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Re: Australia + Global Warming
Originally Posted by martinw01908
(Post 4352473)
Spot on post. Global warming is the biggest excuse / smokescreen to tax us more the worlds politicians have ever come up with. It snowed in Victoria recently. Coldest November in 100 years. How strange. 'Must be global warming then'.
But wait.... it was that cold 100 years ago - can't be that out of the ordinary then. As the Murphsters said: we are arrogant to assume that now we are here that the earth should stop changing. I'm glad John Howard has put Australia's interests and economy ahead of all this panic about global warming. Even if it we were proven that we were affecting this process, whatever Australia does now will be dwarfed by China or America anyway so would have no affect. Already Australia is quite green with solar heating and lighting anyway! |
Re: Australia + Global Warming
Originally Posted by Amazulu
(Post 4352487)
And I refer you back to my post. The 'ists' are divided. I don't think anyone can say for certain whether this is GW and is caused by man. As I dont have a Phd in Meteorology so definitely cannot draw conclusions.
I would guess that climatology has more in common with the physics of energy than meteorology. PS This was written before the UN report was published but not posted due comfuser Blue Screen of death (You know, the one that XP doesn't get....). |
Re: Australia + Global Warming
Okay, i have been reading the headlines from the IPCC report......
Climatic changes seen around the world are "very likely" to have a human cause, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has concluded. And it is likely that i may be eating my words for dinner tonight, of course i have no idea of the motives or politics of the IPCC and its members but this is reported to have been put together by thousands of scientists from accross the globe so i am guessing it carries some weight. But i am not sure it changes anything with regard to my argument on the motives of our governments and their delight in finding a new way to tax us. The UK yesterday starting charging an extra £40 tax on internation flights because Gordon Brown said "Airlines should pay more for damaging the environment." The funny thing is that it is £40 for economy and £80 for business class, now if this tax was purely to help save the enviroment then are we to presume that business class passengers burn more carbon while in the air than the 'chavs' in the back? That makes no sense at all. And i notice the very deliberate phrases being used that the airlines are being charged extra, not the passengers. Of course we will pay for it and it is a bit pathetic for the government not to acknowledge this and still deny it is a charge on the public to try and stop the less well off people in this country from flying. The extra money raised from this, how is it going to repair the enviroment? It is stated that it is going straight into Gordon Browns pot, so therefore will be spent on ususal government spending including helping to pay for the war in Iraq which i am guessing has a much bigger carbon footprint that say the Jones familys holiday to Cyprus does? I am willing to believe in mans contribution to climate change but i am not sure i am willing to reduce my own quality of life while our governments are not playing their own part in this. I am not happy about the prospect of going back to the 1950's lifestyle while the rich and privilaged carry on enjoying the modern world but i am sure this is exactly what is going to happen. |
Re: Australia + Global Warming
But i am not sure it changes anything with regard to my argument on the motives of our governments and their delight in finding a new way to tax us. The UK yesterday starting charging an extra £40 tax on internation flights because Gordon Brown said "Airlines should pay more for damaging the environment." The funny thing is that it is £40 for economy and £80 for business class, now if this tax was purely to help save the enviroment then are we to presume that business class passengers burn more carbon while in the air than the 'chavs' in the back? That makes no sense at all. |
Re: Australia + Global Warming
All the increased airport duty tax does is to line Gordon Browns pockets. So he can spend it on whatever he chooses. None of this tax is being earmarked for any kind of green measures to reduce CO2, its not even being earmarked for spending on research.
This government is forever dreaming up new ways to tax us ( to pay for the vastly increased public spending bill since 1997) and this one is very easy and convinient. There ought to be a rule that governments must ringfence the tax income to only be spent on the issue its taxed on. EG: Car tax to be spent on roads, Tobacco tax to only be spent on healthcare and Green taxes only to be spent on environmental projects. What environmental projects have Labour announced lately? The only one I heard about was that if you were to be very green and put a wind turbine on your house they will view it as a home improvement which will then put your house further up the council tax band and cost you more. The only party to tax you to go green! Thanks Gordon! |
Re: Australia + Global Warming
[QUOTE=The Murphsters;4349496]I know that many independent experts on the subject of global warming state that man contributes to it in a very small and insignificant way.
Global Warming is a natural process of the earth that has been going on for millions of years. remember the world was covered in ice not too long ago, how do you think it melted? global warming! Our planet has been shifting and moving and changing ever since it first came into being, it is an evolving planet. I think we are arrogant to assume that now we are here that the earth should stop changing. Yes, the world was covered in ice not that long ago, and the earth has been slowly warming up since then, but since the industrial revolution the earth's average temperature has rocketed, rather unnaturally. Its fairly easy to make the connection. All our efforts should be focussed on learning to adapt with new conditions that are going to affect our lives, trying to stop it happening is short sighted and stupid to be quite frank. I remember not too long ago the greens were harping on about climate change and ozone layers etc.. every major Goverment in the world would not have a word of it, they had the experts, they knew that man never contributed that much to the problem. What has changed? As soon as someone ushered the magic words "Green Tax" the goalposts were moved. Trying not to stop it happening is short sighted and stupid. Quite honestly as far as governments go, in this matter, and in a lot of others, the government is not the person to be listening to, they always have an "expert" to suit themselves. The governments of various countries are only taking notice now because it is costing them billions to clean up the results of these climate changes, and the way things are going, if something isn't done soon to try and slow this process down, its going to cost them a lot more. I'm not a scientist, so I could be wrong, and hope I am. Dolly:( |
Re: Australia + Global Warming
Originally Posted by temptininnit
(Post 4353973)
They do because they occupy more space on the aircraft, there are more passengers per cubic metre in cattle class.
