With All Due Respect...

Hi all,

First post - just joined.

I'm just after any advice, hopefully from people who have been in the similar situations as what I'm considering doing.

I'm already an Australian Citizen - emigrated from England in 2005 - but I've been overseas in a few places since 2010. Things have all gone, how shall I put this... t*ts up, both professionally and personally over the past few years. I've now had enough and am planning to return to Oz in the near future.

I previously worked in Oz in Coal Seam Gas, working out of and living in Brisbane. Seems that market is well overpriced internationally now and so the opportunities at the level that I was at are few and far between. I had hoped to do the same and get a FIFO position so I could live close to Noosa but it seems unlikely with how things currently are.

So...I'm considering a change in direction. Maybe a final career change, as I've hit my mid thirties now. I've always been employed in technical jobs and I am IT literate (way?) above and beyond the average home user. I have considered making the jump into IT previously on a couple of occasions, and would have, if only circumstances hadn't changed out of my control. This time I am considering taking some certification before returning to Oz - namely MCSE (likely residential through Koenig in India), possibly A+, and I may take PRINCE2 F&P and ITIL Foundation certification too. For all intents and purposes though I will have no "real World" experience with any of this.

Has anyone here been a "paper cert" in Oz, either when arriving or after having studied and changed careers whilst there? If so, how did you find gaining employment, where, and on roughly what starting salary/hourly rate?

I don't expect it to be easy to get a start as a paper cert but I consider this to possibly lead to a relatively well paid position, 9 to 5, with city centre living in Melbourne or Sydney. Not necessarily what I'm crying out for now but I would probably appreciate this kind of routine over shift work in remote areas the more the years creep up on me (and the more I want to settle down).

Any experiences, suggestions, or comments are much appreciated!

Cheers.

Alfresco

MCSE is changing again as per Microsoft.

I think you'll find it really hard to find work without proven experience no matter what career path you choose unfortunately. But you never know.

Good luck!

IvanM

Go into IT only if you truly like it. The likelihood is that an MCSE will get you a helpdesk job that will get offshored.

With All Due Respect...

Aye, I agree that it's difficult to find any job without experience. Was just hoping for the best! It's not the be all and end all of my work experience, should I even choose to undertake the MCSE, it was just a (highly considered) thought to an alternative career path.

I may well do these courses regardless. IT's always interested me and any further option is a good one...I can always tailor my CV.

My only concern is using up whatever slush fund I'll have to move. The more I spend on courses the less I have for living expenditure when I get back to Oz. It's a trade off between a possible new career or playing the field as I am with a few months more living costs in my back pocket....

With All Due Respect...

BTW, thanks for the good luck! Gonna need it, whatever I end up doing when I return!

And as for really liking IT? Well, I'm a self admitted geek, but that's as far as it goes. My interest in technology is not the same as finding enjoyment or personal fulfilment from being a DBA or even a technical architect. IT is far from being my ideal vocation, but even presuming I know whatever that is, that would never pay the bills.

Just don't want to be chasing the resources money doing shifts in years to come when I'd rather be spending time with my family to be (or my nights out doing cultural stuff in Melbourne if I end up being a bitter bachelor! ;-)).

Alfresco

I work in I.T. as an mcse etc... and it looks like it is all moving to the Cloud soon and even my days may be numbered...sooner than I think, sadly.

It's a global thing and not limited to Australia.

With All Due Respect...

It's definitely heading that way! Hope you get a good few years out of it yet though!

The thought of gaining certification was really so I could work in the major cities. If it worked out well as a career path long term then great, but if not I was hoping to be able to have some flexibility in working hours in the major cities while I finally get my arse in gear and undertake a degree. If I find work in the resources exploration sector again I'll never have a schedule that will allow me to undertake a degree as I'll be unable to attend Uni for practicals/lab work/lectures on a regular basis.

The issues are that IT may or may not work out for me, short or long term. If it didn't, to follow more of my interests at degree level I'd like to do a BSc in Geology or Geoscience - but these are the areas that get cut from the budget of resources companies during any downturn (like now). So even if I tread that path I could well be setting myself up for a very tough job market in future anyway (and one that will likely not sit too well with a regular kind of family life in future due to the shifts and remote locations).

Back to scouring Seek for me and looking for alternatives then!

IvanM

Both my clients are moving to the cloud and utility based computing.

Buzzy--Bee

Rick - don't give up your dream.

If you want to work in IT, a good qualification will help you get a shit-level job in which you can shine and move quickly up the ladder to where you really belong, by which time everyone will have forgotten about what qualification you started with.

I did this in the UK directly after Y2K, when loads of ex-Y2Kers were out of work and the job market was shit. I was 31 years old, given up a career in print sales, I had an MCP in NT4, I did some volunteer IT work at a charity to get some real world experience to put on my CV. My first paid job was backing up and checking data in an IT department, $crap per hour, didn't care, as while I was there I learned stuff from the more senior guys and was soon entrusted with solving some of the simpler problems myself, so I had some more experience to put on my CV. I was soon able to move on to a better job, and another one, and within 4 years was on management level as I had the management experience from my previous sales career, coupled with my 4 years of IT support.

So it can be done, and while things may well be different now than they were in 2000 (and not necessarily worse), for the foreseeable future the western world is going to need people who work in IT at all levels.

Go for it.

BB

With All Due Respect...

Thank you, BB!

I'm sure I could make this work one way or another. The uncertainty is the killer, but I'll never know unless I try. I got the taste for being a contractor not too long ago with a few months in Lyon. Loved that place. I'll admit that I was out of my depth with that position, but it really made me want to focus on IT as opposed to resource sector work. My mind vacillates though!

