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Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Originally Posted by Tish11
(Post 4631574)
I suspect most black south africans will disagree with you on this aspect.
Does the ANC deserve a vote today...maybe Not but depriving a generation of schooling was never an ANC policy. Have you heard of Bantu education? For those who dont know...My understanding!!! an inferior education system consciously designed by the SA government to limit skills development amongst races and black people unfortunately were at the hard end of the stick..(representing the majority of the population)..This I think, thats what rendering the country ungovernable was all about. You mention that the ANC could have done things differently...Like??? which they had not tried before. The ANC was formed in 1912 by the way and they have fought for their liberation in various ways before they even got to the point of making the country ungovernable. Historically as well, SA was the only country with institutionalized racism at that time..(well, its the only one I know of). I have been privileged enough to be able to get in contact with young SA kids(both black and white) who attended the now mixed schools with a new curriculum and I think that an SA matriculant is in no way worse off than a british A level student or even an Aussie child at the same level...(based on experience).. I work with a young black SA girl, she just completed her matric..(at the now normal mixed public schools).. and she is very competent. Thats not just my perception, everyone in my office seems to share the same view. By the way, she is very proud to be black.."black consciousness" or whatever you called it If SA had treated everyone with the same level of respect...who knows, maybe we wouldnt be having such problems today. At the back of all the evil that went on in SA and continues to do so...there is some good in that country... Your line of argument is common. Any critic of the ANC is therefore a supporter of the worst excesses of apartheid. Any critic of Africa is therefore a racist. One hears this kind of thing again and again. For the rest, I don't need to comment in detail. What people in your office think is neither here nor there, and to suggest that my criticisms of what the ANC is doing to South African education mean that somehow I support or advocate Bantu education is just nonsense. I was against institutionalised racism then, and I am against it today. And what is the policy of so called Black Economic Empowerment if not another form of insitutionalised racism? One which is as deeply corrupting in its own way as was apartheid. You might chose to reflect on why South African university qualifications are ceasing to be accepted and recognised any longer in the West before you say that education is not being debased in SA. You obviously don't know what the black consciousness thing is all about. It's a whole analysis of the world, and a deeply flawed one at that, which merely compounds the problems in places like Africa. It is a long way from merely being "proud to be black" - whatever that means. Proud to be good, or learned, or virtuous, yes. Proud to be black? Should I be proud to be white? Do me a favour. As for your platitude that there is good to be found in SA, that is yet another straw-man argument. There was good to be found in Nazi Germany. So what? Pablo |
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Originally Posted by Tish11
(Post 4630841)
My impression or rather understanding of what they are trying to do is to simply redistribute the wealth of the country...which has for a very long time been in the hands of a very small minority....
In the meantime, back in the real world, 40 percent of the population is unemployed with the numbers rising monthly - at least in the bad old days, everyone who wanted to work had a job. So much so, that hundreds of thousands (millions over the decades) of Africans from all over Africa actually went there to work - leaving their democratic, independent countries to work in the most racist of countries on earth where they were treated as second-class citizens. Houston, we have a major problem. |
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
When the ANC begins to falter (and it will), do you think they'll put their hands up and say, "Ok, we messed up." No they won't. They'll say it's all the fault of those horrid greedy white racists. You hear undercurrents of that already. And here in the West, the trendy left cheers them on, with the tacit message that anything bad that happens to whites in Africa serves them right.