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Re: Australia + Global Warming
Originally Posted by The Murphsters
(Post 4353941)
Okay, i have been reading the headlines from the IPCC report......
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6321351.stm And it is likely that i may be eating my words for dinner tonight, of course i have no idea of the motives or politics of the IPCC and its members but this is reported to have been put together by thousands of scientists from accross the globe so i am guessing it carries some weight. But i am not sure it changes anything with regard to my argument on the motives of our governments and their delight in finding a new way to tax us. The UK yesterday starting charging an extra £40 tax on internation flights because Gordon Brown said "Airlines should pay more for damaging the environment." The funny thing is that it is £40 for economy and £80 for business class, now if this tax was purely to help save the enviroment then are we to presume that business class passengers burn more carbon while in the air than the 'chavs' in the back? That makes no sense at all. And i notice the very deliberate phrases being used that the airlines are being charged extra, not the passengers. Of course we will pay for it and it is a bit pathetic for the government not to acknowledge this and still deny it is a charge on the public to try and stop the less well off people in this country from flying. The extra money raised from this, how is it going to repair the enviroment? It is stated that it is going straight into Gordon Browns pot, so therefore will be spent on ususal government spending including helping to pay for the war in Iraq which i am guessing has a much bigger carbon footprint that say the Jones familys holiday to Cyprus does? I am willing to believe in mans contribution to climate change but i am not sure i am willing to reduce my own quality of life while our governments are not playing their own part in this. I am not happy about the prospect of going back to the 1950's lifestyle while the rich and privilaged carry on enjoying the modern world but i am sure this is exactly what is going to happen. 1st class passengers occupy over twice the space of an ecomony passenger, and reduce the capacity of aircraft significantly. The A380 will be able to carry 853 pax in a single class configuration but only 555 in a three class configuaration. Taxation on carbon use has two potential effects - reducing demand and offsetting damage. The first of these should be achieved to some degree, though the second is a matter of time. Climate change deniers need to swallow their pride. No matter what governments do, you have a vote, and your actions count. Take responsibility. |
Re: Australia + Global Warming
Originally Posted by NedKelly
(Post 4356361)
The space is irrelevent, it's the weight that's important.
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Re: Australia + Global Warming
Originally Posted by The Murphsters
(Post 4349496)
I think we are arrogant to assume that now we are here that the earth should stop changing.
t! Far, far more arrogant to assume that our activities have no effect. Still, many of the deniers will carry on denying as they are too invested in their argument to care whether it was right. |
Re: Australia + Global Warming
Originally Posted by ShozInOz
(Post 4356648)
Incorrect. Both are relevant. Think about it.
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Re: Australia + Global Warming
Originally Posted by NedKelly
(Post 4357213)
Unless you take into account the weight of the air in the space I don't see how the space is important. But I stand to be corrected by better minds!
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Re: Australia + Global Warming
[quote=dollydaydream2;4356140]
Originally Posted by The Murphsters
(Post 4349496)
I know that many independent experts on the subject of global warming state that man contributes to it in a very small and insignificant way.
Global Warming is a natural process of the earth that has been going on for millions of years. remember the world was covered in ice not too long ago, how do you think it melted? global warming! Our planet has been shifting and moving and changing ever since it first came into being, it is an evolving planet. I think we are arrogant to assume that now we are here that the earth should stop changing. Yes, the world was covered in ice not that long ago, and the earth has been slowly warming up since then, but since the industrial revolution the earth's average temperature has rocketed, rather unnaturally. Its fairly easy to make the connection. All our efforts should be focussed on learning to adapt with new conditions that are going to affect our lives, trying to stop it happening is short sighted and stupid to be quite frank. I remember not too long ago the greens were harping on about climate change and ozone layers etc.. every major Goverment in the world would not have a word of it, they had the experts, they knew that man never contributed that much to the problem. What has changed? As soon as someone ushered the magic words "Green Tax" the goalposts were moved. Trying not to stop it happening is short sighted and stupid. Quite honestly as far as governments go, in this matter, and in a lot of others, the government is not the person to be listening to, they always have an "expert" to suit themselves. The governments of various countries are only taking notice now because it is costing them billions to clean up the results of these climate changes, and the way things are going, if something isn't done soon to try and slow this process down, its going to cost them a lot more. I'm not a scientist, so I could be wrong, and hope I am. Dolly:( I forgot to mention that the Bush administration has for years been assiduously rubbishing, denigrating and in some cases sacking scientists in many official research labs who have the temerity to give the best interpretation of the data coming in over the last century. Try Googling I think Hansen of NOAA, who was subject to the full blast from the oil/Bush power base. |
Re: Australia + Global Warming
What happened to the hole in the Ozone layer, that was supposed to kill us all but now their saying it does'nt exist or its not as bad as they thought, all these doomsday predictions by scienstists are wrong, even if they are right by the time global warming gets to be a serious problem in 50 - 100 years l'll be dead so l don't care.:p
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Re: Australia + Global Warming
I work in IT and a friend of mine has just come back from a conference where they were given a talk by a futureoligist. My friend called me to tell me about the talk because he was discussing the future of Australia and how there are thoughts that one day soon Aus may be uninhabitable.
He claims that within the next 25 years that we will be able to alter the climate using technololgy, he discussed something about fixing the hole in the ozone layer and the work that is already being carried out to tackle global warming with technology. Its strange that i have never really thought of the possibilities of technology being the answer to this problem but i guess that it will be. If the government announced that extra taxes were going straight into programmes to try and solve the problem i would have no issues with paying. I only object to the extra taxes just being used to keep the national debt down and fund wars overseas. |
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