leannea

I'm new and need advice please

Hi guys, I have had a read of the posts on the forum and I am after some advice on a potential legal prob? I am divorced from my first husband, who left when our daughter was 11 months old 1995 - she is now 10 yrs old. Anyway to cut a long story short, I have remarried in 2002 and we all want to try Oz as a new life style. At the mo I have a standard court order saying that I am not allowed to take my daughter out of the country for more than 28 days without the father's permission. What are my chances of being granted permission by the courts to move? Has anyone had a similar experiece? One thing is for sure, I don't think the ex would give me permission, so I am assuming that a judge/court would have to decided what it best for all.

arnie2oz

It would be so much easier for you if you could get your ex-partner's formal agreement.

We were worried about getting it but (and everyone's situation is different I know) he wasn't paying maintenance - his choice - and his daughter living with us was 15, so closer to being an adult than yours.

I think it would be worth asking, on the basis that she would have a better future.

This has been raised before quite recently so a search might give you a lot more info. Meanwhile I've sent you a PM.

Good luck

Siren & Brian

Hi leannea!

I was in a similar situation. Ex-husband didn't want much to do with the kids until I sought to leave the country. All of a sudden, he decided he wanted full custody.

As there was absolutely no way he would agree, my only alternative was to apply to the court for a court order giving me permission to move to Australia with my kids.

Basically, because I already had full custody (he had fortnightly visitation) and had been a stay-at-home mum all through my childrens formative years (status quo), it was left to my ex to give cogent reason as to WHY there should be a change in custody. I myself prepared to prove why the children would benefit from the move.

In the end, the judge decided that changing custody would be more of an upheaval for the kids than a move around the world.

If there is ANY way you can get his permisson, go that route!! If not, here are some little bits of advice;

1) DO YOUR RESEARCH!!
Nothing looks worse then not being prepared for the judges questions. I.e. Where will they go to school? How will this move benefit them? Do you have a support system there? Do you have means to get back home should it not work out? Can they continue the extra-curricular activities they do now, in Oz? What about visitation? Can you afford it? Will you share costs? What are you willing to do to make seperation easier?

2) BEND OVER BACKWARDS
Be the bigger person. Do your best to make things easy... visitation? Phone calls? (research the costs) Internet? In the long run, if you bend over backwards for him, it just shows your dedication to the kids benefit and that you're willing to put aside your feelings for your ex, for the greater good of the kids.

3) KNOW THE RULES!
I found out AFTER a year long court battle and a costly and timely visa application that EXTREMELY specific wording is required by DIMIA in order for them to issue you a visa. (You can PM me for more details on that if you want) I wound up going BACK to court to get the original judgement ammended to suit DIMIA causing more delay for my visa.

4) BREATH
Try not to panic, judges aren't stupid and they make decisions in the best interest of your child(ren). If you, as thier mum, feel this move is good for them, chances are your instincts are right and that will come across.

*Climbs off of podium* Ahem... sorry for the long-windedness of that

Siren

P.S. Moral support is always a post away

ginni

Completely agree with Siren.

Having just been through TWO court cases (one lasting a year) know the importance of being FULLY informed about education, health etc etc.

We both got our permission yesterday, the court order even arrived this morning, but know I am panicked when I ready your post Siren saying needed specific wording!!!!!!!!

I've already been back to court to change from Australia to NZ!!!!

:scared: :scared:

leannea

Thanks guys that is brilliant information, he has beaten me in courts before as I wasn't prepared - I won't be making the same mistake twice.

trainee_pilot

speaking as a father who is hoping to take his 11yr old (12 /13 by the time we expect to go) daughter when we emigrate, I feel I will lose out in the courts because fathers are not favoured by them. The replies to this thread more or less confirm that attitude as it is irespective of how much the father wants to spend with their kids, the woman is always deemed to be the one who makes 'the best decision' when the kids interests are up for debate.

Neither my ex-wife or I have custody over our daughter, she spends the same amount of time with me as what she does with her mum, ie. I pick her up from school on a thursday and take her back to school on a monday morning. Even tho this is the case I am classed as an absent parent as I dont receive child benefit (wont go into the battle I had with the CSA over that one!)

All I can hope for is that the ex sees that a life in australia for our daughter would be in her best interests and not be selfish because she will miss her.

Now I know some will say I am being selfish by taking her with us BUT I am giving my daughter the choice, come with us or stay behind, it's entirely her choice and if she does choose to stay then I will support her in that decision, it will make no difference to us going.

So there's my soapbox speech done, please don't think all fathers are out to spite their exes, its not always the case.
TP

Siren & Brian

The very fact that you are giving your daughter a choice in the matter (she is certainly old enough to decide) shows that you are very much concerned with her happiness. I hope you're ex sees that as well should she want to go with you.

My post is not meant to bash men or imply they shouldn't have custody. My hubby here in Oz has full custody of his two children and rightly so. Mum's just not fit for it.

It's just a sad fact that more often than not, Dad's b*gger off and Mum's get left holding the bag. Then, when they attempt to move on, the kids are used as leverage.