I was just reading your "5000 posts" thread that's in Articles, along with your reccies of Brissy and Melbourne... Great post/thread, it really was, and it's made my feet so itchy to get over to Melbourne! Melbourne always has been my favourite major Aussie city by far - my life in Brisbane was purely due to work (although I absolutely love Queensland on the whole).

Touch wood, I'll be in Melbourne within a few months. I'd be there tomorrow if I could be! I'm already scouring realestate.com in earnest to see what the rental market's like these days. It's time to start sorting out my training and certification and enjoying whatever semblance of a Spring and Summer old Blighty seems fit to bestow me with this year before I jump on the big freedom bird to Oz..

Really can't wait to get back to Stralyer!

tictac

Rick

I agree with what BB has said. Though the world is somewhat different to how it was 10 years or so ago, if you're passionate enough and determined enough you *will* achieve your dream.

My story:

Gave up accountancy career in 2000 to move into "IT". Didnt really know what IT was but was excited about this new thing called the internet.

Got customer service job with insurance company to develop helpdesk skills

Got helpdesk job with mobile phone company

Got desktop support job with large IT firm

Moved into project management/control area with large IT firm

Project-managed BS15000 assessments for large IT firm. Heard about ITIL

Obtained ITIL foundation cert

Moved into service management consultancy with large IT firm

Developed & implemented SM processes within world's largest civil change management programme

Moved to Oz. Helped large IT firm achieve ISO 20000 certification

Obtained 3 x ITIL v3 capability modules (ITIL Expert - old "Red Badge")

Moved into public sector

Led ITIL implementation programmes for large QLD Govt agencies

Currently working as SDM

My advice: don't overlook the importance of ITIL especially if you want to move into managerial roles. The cost of training may currently be prohibitive but familiarise yourself (at least) with the principles of the 4 "core" processes (Incident, Change, Config, Problem) and the service lifecycle.

In these economically challenging times, CIO's are seeking to maximise their investment in IT & reduce TCO. Being able to understand & express how effective service management (processes) can facilitate this will be of interest to potential employers.

Give it your best shot & good luck!

IvanM

Agh an SDM

The bane of my life.

With All Due Respect...

Thanks, tictac.

Just sorting out whether to undertake various certification with Firebrand in the UK or with Koenig in India. I know where I'd rather do it (as I can be assured of facilities and instruction standards) - but at under half the price, including a trip to Goa or Delhi (albeit a studying trip), it's hard to look past Koenig.

I don't suppose anyone on here has had any experience of using any offshore training providers? Koenig in particular? Good or bad, I'd like to know!

Also, I know which path in IT I would prefer to tread, but that may not be entirely up to me! Depending upon what employment I can find as a newly cert'd entry level IT guy, and with whom, will obviously end up making a huge difference to my role and experience in coming years. As non vendor specific courses I figured I'd do CompTIA A+, Network+ and Security+. I'd rather leave the Cisco stuff alone, if I can, for now at least. Same with Linux. As for MS, well... Ideally I'd like to tread the Information Security path and so I guess with the current crop of MCSE certification that would mean studying towards MCSE SI? It's all become rather role specific since the old 2003 MCSE, or even the MCITP, and as a newbie to the industry I question whether it's even worthwhile gaining broad certification as MCSA Win 7, MCSA Win 8, or working towards MCSE 2003 which will soon be a legacy cert, or an MCITP which is already mothballed. As I haven't been working towards any MS certification previously then maybe I'm just best off sticking with the current MCSA/MCSE paths, regardless of the revalidation requirements and despite many SME's or larger companies continuing to use older MS products. Thoughts?

I know I'm somewhat jumping the gun and the cert's are arguably worthless without experience, but I intend to undertake and pass whatever I can so I can get my foot in the door somewhere. If I don't make a concerted effort to get into IT now then I likely never will. With me intending upon a fresh start and a return to Australia in the near future then now is as good a time as any. What I want is bang for my buck though - as much as can be found - without pigeon holing myself before I've even begun door knocking (but also without seemingly having a lack of focus by hedging my bets over too wide an area with various certification).

If anyone in IT here has any ideas of which certs they'd take and why, if they were starting out from scratch in this day and age, then I'd be most interested in their views. Please bear in mind what I've said above though and don't advise me to try and do CCIE or something! I'm sure with very little experience that I'll find an MCSA hard enough to pass, let alone an MCSE (as I do NOT want to just do some kind of brain dump bootcamp), so relatively sensible answers only please!

Cheers all.

With All Due Respect...

Hmmmn. Note to self - don't post on forums after reaching the bottom of a bottle...

In case that last post gave anyone the wrong impression, I fully realise that an MCSA or an MCSE is not an entry level cert. To have any chance of attaining it without having a couple of years experience at least basically means it's been attained by nothing but targeted learning, cramming, and in the worst case scenario, brain dumps. Unfortunately it seems to me that many hiring managers don't appreciate quite what some certs are supposed to be, and I often see entry level positions "requiring" MCSE's or the like.

If I do take a vendor specific course from a training provider then I'll be treating it as exposure to products. Any exam passes would be a bonus. Without applied, practical experience then the cert's worthless anyway, except maybe as recruiter bait. With this in mind, and considering I'll likely take the 3 aforementioned CompTIA courses, the remainder of my previous post is pretty much moot. It's all about the experience and actual ability to fulfil the role you find yourself in, not the certs. I do realise this!

I'm still intrigued on where people would try and lead their career paths these days though, and why, if they were starting out again in IT? Just out of interest sakes. So if anyone cares to share their thoughts it'd be appreciated.

Ta.

isgraham

Think long and hard about going into IT in Australia. Almost all of my mates have or are soon to be loosing their jobs yet I don't hear of too much of that going on where I am currently. Salaries while pitiful when compared to cost of living are extremely high by international standards hence all of the outsourcing.