joannab

Hi,

I would be very grateful if anyone could give me any advice on practising as a solicitor in Australia.

I am about to graduate from my law degree in England and am hoping to continue my studies in NSW to become a solicitor there. This would involve getting the academic requirements plus the PLT.

Has anyone done this?

I would be very grateful of any advice.

Many Thanks

LCT

Hi Joanna,

I am a solicitor and recently moved to Sydney from the UK. I did my LPC and a training contract in the UK and was 3 years qualified when I left.

To convert my law degree I had to do a module in Australian Constitutional Law and then to convert my LPC I had to do modules in Solicitors Accounts and Ethics. I think the extent of the exemptions you can get on the practical legal training side of things (LPC equivalent) depends on the level of your experience over there. Accounts and Ethics are the minimum requirement.

Are you planning to qualify over there before moving?

I got here early December having completed all the requalification requirements in the UK and to be honest, I am finding it very difficult to get work here. I get the impression there is no shortage of lawyers here and most of the firms and agents I have approached have suggested that they would prefer someone with local experience.

I expect things would be a lot easier if you were able to do full practical legal training over here as that involves spending about half a year studying and half a year doing practical experience with a firm.

Anyway, take a look at the Legal Profession Admission Board website if you haven't already:

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlin...b_admissionreq

One other thing ... are you able to get a visa? I got mine as my other half is an Aussie. I think I would have had great difficulty getting one through the points system.

Well, good luck anyway!

joannab

Hi there,

Thanks for replying so quickly.

I was planning on doing the PLT in Sydney, instead of the UK as it is cheaper and I think the work experience side to it is a much better idea.
Hopefully I would be able to secure a job with the people I do the work experience with?

I do not have enough points to apply for migration yet as I am still studying my law degree. I was thinking of coming over on a student visa to complete the PLT, however I do not know where I stand after that.

Every time I ask the law society about being admitted they seem to get confused with what I am asking! Where I am stuck is that law firms only take on graduates if they are permanent residents and I do not know whether I will be able to get permanent residence after completing the PLT?

Can I ask what type of law you practice in?
Was constitutional law the only module you had to study? Where did you do it?
I read somewhere that you have to study the torrens land system?

I have seen a course at the University of Technology Sydney which is a diploma in Australian Law. This is supposed to be a course to give you all the academic requirements for admission if you have a law degree outside of Australia. However, it is $20,000 and now you have told me you only studied constitutional law I could be wasting my money!

I hope I have not asked you too many questions!

Jo

Famous 5

Hi Jo

If you check out the detail on the LPAB website on the link given above you will see that the requirements vary depending on whether you are a qualified solicitor or not.

If you are qualified and have practised in the UK for less than 5 years, you will usually only be required to study Australian Constitutional Law, Accounts & Ethics.

For someone who has not been admitted as a solicitor and has not practised in the UK, the requirements will be different. The LPAB require applicants to have a law degree (or CPE) and LPC in order to satisfy the academic requirements, otherwise the applicant would need to study more than Australian Constitutional Law.

With regards to the practical training requirements, these would usually be satisifed by the training contract and any experience as a qualified lawyer.

Your best bet may be to get an assessment of your academics done by the LPAB and once you have that you can plan how you fill in any gaps and meet the practical training requirements.

All the best.

markgooden

Hi Famous 5

Thank you for that information.

I am not qualified (I will only have completed an UK law degree) so I think I may well need to do the diploma in Australian law.

Is there such thing as a training contract in Australia? I was under the impression from the Law Society that once you have completed the academic requirements and then the PLT and ethics course then you are qualified. Is this right?

My only conern is that once I complete the PLT I may not be able to get another visa to stay on and practice unless I am a fully qualified solicitor.

Many Thanks

joannab

Sorry the above post from Mark Gooden is me, I forgot to change the username on my boyfriends computer!

Many Thanks

Jo

Famous 5

Hi Jo

I think you are right - if you have a law degree or postgraduate diploma from an approved provider and the PLT from an approved provider, you will satisfy the LPAB's requirements. This will be detailed on the LPAB's website:

http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlin...b_admissionreq

but I have to admit that as I'm qualified in the UK I haven't really looked into it from that angle.

If you have an assessment of your law degree done by the LPAB, you could then just study the modules you need to rather than studying the whole diploma (unless you really want to!). On that point, the LPAB runs its own diploma through the University of Sydney Law Extension Committee and I believe the fees are cheaper than some of the uni fees.

As to the whole visa issue once you are qualified, I'm sure I've seen a number of threads about this, but I'm not in a position to comment as I came here as a result of my OH's skills - it was much easier than trying to make an application based on my profession!