And, as you see elsewhere in Africa, when the whites have finally been driven out, and the Indians with them, then it'll be 'international racism', or 'slavery' or 'unfair trade' that is to blame. Currently, in Africa, China is the flavour of the month, because the African despots think they can get help from China without awkward questions being asked about their mode of governing. But already there is resentment brewing against the Chinese (think, for example, of Zambia). If they build anything for themselves in Africa, that too will be snatched from them, and they too will be condemned as racists and exploiters and all the other rubbish. Pablo |
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
For the rest, I don't need to comment in detail. What people in your office think is neither here nor there, and to suggest that my criticisms of what the ANC is doing to South African education mean that somehow I support or advocate Bantu education is just nonsense. I was against institutionalised racism then, and I am against it today. And what is the policy of so called Black Economic Empowerment if not another form of insitutionalised racism? One which is as deeply corrupting in its own way as was apartheid. You might chose to reflect on why South African university qualifications are ceasing to be accepted and recognised any longer in the West before you say that education is not being debased in SA. You obviously don't know what the black consciousness thing is all about. It's a whole analysis of the world, and a deeply flawed one at that, which merely compounds the problems in places like Africa. It is a long way from merely being "proud to be black" - whatever that means. Proud to be good, or learned, or virtuous, yes. Proud to be black? Should I be proud to be white? Do me a favour |
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Sorry, I don't accept the you-have-to-be-black-to-understand argument. If it is true, the you-have-to-be-white-to-understand argument is equally valid, and then no dialogue is possible between races. The ultimate racist analysis, and one I vehemently reject.
There is a tendency nowadays to try to ascribe everything to one's origins, rather than what one aims for. I am tempted to add that I, along with the majority of white South Africans, voted in 1992 for an end to discrimination on the basis of the colour of one's skin. People voted that way because it was the right thing, not because it was of any benefit to themselves or their racial group. I did not want people to be selected and judged because they happened to have been born brown, or pink, or any other colour. But what do we have now? More racism than ever, masquerading as affirmative action. More crime. More corruption. More unemployment. And Mbeki spending millions to fortify his own home while the rest of the country he governs goes to hell. Pablo |
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Hi
I have grown up and lived in South Africa all my life. I lived in JHB for 14 years and moved back to Durban 3 years ago as I thought it would be safer. I am not going to go into the polical racial issues or quote crime statistics (yes we have been affected directly by crime). If you have not lived here you have no idea how exhausting it is to not sleep at night, to be suspiscious of everybody every where you go. Even going out to a family restaurant you are potentially in danger of being involved in an armed robbery. Yes there is crime in the UK and Australia and it is in the news because it is a big deal. Half the crime here does not even make into the news. I had to deal with the police in December after an "armed robbery" at my business and yes they were very good but I got to see how futile their resources are and that they have not got a chance in hell of making a dent in the crime here. A friend who owns a security company has told us of the corruption and goings on in the security business (We pay a fortune to be protected but half of them are the ones committing the crimes) . Every day in this beautiful country we lock ourselves up in our maximum security prisons we call home. We have parks and beaches but there is not a chance in hell I would go to any of these alone with my kids or even there altogether. As for going into the townships I think you are playing russian roulette. Basically what I am trying to say is that if you are thinking of moving to SA please think long and hard about it. My family and I have tried to stick it out but are now in the process of applying to New Zealand. We have decided that survival and freedom in our own home is more important. We want to make sure our kids have a chance of being employed when they are grown up. . |
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
I wonder why South Africa has been listed as one of the top violent crime countries in the world? Must be some stupid idiots that has a problem with race. PLEASE! There is a consistent outcry from the citizenry of all races throughout S.A. about the level and brutality of crime being committed. All the lefty bleeding hearted sympathy for the under privileged does not address the impact lawlessness is having on the country. S.A. has an incompetent and inadequate government that is not addressing the needs of her people. Talk to most nationals that have left the country in the past 6 or so years and the first word that comes out of their mouths is CRIME! If the government could at least wrap themselves around this issue alone would be a huge improvement, and incentive for people to return and work on rebuilding a better country. Until they do, look to your neighbours to the North, coming to a dorpie near you.:frown:
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Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
I just re-read this and had to laugh. They've re-distributed it alright. By forcing productive companies to close and making Sexwale, Khumalo, Ramaphosa, et al, about a half dozen or so 'comrades' , billionaires in the process. Leaving the wealth in the hand of a very small minority........ But again, there's a whole lot of other unknown people who have benefited maybe not as much but their lives have indeed changed for the better. Who? you may ask. I am one of them and I have met a lot of them in SA and in the UK. and if things are as this website states, then we are making progress. http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/search/jobs/760039.htm Does this mean the ANC has done enough? Absolutely NOT. SA's political system lacks the required opposition to stop the ruling party from being complacent. I think our government official have become complacent and yes some think they still in the freedom struggle. As long as the ANC continues to get the sentimental vote, nothing will change but I believe SA citizens will realise at some point that the struggle is over and people have to get on with business and vote for whoever does the job well not. I think thats one good thing about western politics. No landslide majority 60%??? what is that for a non performing government?? So much so, that hundreds of thousands (millions over the decades) of Africans from all over Africa actually went there to work - leaving their democratic, independent countries to work in the most racist of countries on earth where they were treated as second-class citizens. Houston, we have a major problem. |
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Originally Posted by Susie1979UK
(Post 4577564)
Hi all, new to the forum today. Had a read through of all the posts and discussions which make very interesting reading.
