Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I have a few friends who are engineers (Wits) and they'd go into the townships / Soweto over the weekends in the 80's and teach classes, maths and sciences, to the black kids who were interested in studying but who had probs during the week with the troubles that went on. :)

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

True. My husband has just gotten back from a 3 week business trip to the UK, stayed with old friends of ours, and was amazed at how the kids lived just like we did in S.A. in the 70's......they left in the morning to play with their mates, football, cricket, whatever and came home only when they got hungry. Their teenage daughters go off on their own everywhere.

I can see that happening in S.A.

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Yes, and that it exactly the point that I am trying to focus on. How did you do it, what made you different to actually get ahead and succeed.

It would seem that many people believe that under apartheid system it was *impossible* to actually get a place where you have and you say really it was up to the individual. So what I hear is that there was a means to do what you have done.

Growing up in Scotland and leaving school in the 70s there was no fun and high unemployment. I chose to move to go to SA on a two-year contract and developed myself. A lot of my friends that stayed in Scotland have never moved on and many couldn’t find work and became depressed. Same kind of thing.

So ultimately although you grew up a black South African and subject to the apartheid ( crazy system) you still made it through with no *special* assistance.

That just cements my argument that it was entirely up to the individual regardless of apartheid oppression or whatever circumstances we are subject to. :thumbup:

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

What really annoys me is people that sign up here and try to discredit other members with there one & only contribution to the forum. :ohmy:

In my case ( which I would imagine from your post annoys you) I joined this forum in 2004, three years ago whilst still in SA. We were evaluating our short listed options of Canada & New Zealand and got a lot of useful advice.

My *commitment* was to post back information on what we found in New Zealand and the process / experiences. We have an opinion that we have formed offering our experience and comparison to South Africa.

Just as much as it annoys you to hear the negative side of SA ( the truth) it annoys me that there is a censorship on South African media to * control* the news from there.

The 24 hours a day you make reference to is due to the world having different time zones.

You ask the question why an ex SAer in Oz should be looking at this forum. The answer to that is, in my case I am utterly appalled at the propaganda NONSENSE that has / is spoken of regarding South Africa whilst trying to convince ex-pats to consider returning back to SA. For example folk like Guy Lundy who are paid large sums of money to do rah rah talks and run websites like the Homecoming Revolution where they have auto web-administrators changing the word RAPE to NAUGHTY. :ohmy:
Please ………
So to answer your question, in my case it deeply saddens me that people can be allowed to be LURED by such TACTICS and I for one feel that people should be aware of the real truth. :D

The UK is not the only option for people leaving SA. Being British myself considered the UK as a last option to move to , out of SA for the very same reasons you mention.
There are countries much better than the UK but other members will and are allowed to debate that too ! :D

Ultimately most folk that live in SA live in fear, fear for their life. That is the main problem of SA. :ohmy:

Ahem, so your input is based on …………………� �€¦.. Internet research ? I though you said that annoyed you .

Yeah, I can offer our *experience* trying to admit our 18 month old baby to the local A & E, clinic. R8000 deposit at the reception otherwise they would not even look at our son. Yup, medical insurance is a BIG MUST. If you are shot and don’t have insurance it can take your whole situation down as medical treatment is BIG BUSINESS TOO in SA.

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Mate,

YOU NAILED IT RIGHT ON THE HEAD…….

The real problem with SA is that folk like you are expected to be making positive contributions ALL THE TIME ……

That ranges from the thousands of beggars in the streets, the chilren living in cardboard boxes, the squatter camps - EVERYWHERE

The beggars in the car parks offering to look after your car, he jobless beggars looking for work, the starving

The list goes on & on …………. Endless. Of course you will be made to feel guilty.

Whilst all that is happening what are the ANC doing about poverty and is it not their responsibility ?

Of course the Zulu king will be needing anther R24 million rand make alterations to their house and Mbeki R90 million for a security wall around his home.