LCT

I think that in order to get through the points system you have to be already qualified and admitted to work here which makes things extremely difficult (and expensive!). Also, lawyers are not particularly in demand.

You could try phoning the LPAB. Occasionally you can manage to speak to someone helpful (!?). Its only about $60 to apply for academic exemptions (law degree equivalent).

I did my course in Australian Constitutional Law with the University of New England at Armidale. I studied by myself and sat the exam in London. It cost about $1,600.

Famous 5, have you managed to find work and if so how long did it take and how does it compare re salary, prospects, specialism etc to what you were doing in the UK?

caras

Hi,

we are going to oz in june..( if our visa comes in time) on a 136 visa as my hubby is a welder (first calss). However i too have just finished my law degree here and was wondering about training contracts do they actually do them in oz?

I just seem concerned that when you ask anyone ie uni's, legal boards, law societies ( and believe you may i have been in touch with all of them all over the country) no one seems to have any definate answers they just seem to say you have to have send your work experience of which i have none becasuse i have only got my degree! no one seemed to actually know how i will go about getting my degree converted until i got in touch with the WA legal practice board who siad i had to send my degree and experience to them and they will decide if and how i will have to convert my degree. i know we have to complete the equivelant to the LPC but still none the wiser as to whether we can get a training contract!!!


surely there must be someone who has been and done this already? if not i will keep you all posted as to how i get on when i get there and send them my stuff!!


good luck all

caroline

LCT

Hi Caroline,

I know exactly how frustrating it is trying to get any useful information from people!

I'm not 100% sure about WA but in NSW there is no training contract as such. After law degree people must do a Practical Legal Training course which is essentially half a year at Uni and the rest of the year on the job with a firm. After that you are qualified (ie 2 years earlier than in the UK).

Hope that helps. The best of luck anyway.

caras

thanks lct,

the seems lots easier than uk. hopefully the conversion of the degree will only be a module on constitutional law and then i can get on with plc. do you have any idea what kind of pay a starting solicitor is on? any help is gratefully recieved.

once again thanks

caroline

LCT

It depends a lot on the type and size of firm I think.

Taylor Root recently sent me a salary survey which you can get from their Australian website. It suggests that salaries of 1 year qualified people with mid tier firms in Sydney and Melbourne are in the region of $52k - $70k. For top tier firms it suggests $58k - $75k. I'm afraid it doesn't mention any other cities though.

Hope that helps.

roman_candle

Hi

I'm a solicitor at a big firm in Melbourne, I'm not from the UK but have done it the other way around (i.e. gone to the UK for a year from here) so I have some idea of the differences! We have a couple of UK qualified solicitors at work, and they all definately had to do a module on constitutional law. I think they may have also had to do a property module, as well. I think they are able to practice under supervision before they do so, though, so long as they don't describe themselves as a "solicitor."

The qualification system varies from state to state - in Victoria we do articles of clerkship, which is similar to the training contract system in the UK, except that it's only for a year. In NSW they do the PLT course, as discussed above.

Pay really depends on the firm. I was on 67k as a 1 year qualified solicitor and I'm 2 years qualified now and I'm on 82k. I believe our articled clerks (i.e. straight out of university) start on about 50k and get a small rise halfway through the year. It does depend on the firm, though,the smaller firms definately pay less. That Taylor Root survey doesn't sound too far wrong.

My understanding is that there's a pretty big shortage of solicitors at the moment - my firm has been actively recruiting from the UK, actually - but I think that's more at the 2-4 year qualified level. It's pretty competitive to get graduate entry jobs. The trouble you may have is that most of the corporate firms recruit from within the group of students who do a vacation placement with them, and it might be difficult to get in at the graduate level without having done that.

Anyway. Good luck with it all, feel free to ask if I can answer anymore questions!

YoSemite

we're being told the same from our law school as well. and that it is only in extremely rare cases that you'll get a graduate placement with a firm WITHOUT doing a internship with them. the JD students in my classes have already started to apply for interships and placements with the firms that they think they want to work for when they graduate. I know peopleat UQ in brisbane are currently doing the same.

roman_candle

Yep, I think that's right. It was always kind of that way, but it's got worse in the past few years as the system now is that the big firms will make offers directly to people in their internship program, so most of the places get taken that way. There ARE firms that will recruit you without doing a clerkship, but they tend to be very small ones and even they generally recruit a year in advance. I guess my advice is that it'd be v. easy to get into a firm here if you had even one year's experience in the UK, but pretty hard to get in at graduate level.