My Fiancee is South African, he has been living here for 7 years and we have been together for 2. He left to come here because he was a victim of crime and got fed up with having to look over his shoulder. He used to say he'd never go back........... Recently, we have both been considering relocating to South Africa. I for one, am losing my faith in the UK, I work in Social Services and we have a new asylum seeker each week, most of whom are blatently not genuine cases but still are given support from our welfare system. I am also sick of the 'chav' culture, young teenagers having children to secure council accommodation, the level of 'job seekers' who think that certain jobs are beneath them, street drinkers, political correctness gone mad,etc, there was even an armed robbery at our local off licence the other week and this is in Surrey!:ohmy: Now, I know about the pitfalls of living in South Africa, the crime, the difference in lifestyle, my partner has been more than honest about what the reality is like. But at this point in time, it still seems more appealing than the UK. I've read all the comments about 'Don't do it', 'you're a fool' but IF we were to do it, how would we do it successfully? Thanks!:thumbsup: http://www.sagoodnews.co.za http://www.homecomingrevolution.co.za http://www.southafrica.info/ess_info...o-material.htm I hope these give you a different perspective to SA. |
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Originally Posted by MJ71
(Post 4632041)
Hi
I have grown up and lived in South Africa all my life. I lived in JHB for 14 years and moved back to Durban 3 years ago as I thought it would be safer. I am not going to go into the polical racial issues or quote crime statistics (yes we have been affected directly by crime). If you have not lived here you have no idea how exhausting it is to not sleep at night, to be suspiscious of everybody every where you go. Even going out to a family restaurant you are potentially in danger of being involved in an armed robbery. Yes there is crime in the UK and Australia and it is in the news because it is a big deal. Half the crime here does not even make into the news. I had to deal with the police in December after an "armed robbery" at my business and yes they were very good but I got to see how futile their resources are and that they have not got a chance in hell of making a dent in the crime here. A friend who owns a security company has told us of the corruption and goings on in the security business (We pay a fortune to be protected but half of them are the ones committing the crimes) . Every day in this beautiful country we lock ourselves up in our maximum security prisons we call home. We have parks and beaches but there is not a chance in hell I would go to any of these alone with my kids or even there altogether. As for going into the townships I think you are playing russian roulette. Basically what I am trying to say is that if you are thinking of moving to SA please think long and hard about it. My family and I have tried to stick it out but are now in the process of applying to New Zealand. We have decided that survival and freedom in our own home is more important. We want to make sure our kids have a chance of being employed when they are grown up. . |
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Originally Posted by Tish11
(Post 4629605)
I've read most of the postings and I am greatly disappointed. I am a south african temporarily based in England and I am moving back to SA in September.
