negative.
My MIL is the other way on we are the only family she has left living near as her other 3 children have all emigrated to different parts of the world and she cant wait for us to go as she sees it as another place for her to visit.
Just hope that attitude rubs off on mine or feel she will miss out.