Sounds like the tactics north of SA to me….. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Like TT said in an earlier posting, he knows people who used to go into Soweto to teach maths etc. People started various community centre's and in my neigbhourhood we had something called Funda..(Learning) Centre and there we used to get extra tuition on saturdays and during school holidays. But the problem was because most tutors offered their services for free, usually they would select the brightest kids in the class with a view to nurturing the perceived potential. The tuition then concentrated largely on Maths, science and english so most kids were left out. Until today, you never find enough students interested in maths and science..(a global trend)..and i think it was very unfortunate that not all subjects were offered at these places. There were various other centres which concentrated on arts like FUBA.(Federation union for Black Art).etc and I am sure helped a lot of people in the Arts industry too. And I'm sure there were other white people at the time helping out. The guy who inspired and continues to do so is indeed TT, a WITS graduate. Extremely hard working and he used to teach maths and science in the back rooms at his house in Soweto, he didnt charge for his services. He was friends with my brother and after his death he became like a brother to me. A Civil Engineer himself he later opened his own consultancy firm. What impresses me most about this guy is that he refuses for his firm to be called previously disadvantaged. If a project is not empowering in terms of skills he wont take it until there is proper skills transfer/development he refuses to participate in the so called empowerment partner deals that do nothing but keep black people were they are development wise and always dependant on BEE.
He sees his company as just any other engineering consultancy in the country. He actually employs anyone as long as you can do the job well, pink ,blue, yellow or white....the criteria is skills not colour. I hope there's enough companies like that in SA.
Going back to my story, After completing my matric, SA was moving closer to the democracy that we now have and bans on political parties were removed. At that stage, various political parties were offering bursaries mainly for returning exiles.
When I approached the ANC at Shell House for a bursary they didnt hesitate. The bursary officer impressed by a young black girl who wanted to study Civil Engineering, gave me one look and sorted the paper work right away.
You are probably wondering if I am an ANC member or know someone who is...NO. I was never even asked to join.
So, Campell. I had support I didnt do it alone. I dont think it was possible to just do it alone. I was surrounded by the right group of people and most importantly I had the right attitude. I understood only too well why my brother and father died and I was determined to make sure its not in vain.
They paid with their lives for south Africa to have a better future for all....maybe the "ALL" was a bit ambitious but one thing I have always been determined to do is atleast secure a better future for ME and in the process be part of the solution to SA.

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

My wife and I moved to South Africa 14 months ago, and it is great. If you choose the right area to live, and can bring some money with you then you will be fine, at least as fine as you would be in the UK. The crime is over-hyped here, as long as you are sensible and follow the "rules".

I do share concern over the job situation though, most companies have no choice but to prefer black females, but it is not impossible by any means... Good luck

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

I moved with my husband back to SA in 2003. It has been perfect. I agree with all the above said.

In addition if you are an entrepreneur you can do extremely well. Looking for jobs is not necessarily the best option. Opening you own business in the right sector and market can be exceptionally profitable.

I think in SA is just like in every other country. There are good places and bad places. Good jobs and bad job, good market and bad markets.

But the life style in SA still beats most of the western countries.

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Yeah, my nephew will agree with that as he recovers from his gun shot wound from a robbery. He is just unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time twice in one year. Quite swish area too so must be the problem. Funny thing is, all the friends and family I have in S.A. from Durbs to Pietermaritzburg to P.E. to Cape Town to septic old Joeys have had a brush with unfortunate incidents. Must be an unlucky bunch!:devil_smile: :wink_smile:

My hubs is a corporate exec that keeps getting c.v.'s from professionals in his sector in S.A. begging for help in getting out. Must be the crowd we associate with.:p

When a family member that owned the largest armed response company in S.A. ( money pouring in by the bucket load) decided to sell up his lucrative business and assets in preparation for extracting himself and family out of S.A. you have to know that the signs are not good.

Saying that, of course life is otherwise just peachy.:sneaky:

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

It is sad that many people in SA had a bad experience, however it is even sadder that everyone has to think that this is the only thing in SA and that things are not bad.

By the way, just to add perspective to the picture, we have had a very close family member high jacked at gun point at a post office. But the again, that person was far too late in the evening out in the dark in a “not so good area”. So, if you think that these stories are far from my reality, think again.

I read an article in 2006/7 that something like 100, 0000 South Africans have returned.

Which side of the wall do you want to look at?

We all know that all countries have problem. There is no country problem free, and yes you do have to take care of security, but I have seen some areas in the US that are far worse than SA.

Fortunately, I prefer to look at the green side of the fence and therefore that is what I also experience. I do not however deny the fact that problems exist and you do have to be careful.

By the way, I often work in JHB CBD, those that know the area will understand what I am talking about and I found that the paranoia is far out of control in comparison with reality.

But then again you can also live in SA in Orania, that is the safest place probably the entire planet (however you would have to speak Afrikaan, which I don’t at any rate).

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Yes, and how many of those have subsequently left the country because they were fooled by the Homecoming Revolution that you obviously work for?


Name them.

Quote:

---

Fortunately, I prefer to look at the green side of the fence

---

So did David Bullard, who was not touched by crime in all these years. In fact, he for a long time took pot-shots at the 'chicken runners'. He is singing a very different tune these days, after he was nearly murdered in his home a few weeks ago. I've provided a link to his column of two weeks ago. Who would have thought. Amazing how your perspective changes when you are personally targeted or your wife is raped, or your child is raped/shot or or or.....

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Okay, let's put this all into perspective for those reading this thread and considering travelling/living in S.A. It is, I repeated many times over, one of the most beautiful places on our planet.

It is also noted as one of the most dangerous countries in the world to live in right now as we speak.

There is a brain drain happening in S.A. and simply reading the South African media, and well as the infamous Homecoming Revolution is that they are crying out for skilled people. First question that should come to mind is why there is such a serious loss of skilled labour and what caused these skilled people to leave? This should be a neon sign let alone a red flag that there is a problem here, a serious one.