My question is: Why do we get so many new members come here and offer this SA is not unsafe for folk asking questions and after a few posts we never hear from them again. I direct this question to Tish11 in hope that you will consider this and make an effort to break the trend when you go back to SA in Sept. The other factor that I would like to point out is that our serious turning point for us in making the decision to leave SA in 2005 was when we discovered my wife was pregnant. We both ran our own companies in SA, were bond(mortgage)-free, had a beautiful house with a swimming pool blah blah blah. My wife falling pregnant was not planned and our lives did a 180 when we knew we were going to be parents. We were no longer just a couple enjoying our careers and beautiful home in South Africa.. Without getting spiritual the creation of life itself has got to be life’s greatest miracle and on the arrival of our wee boy all our material possessions de-valued in a flash. I have previously mentioned on this forum that when we heard the story of the baby, mother and grandmother that were executed ( nothing stolen) in Pretoria, I cried. I am a grown man and I am not ashamed to say that because I not only wept for that child but every other innocent child slaughtered in that mad country. I can not imagine what a parent, family member or a friend must feel when life is just wasted like this and of course the thousands of baby rapes that going on. This is the REAL future of SA (and any country for that matter) and in SA helpless babies have no protection from the barbarians roaming around. You hear it time after time of the murdering of parents in front of children. Never mind good or bad education, how are theses atrocities going on all the time ( in volume) effecting the children of today that are our future leaders. This is about a very basic education – right and wrong. My point: I can truly say that no one really understands the love for a child until you become parent. For us that love meant offering our child a future and moving away from a very barbaric culture whether or not we had been a victim of crime the violent crime culture was / is all around. As parents we felt that the “influences:” of living in such an environment was not an option for our child. All the politicians talk, all the BEE & AA policies blah blah blah the real future of the country is neither respected or protected ( from the barbarians roaming around) – the children. :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: :ohmy: That is what I love about New Zealand (despite its faults) is what this country offers and their outlook toward children – the real future. |
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Tish11, I've been lurking for a while now, not needing to post as most of what i wished to say was being said far more eloquently than I could.
I wish to comment on two of your posts: Somewhere in there you stated that although crime was bad if you took proper care, precautions etc you would be safe. Wrong! You could spend a lifetime in SA without experiencing crime, but if you do get tagged, spotted, chosen, the criminals have the element of suprise and you can only hope that you are one of the "lucky" ones. I speak from bitter experience. The problem then becomes that although you may never be "chosen" again, you will spend the rest of your life in SA with a knot in your stomach, waiting for it to happen again. And fearing it. Your next point i wish to take issue with and I am happy to post links to each one in reputable Press.: Education has been equal since 1994, they dropped the Matriculation Standard and then increased it progressively based on those who started school in 94. And there have been some stunning results, There's one little School in KZN, one teacher and 100% pass rates, every year. but the Average is between 40-46% matriculation with less than 22% Uni Exemption. And only 22% of all Uni Students graduate. There was an Article in the past few weeks about a Literacy and Numeracy Survey done Africa wide with 3rd year Uni Students. SA students were useless at both in comparison to other African States. In fact, it was so bad that 3rd year law students could'nt write an essay never mind a brief! For the past two years the institute of Chartered Accountants has been decrying the low pass rate even though they had adjusted the levels of difficulty. There are some concerns regarding the Literacy levels at our Medical Schools. Before the inevitable catcalls of racism , I have no axe to grind, I dont care, I and my child are out of the country,but I also feel that laziness is being disguised by a call of dis-advantage. my .02c worth. (My percentages are based on memory and may be a few points out either way, but not significantly for the points i am making.) |
Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Welcome to the board Dax. I think I've read you on the 'infamous' forum once or twice (not THE infamous one, but the other 'infamous' one) if that makes any sense:rofl:
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Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Thank you, TT, I recognise a few writing styles here too :)
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Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
Just had HCR's latest nauseating little newsletter plop into my inbox. Their banality and dishonesty never ceases to amaze me.
Pablo |
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