Judges look at status quo with great importance and obviously you have a history of spending as much time with your daughter as your ex-wife. I should think this will have great impact. Also, at her age, what she wants will have an enormous impact on the outcome.

Don't lose hope! Dad's don't always get the sh*te end of the stick.

Best of luck to you and your daughter!

Siren

RichS

I'm left with a slight feeling that separating your offspring from one of their parents by a distance of half the globe might be viewed as being pretty selfish, both on the child and the parent who isn't going.

I'm not sure either how in most cases you could say that this would be a change for the better. australia isn't per se 'better' than the UK, so you'd have to go a fair way to justify that.

walla

Hi Leannea

You need to go and see a good family lawyer. To be honest, if ex has contact and he would be unwilling to allow you to take your daughter to Oz you have a long and expensive time ahead if you go through the courts. If ex does have contact now I think the courts would look unfavourably on your request, that's my guess, I am not a lawyer, but I know how family courts work.

It may be worth engaging the subject with ex and see if you can come to a private agreement where you can organise contact for him which will be another huge expense with flights etc.

Tricky, tricky, seek legal advice before doing anything

Walla

Timber Floor Au

CRACKING HONEST AND INFORMATIVE POST WELL DONE !!!!

Siren & Brian

Thanks Timber!! Nothing like experience and honesty


Depends on your perspective.. are you the parent wanting to move on with your life, has opportunities, job offers, a spouse, the chance to give your kid(s) a better life etc...
Or are you the parent who doesn't want anything to change despite these things? Or feel that the other parent is somehow doing it to... what, live a crappier life farther away for the sake of it? Spiteful people often think that others are just like them, just as liars trust no one.

Most people do not move a great distance because it's worse or just because they FEEL like it. There is usually a damn good reason why they feel it would be a good move. And most of us agonize over that decision if not for the sake of our ex's, then for the sake of our children. It's NOT easy and to have people, like you, paint us all with the word "selfish" (and there are a lot of you) makes these decisions all the harder. There is enough guilt involved without someone who does not know the circumstances shovelling on some more.

If more people tried harder to understand and come to compromises that suit everyone, well, there would be a lot less court cases about it.


Depends on who your justifying it to and why.
Our lives improved dramatically with the move, so let's work that out...
Better life.. happier mum... happier dad...happier kids... peace of mind... I'd say that justifies it for me!

If my ex even once offered to come to the table and negotiate, I would've jumped on it. Still would. We've offered visitation, here and there, several times a year and he refuses. If he can't have them around the corner... he doesn't want them at all.
My children are lucky that they have a stepfather who loves them like his own and hopefully, fills the void that their father leaves... by his own choice. Oh wait... that's the reason I moved here....
Clever woman I am.

Siren

arnie2oz

Excellent posts Siren.

As I've said before - everyone's situation is different, and those people who generalise and criticise without knowledge should keep their opinions off this site.

TP, siren, ginni & leanna, and everyone who has a spouse who doesn't put the child/children first, or uses them as a lever - you have my heartfelt sympathy and cyber-support.

RichS

quote "As I've said before - everyone's situation is different, and those people who generalise and criticise without knowledge should keep their opinions off this site."

1. You have absolutely 0 idea of my qualification to talk on this matter so why make such a n outrageous presumption

2. Taking your lines literally I fully expect you to be posting the above quote on EVERY thread where someone from the UK makes a comment about what life/work/living is like in Aus when they haven't been there. I also expect you to repeat those lines on EVERY thread where someone from the UK jumps up and down in their rose tinters when someone who lives/has lived here makes a less than effusive comment about AUS.

Your comments are trite. If you wish to stifle constructive debate and comment then I suggest you might try the North Korean Expat site.

If you read my comments accurately you will see I suggested certain emotive actions and events that might be construed. I then get replies which veer from the general to the specific quite wildly. It's not really on to talk genrally about the subject when it suits, then throw in your own very specific case, then accuse me of generalising - not a coherent argument.

RichS

quote "As I've said before - everyone's situation is different, and those people who generalise and criticise without knowledge should keep their opinions off this site."

1. You have absolutely 0 idea of my qualification to talk on this matter so why make such a n outrageous presumption

2. Taking your lines literally I fully expect you to be posting the above quote on EVERY thread where someone from the UK makes a comment about what life/work/living is like in Aus when they haven't been there. I also expect you to repeat those lines on EVERY thread where someone from the UK jumps up and down in their rose tinters when someone who lives/has lived here makes a less than effusive comment about AUS.

Your comments are trite. If you wish to stifle constructive debate and comment then I suggest you might try the North Korean Expat site.

If you read my comments accurately you will see I suggested certain emotive actions and events that might be construed. I then get replies which veer from the general to the specific quite wildly. It's not really on to talk genrally about the subject when it suits, then throw in your own very specific case, then accuse me of generalising - not a coherent argument.

brisnick

it amazes me that people automatically think living in oz would provide a better future for their kids. i'm sure for some it does, and some it doesn't.

and if you think bringing up kids in oz is safer, maybe you should read this:

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_...55E421,00.html