One of the other posters did indicate that finding a job may be a challenge (understatement) and that coming over and starting a business is the way to go. Brilliant if you want to invest that money and what if you simply do not have that resource to spend in the first place, or want to risk in a new environment?

People will go where people will go and the best of luck to them. At least warn them that where they are heading has problems and they had better be informed and as prepared as they possibly can in attempting to prevent having to deal with them. End of story. Simply end of story.

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Hi Susie

Good luck your plans.
SA is a beautiful country and provided you are in a position to fend for yourself you can have a fantastic time.

My wife and myself are also planning on moving to South Africa soon. South Africa needs people who are able to start businesses and can create jobs. It is the only country in Africa that actually has a very good chance of being a complete success. Yes, crime is high. Yes, unemployment is high but if all South Africans were as passionate about their home as your bog standard American, British or French citizen it would be a completely different place. Do bare in mind that these coutries survived world war 2.

It's sad that people can be so negative.
Anyway, do take it on board but don't let it ruin your plans because going there and wanting to make a contribution is noble and you will have good fun wile you are at it:)


Regards

Ian

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Hi Karenwhe, pleased to meet you, have been chatting to Seanwhe over in the late Homecoming revolution and have enjoyed his positive take and no, I dont think you are paid by HCR.

As I've stated over and again, no axe to grind, people have choices and live with them.

Am however curious about your figure of 100,000 returnees?
I know the UK, which tends to be the Gap year/paying back the loan with Sterling/easiest to get into for a lot of youngsters who then return when their two years are up, has about 20k Saffa's at any one time.

If the SA census figures are correct that between the last two census (Censei sound sounds like martial arts) 841,000 white SA bums were out of SA.
That also excludes a large amount of people who left in the 80's 90's and pre 94's.
Which figure also excludes a very large number of Black, Coloured, Indian people and families who are also overseas and there does'nt seem to be any handle on how many that is,
Although the Nursing profession state figures in the 20 plus thousand.

Curious about where your hundred k returnee's figure came from

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Great parties, can’t deny !


Where are you based now so we understand what you are comparing SA too !

The difference with WW is that generally the country was all on the same side. PLUS after the war the country was re-built, with South Africa the country is ( supposedly) not at war and the place is being destroyed into a hovel. For example, Hillbrow & surrounding areas. So I really don’t understand your point here.

SA is a beautiful place but we have a four year old boy and there is no way in hell we want to bring him up there, firstly in their violent culture, secondly where they are constantly lowering the education bar to suit ( this does not encourage children).

So many people are starting to say on this forum that to go back to SA the best way is to start a business. NONSENSE, our business was based on educational products for the black Africans and we were starting to get FORCED into having a black partner of 51% WHICH IS CONTROLLING SHARES – hello.

So what you mean to say is that it is best for some black person with zero skills to PRETEND to be your partner on paper as you no-doubt ( as in our case) not be able to find a potential partner to join your company as there is such a dire shortage of skills.

Of course like any business person would look at the big picture, there is also the case of getting your money out the country should you decide to leave SA – then what ?

At R1 million equal to £70 k ( as of today) where is the long term business sense in that ?


We knew ( personally) so many black people that sat on boards of several companies where there name was / is on the letterhead for compliance sake. Of course they will take a share in your business to allow you to use their name but that is as far as their contribution to the business goes. Oh, BTW try advertising for a black partner to BUY IN to your business, this has been designed for PREVIOUSLY DISADVANTAGED so where do you think they are going to get the money to buy in ?

Anyone suggesting to people to move to a strange country in general and open up a business is a fool. The best route is always to work in that country and preferably in the business you intend to start so you can gain local knowledge. Then you move into starting your own business. South Africa is fraught with corruption and of course if deals go wrong and e.g. people don’t want to pay there is always the threat of violence.

We have a friend that dealt at government level and told us that the government tender board is run by a mafia over there , so quite obviously it is the ruling government are setting the precedence what do you expect business to be further down the chain.

We used to do business with several of the biggest banks in SA and I was horrified how many of their staff expected bribes for us to get business from them. Doing business in Africa is a whole new set of rules and many times it is the one holding the gun that sets the rules.:ohmy:

I would say that someone running a legitimate business in the UK and moving to SA would find it completely different. Of course, starting with just trying to get a telephone from the only service provider there, Telkom. :ohmy:

Leaving SA two years ago for us, both my wife and I have start our own businesses and have had to re-learn to trust again and understand that there are places in the world where you can do business in an honest environment. This is the future for our son; this will be his foundation for his future. :) :)

BTW SA citizen – proud.

Welcome to BE and congrats on your first post, hope you are going to keep posting.

Just as a matter of interest, for someone with such a strong handle ( SA Proud) why did you leave SA ? ;)