This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
Nov 2nd 2011, 1:13 am
#61
Victorian Evangelist
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Melbourne, by the beach, living the dream.
Posts: 7,704
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
Amen to that.
My thinking is that Melbourne has a lot of the good things that London had (art galleries, theatre, great restaurants, fantastic CBD. stunning city parks, etc) some great things that London did not have (beaches, the bay, very rural areas within an hour or so's drive) and not so many of the bad things that London had (high burglary rate, car theft, perceived fear of violent crime etc).
I can't put a $ value on any of this....
BB
My thinking is that Melbourne has a lot of the good things that London had (art galleries, theatre, great restaurants, fantastic CBD. stunning city parks, etc) some great things that London did not have (beaches, the bay, very rural areas within an hour or so's drive) and not so many of the bad things that London had (high burglary rate, car theft, perceived fear of violent crime etc).
I can't put a $ value on any of this....
BB
Nov 2nd 2011, 1:45 am
#62
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
Amen to that.
My thinking is that Melbourne has a lot of the good things that London had (art galleries, theatre, great restaurants, fantastic CBD. stunning city parks, etc) some great things that London did not have (beaches, the bay, very rural areas within an hour or so's drive) and not so many of the bad things that London had (high burglary rate, car theft, perceived fear of violent crime etc).
I can't put a $ value on any of this....
BB
My thinking is that Melbourne has a lot of the good things that London had (art galleries, theatre, great restaurants, fantastic CBD. stunning city parks, etc) some great things that London did not have (beaches, the bay, very rural areas within an hour or so's drive) and not so many of the bad things that London had (high burglary rate, car theft, perceived fear of violent crime etc).
I can't put a $ value on any of this....
BB
If you could teleport all that back to the UK then I'd do it, anywhere, but there's no guarantees and we are established. I think the reality is that many people don't have enough to keep them here and the investment of returning is well worth it, has to be, infact. How can you be sure? Even a nagging doubt might prove it.
Nov 2nd 2011, 2:55 am
#63
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
I've visited a house thus afternoon and the place was littered with paintings, photos, skiing, polo, and tennis: all big concerns. School
Presidents, pilots, a judge, farmer, photos of military ancestors, head of family with members of Royal Family. A young, almost effete, doctor introduced as a cousin once removed, clear English accent. A bloke in crimson corduroy trousers - haven't seen that since the British military academies...
I find it incredible that in a country of Bogans that there is so much culture...finesse and style...I wish some of you could have been there!
It felt like being back in the old country..
Presidents, pilots, a judge, farmer, photos of military ancestors, head of family with members of Royal Family. A young, almost effete, doctor introduced as a cousin once removed, clear English accent. A bloke in crimson corduroy trousers - haven't seen that since the British military academies...
I find it incredible that in a country of Bogans that there is so much culture...finesse and style...I wish some of you could have been there!
It felt like being back in the old country..
Nothing cultured or stylish about crimson cords. The revolting sleazy uncle has always worn such things, normally with bright yellow socks. He has no finesse whatsoever and the nearest he's been to anything military is watching the Changing of the Guards.
The term "emigration failure" is interesting - it's as if it's commonly accepted that emigration is a forever move and you are a 'failure' if you don't live happily ever after. We have recently returned from 4.5 years in Oz, I don't see our emigration as a failure. On the contrary, experiencing a different culture has hugely enriched our lives as a family. I will never regret going, neither will I regret coming back. Many of the reasons stated for returning rang true for me, I feel more at home and connected to England and Yorkshire in particular. However we will most likely end up as ping pom poms, at some point in the future we will most certainly live in Australia again. I feel very privileged to have that choice 
Yet again on this thread the simplistic attitude of many astounds me, you love England therefore you hate Australia and vice versa. Surely most people will find things they love/hate/like/dislike/feel ambivalent about in both countries!
Yet again on this thread the simplistic attitude of many astounds me, you love England therefore you hate Australia and vice versa. Surely most people will find things they love/hate/like/dislike/feel ambivalent about in both countries!
Nov 2nd 2011, 3:38 am
#64
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Nov 2nd 2011, 6:16 am
#65
Greetings Traveller
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 278
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
When we lived in the UK, our nearest town was Walsall (no culture) and the nearest city was Birmingham (lowbrow culture). For anything decent we had to visit London or Edinburgh (the Fringe was good fun; wanted to see the Military Tattoo but never got around to it).
Consequently I spent a lot of time listening to Radio 4. In fact, I found it was the only channel worth listening to.
Consequently I spent a lot of time listening to Radio 4. In fact, I found it was the only channel worth listening to.
Also a radio 4 downloader here, amongst others.
Nov 2nd 2011, 7:42 am
#66
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 95
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
Your correct on this one Badge.... Everytime I have a moment of financially induced weakness, I'll remember where I live and also my mind changing time in Chester... Especially as trips to places like Chester were driving my original thoughts re possible retirement to the UK.
Cant easily buy what we have here in Melbourne.
Cant easily buy what we have here in Melbourne.
Nov 2nd 2011, 7:50 am
#67
Banned
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: The REAL Utopia.
