slapphead_otool

ould agree, NZ has taken what its got and done something with it.

Australia has done the same. Australia has a lot more to go with, so its done better.

I don’t think the dream is over in either country, but it depends upon what you dream about.

Am Loolah

I perused this thread earlier - and have never been to Oz - but would like to.

I married a Kiwi in London 15 years ago. We've known each other for 22 years.

We moved to NZ nearly 3 years ago with our 4 kids.

I love NZ - I also loved London - where I grew up. I hated Cornwall where we spent 10 miserable years.

It's very much each to their own and what you make of it.

NZ for us is space, lifestyle (and yes we have one), we live in a great place, one street back from the beach, have made some wonderful friends - predominately Kiwis, far better climate than Cornwall () and are just generally happier.

Our kids are now 17, 14, 11 and 7, the 14 year old is on about traveling overseas for Uni and that's fine. We have started our own business, we had our own business in London and then Cornwall so makes no odds to us. If our business goes tits up and our savings disintegrate then we will sell the house and buy a bus and live in that whilst travelling round and round, um and round again!

It makes no real odds to me, I love the country, the scenary and the people, the lifestyle, the weather etc. Sure we want to holiday in Oz, and Fiji and Rarotonga ... but we want to live here ...

It's not that bad honestly!

Devlin

Amazulu, I think you equate capitalism to materialism. I don't. Materialism is what afflicts people when they constantly believe that having more and better material possessions will increase their standard of living. After you reach a certain material standard, this just isn't true.

It is also my experience that materialism is worse in Australia than it is in the UK. That's not to say that it doesn't exist in the UK (or even Denmark), but it means I have found it easier to associate myself with people who are less materialistic and am happier with that situation.

Amazulu

Materialism is a cornerstone of capitalism - without it there is no economy.

Disagree, I find Aussies less materialistic than the Poms (or Saffas for that matter). I've met/know Aussies who are extremely wealthy and I would never have know it unless I was told.

You can be materialistic and still be a good person - you don't have to be both. I agree with you that being materialistic and being a prick with it is not good.

Genesis

No its not. Some of us like it here. NZ has a raft of problems like anywhere but some of us are quite content here.

BadgeIsBack

Agreed. Actually, many of the vaguely materialistic people I know are just into gadgets - it's a function of their work.

I've met no real keeping up with the Joneses here at all - but I don't live in suburbia - a real breeding ground for this.

Around here people are actually quite wealthy but hide it well. They wear dust-encrusted yard boots, and are as scruffy as hell.

kiwi_child

I don't doubt for a minute that you are correct. All I'm saying is that materialism has been/and is fuelled by capitalism, and that capitalism is just a model that's been adapted. When I referred earlier to a lack of materialism at a societal level, I was pointing to the difference in social justice policies between countries like UK and OZ and the Scandinavians and French etc.

Capitalism is also to blame for the global warming problems we have. Over stimulation of the market by over production and over utilisation of our worlds' resources; and making things all the more throwaway (and unrepairable). What promotes this? Greed. The very same thing that led to the GFC. Capitalism is a bad dodgy model that is always needing to be patched up and offers ever decreasing amounts of social justice. We, as a planet need to come up with something more sustainable and humane.

the troubadour

There are levels of materialism and the some see it as becoming a bit of a problem when the creed of consumption becomes the focus of a society a religion of sorts if you like..which in itself is totally unfulfilling in that most needs will never be met...advertisers are the real deal these days in getting people to think they need more..and not to say just plain wasteful.
Australia is high up the stakes indeed of material consumption together with USA,a little odd your perceptions are that the UK is more materialistic..find the opposite to be true..although thanks to events back in the eighties the UKs level of materialism did take off to a large extent.

the troubadour

A breeding ground indeed.Am glad you added that or some folks may have the idea Australia is an enlightened,egalitarian society where the good folk would never in a million years go into debt over their eye balls in order to prove to themselves and others that they can go one better.

the troubadour

My experience also and my experience is that it is far easier to find company with folk in UK or mainland Europe for that matter whom give only limited coinage to the creed of materialism not because they are required to do so owing to fiscal restraints but by desire to limit consumption.

the troubadour

Rather an odd statement to say the very least to state the world would end up like P.D.R.Korea. If people returned to the levels of consumption of past times in fact we would be a healther and not to say far happier planet.
Just consider the cost people put themselves through in the search for continued material gain? Most things are not made locally at home anymore,anywhere.
So many folk enslave themselves on the tread mill unable to stop falling victims to the spin to purchase newer,better, cooler of whatever item they are trying to flog,from autos to white goods and technology to houses.
Could not life have a little more meaning?

BadgeIsBack

Depends on ya mates I reckon, and who you work with.

People will always seek like-minded people out.

The materialism in my life is a reflection of the need to maintain a large block and or learn new skills...recent interest (and acquisition) of media gadgets are a necessity as the kids scratch all their DVDs... and I'm over it - OVER it!

BadgeIsBack

You are very welcome Sir!

Devlin

Fair enough, We disagree on this. Capitalism existed without rampant materialism in the past and can do again in the future. I also believe that materialism equates with greed and selfishness and therefore is not a good human attribute.

I also believe that some of this mainstream materialism is really only around due to the amount of debt that is available in the modern developed world. As you have pointed out there are many wealthy people who aren't materialistic and there are also many less than wealthy people who are.

the troubadour

All very fair comments.