lapin_windstar

Ooh, I know the answer to this one - it's Canada, isn't it?

Tramps_mate

There has been plenty in the news recently about the minimum wage for the 457 visa being increased to $57,000 (I think) and several court cases involving companies that had under paid workers on the visa..

lapin_windstar

And more seriously: the protests are not themselves driven by racial concerns or racist policies. The underlying issue is a classic conflict between labour and capital, which shouldn't be a surprise in the place to which the Tolpuddle Martyrs were deported: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolpuddle_Martyrs

Labour (workers, I mean, not Labor) has had the upper hand in the last few years and in WA in particular: there is a huge demand for semiskilled and skilled labour on these massive industrial/extractive projects, and unions have been able to negotiate some stunning awards and allowances. Capitalists, on the other hand, are keen to pay as cheap a price for inputs (including wages) as possible. Again - nothing unusual there.

Rinehart (who does not value her public image - she's aggressive by nature) has obtained some pretty major concessions. Most of the new workers will not be union members and even if a few of them do join, they won't be very loyal.

This conflict is not just about the short term, though. It's about the survival of union power in Australia:

- If an arrival of 457ers en masse splits the workforce between union and nonunion, the unions are finished - you need solidarity otherwise you have nothing to negotiate with, and once it goes, you don't get it back. The 457ers don't even have to hang around very long for that to happen (but even then, a large number of them will stay one way or another).

- Labor's federal wipeout is imminent. Once that happens, labour laws are back up for grabs. That goes double for WA, which isn't even in the Fair Work system.

- thanks to Craig Thomson's apparent patronising of prostitutes and improper use of union credit cards, as well as Labor faction leaders' incredible ability to spend more time stabbing each other in the back than anything else, unions are about to be placed in a very harsh light indeed. Increased transparency and regulation are imvho likely - so they're about to spend the next four years being waterboarded.

The Labour movement can't afford a unionbusting bloc of 457ers right now - which of course is why the employers are so in favour.

To some extent the unions themselves are to blame for this - they have become so complacent, improper and arrogant that their behaviour is at least 30 years out of date, and they have done very little to reach out and build solidarity with immigrant workers. In Sydney, for example, the construction workers' unions have allowed themselves to retreat to their knuckledragging Southern Cross-tattooed instincts when it comes to recruiting immigrant workers - and that has played right into employers' hands when it comes to playing off unionised labour and non-unionised labour.

Moreover, Australian workers generally don't want to move west. An influx of east coast unionised workers is not going to happen to fill these WA jobs - hence the tight market in WA and the slack market for the same types of job in the East Coast, and the incredibly expensive FIFO arrangements.

Having said all that, if the 457ers become perceived as generally less white than they are now, the racial element to this would become far more pronounced, in a very nasty way.

Tramps_mate

You've not stated any facts..

verystormy

Well, i often see poorly informed posts on here. But never as many and from all sides as i have on this one.

So, from some one currently about to start shift at one of the biggest mines in Oz and having worked at a fair few others, here is how i see it.

1. The Roy Hill project will require 457 holders. The vast majority of which will be specialist roles for people needed to do specialist jobs in areas such as manufacturing the plant. This isnt new. I come across these guys a fair bit. They almost never will want to stay in Oz as they move around the world doing the same job. The other big area is things such as mining engineers, mine planners.

2. I have never heard of or come across 457 holders on less money than an Australian. Usually the opposite.

3. I have never known a company go for a 457 if they could get locals. It would be ideocy as why pay for the costs of the visa and often relocation costs if you can get a local.

4. The reason people cant get into mining as truckies and things is because they are joining the back of a long que. There is zero shortage of such staff. We get hundreds of applicants for every position. There is a clue in the term "skills shortage"

bcworld

Take home pay perhaps. I think we all know however that many employers have used LAFHA as a means to reduce the cost to themselves of offering that final number...i.e. to less than it might cost to employ a 'local' person.

Some people are being a bit myopic I think when they consider who 457 visas are held by:

More people come on a 457 to work in health care than mining. ICT beats mining too...and working in that sector I really don't see a skill shortage there.

Thousands of people have been granted a 457 to work in retail services, food & accommodation, real estate services etc....

eddie007

So thats why we retail services, food and accommodation and NURSES get paid peanuts..... Too many visas available...

I do fall into the Train your own workforce and invest in skill producing eduation camp... Seeing how expensive training is and how difficult it can be to "break into" mining

lapin_windstar

I don't think anyone can disagree with this as a general statement but is it really true that there is a large number of prospective trainees ready for such a programme, even if it were ready? (And that's ignoring the fact that few Australian workers are willing to move to WA or remote areas, and that any programme would have a multiyear delay while the plants need to be built now).

vadu

That's exactly my case. The company said they'll look for a local first. A couple weeks ago offered me a job because couldn't find a local to fill that position.

mrsgreenstar76

On the other hand, there is no excuse for some words being used at all. I agree with free speech, but when signing up to BE, there are site rules. We all had to agree to them. You can't cry "free speech" if you (using 'you' in a general sense, not meaning you specifically) knowingly use words that would contravene that & get told about it.

mpp

Do you know this for a fact or are you just assuming.Hope you know if employers bring anyone on a 457 visa they need to pay them minimum salary for 57000 p.a. and no LAFHA rules have changes starting July 2012.We came on a 457 in Nov 2010. Hubby is a scientist and so did few other scientist working his lab who are from france, India and US came on a 457 visa. One thing I do know the employer has to fill in lot a paper work to get the sponsorship approved from immigration and this paper work includes details like exact nature of the work the employee will be doing ( i know this because my husband had to submit details on his proposed research project and other details)hours of work, was the job advertised in local job market and such other details, so not sure how retail and real estate agencies will be incorporating these details in their paperwork. Also the employer needs to pay visa fees and for the health insurance of the employee. All this will be very expensive, very time consuming and involving lot of paper work for retail and Real estate employers. If employers are bringing employees from overseas under some different skill requirements and then making them do some other work or under paying them then that is fraud. But i do not think retail, hotel and RE will go through so much trouble.

bcworld

Yes.

paddyo

IIRC wasn't there different bands for different occupations? Also, I think some employers included the LAFHA, erroneously as it happens because its based on your TAXABLE salary.

Pollyana

Keep the thread on track now please

desert-rat

I apologise if my quoted words caused any offence. I was merely stating the view held by Australian workers that their country is about to be overrun with 457 visa workers from Asia and the Sub-Continent.I quoted the words from a post made on another forum which advertised the anti 457 visa protests.
I wouldnt describe myself as racist as am married to an Asian, have a mixed race child and have spent many years living and working in Asia.