Posts: 9,910
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
You must have had your fingers crossed when you we're typing that, you don't honestly expect us to believe that anywhere in England can give you as much and heaven forbid MORE than anywhere here ? 
Nov 2nd 2011, 8:23 am
#68
Victorian Evangelist
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Melbourne, by the beach, living the dream.
Posts: 7,704
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
Melbourne gives us more now. 10 years ago it would have been London easily.
BB
Nov 2nd 2011, 10:17 am
#69
Banned
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: The REAL Utopia.
Posts: 9,910
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
Nov 2nd 2011, 10:25 am
#70
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,526
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
Nov 2nd 2011, 10:39 am
#71
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
Seems to me you have to first define what you as the individual needs...then mileage will differ ..
I've had a realization - I like the Welsh borders - if you could excise Birmingham and replace it with Melbourne CBD and inner North and East I'd be quite happy!
I've had a realization - I like the Welsh borders - if you could excise Birmingham and replace it with Melbourne CBD and inner North and East I'd be quite happy!
Nov 2nd 2011, 10:44 am
#72
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
Nov 4th 2011, 3:48 am
#73
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
It's very easy to work out if people are going to stay here or move back. You can work it out in the first 6 months of them arriving.
Unrealistic expectations is one of the first things you pick up on. "Why can't I live in a giant mansion by the harbour with views of the bridge having just sold my 3 bedroom semi in an inner city location in the UK?" "Why is fuel not free?". "Despite the fact that this chicken breast as 4 times the size of a Tescos chicken breast I fail to understand why it is 4 times the cost!".
Second is not having committed emotionally to the move before arriving. This becomes really obvious in the way that expats start talking about family, friends and Tescos. Yes you WILL miss them that much and did you really think that because they speak English here they are the same as you? This is a foreign country after all!
Thirdly is lack of integration skills. You need to make enough close friends to provide emotional support. If you do not have a track record of being able to find and keep very good friendships then it will be a struggle. Add to that the complex and deep cultural differences and it is totally understandable why people struggle.
There is a fourth, more complex indicator as well. Often I find people who come here talk about the move as if they thought moving here would change them. Somehow make them a more relaxed, easy going, happier person. You cannot migrate away from yourself!
The fact is that Australia offers a great deal. In my view more than the UK and so we chose to start our family here. But the debate is ultimately pointless because we all feel the need to justify the decisions we make. Nobody will ever convince me that the North of England (where I am from) is a better place for my children than Melbourne, nor would I expect to convince someone over there otherwise.
And yes, I am very close to my UK based family. My parents are still alive, I am the eldest of 4 children, I have two of my own children who wish they could see their grandparents, and count at least one UK based couple as some of my best friends. But I still believe Melbourne is the right place for us to live.
Unrealistic expectations is one of the first things you pick up on. "Why can't I live in a giant mansion by the harbour with views of the bridge having just sold my 3 bedroom semi in an inner city location in the UK?" "Why is fuel not free?". "Despite the fact that this chicken breast as 4 times the size of a Tescos chicken breast I fail to understand why it is 4 times the cost!".
Second is not having committed emotionally to the move before arriving. This becomes really obvious in the way that expats start talking about family, friends and Tescos. Yes you WILL miss them that much and did you really think that because they speak English here they are the same as you? This is a foreign country after all!
Thirdly is lack of integration skills. You need to make enough close friends to provide emotional support. If you do not have a track record of being able to find and keep very good friendships then it will be a struggle. Add to that the complex and deep cultural differences and it is totally understandable why people struggle.
There is a fourth, more complex indicator as well. Often I find people who come here talk about the move as if they thought moving here would change them. Somehow make them a more relaxed, easy going, happier person. You cannot migrate away from yourself!
The fact is that Australia offers a great deal. In my view more than the UK and so we chose to start our family here. But the debate is ultimately pointless because we all feel the need to justify the decisions we make. Nobody will ever convince me that the North of England (where I am from) is a better place for my children than Melbourne, nor would I expect to convince someone over there otherwise.
And yes, I am very close to my UK based family. My parents are still alive, I am the eldest of 4 children, I have two of my own children who wish they could see their grandparents, and count at least one UK based couple as some of my best friends. But I still believe Melbourne is the right place for us to live.
Nov 4th 2011, 4:20 am
#74
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,717
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
When we lived in the UK, our nearest town was Walsall (no culture) and the nearest city was Birmingham (lowbrow culture). For anything decent we had to visit London or Edinburgh (the Fringe was good fun; wanted to see the Military Tattoo but never got around to it).
Consequently I spent a lot of time listening to Radio 4. In fact, I found it was the only channel worth listening to.
Consequently I spent a lot of time listening to Radio 4. In fact, I found it was the only channel worth listening to.
Nov 4th 2011, 4:34 am
#75
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 1,717
Re: This article should be compulsory reading for anyone planning to emigrate
Your correct on this one Badge.... Everytime I have a moment of financially induced weakness, I'll remember where I live and also my mind changing time in Chester... Especially as trips to places like Chester were driving my original thoughts re possible retirement to the UK.
Cant easily buy what we have here in Melbourne.
Cant easily buy what we have here in Melbourne.