Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

I just had a look, thanks,

Interestingly enough saw a recent news article about Fourways Mall, where we used to shop. A shoot out between 5 cops and 17 armed robbers broke out in the shopping mall. :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx...ews__national/

Scary stuff no matter how *careful* you are.

Cheers

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

I am not in the habit of posting up this kind of thing, but this was the lead story today on the IOL newsfeed. For those who do not know IOL (Independent On Line) it is one of the main SA newsfeeds, a source for most of the South African press, and not an organisation with any particular strong agenda or bias. And, indeed, this story itself was written by a black reporter, for those who try to see colour in all opinions.

I glanced at the Homecoming Revolution site earlier. Though they are despicable, I will say that they have at least restored their forums, which, at one time, they pulled the plug on because of the number of negative posts. How, even though those forums are highly "moderated", it is striking how many are unable to dig up much in the way of good or hopeful news. Striking too is the number of people who were taken in by the HCR propaganda, returned to SA, and then found that they had been spun a yarn. Some had upped and left again, others who posted were trapped back there, at least until they could get it together to leave once more.

Pablo

A Nigerian businesswoman is heartbroken after robbers stormed a house in Johannesburg and shot dead her sleeping baby.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?newsl...5a1a20070413at

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Tragic Pablo. I just finished having a chat with my sister who is in Joburg at the moment. She has told me that my nephew is really having a tough time psychologically after the bullet he took during a recent robbery in Bassonia . His arm will take a long time to heal but I think the effects of this maybe much longer. ( He was carjacked just over 9 months ago.) I understand that one of the ladies who was standing to the left side of him when they burst in to the take-away, eventually succumbed to her injuries. The whole thing so pointless and sad.:( I've been trying to track it in the papers but have not found anything about it. My sister told me that there was a small blurb in their local and will send it to me. She read it out to me and it sounded like such a minor hiccup in a day of business that you would not know that there were 5 people with various gunshot wounds. :blink: Unreal.:mad:

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

I dont know how a person can avoid a situation like this (as many positive posters have written - "if you take precautions you will be safe"). According to SABC news last night the woman was here on holiday, I saw pics of the house and it didn't look too bad in terms of security. Then I saw the pre-cast concrete perimeter wall had been bashed down, the window smashed and the burglar bars bent up at a 90 deg angle. These guys were determined to get in. And they managed to get away with a few cellphones, which they equated to the worth of one 2 year old baby????? :confused: WTF!

But I suppose the baby slaughterers were entitled to a bit of crime, after all they are uneducated and under-privileged due to Bantu education/apartheid. And of course those damn white farmers who defiantly hold on to the land producing food, they are to blame for not returning the farms to the previously disadvantaged, thereby denying them jobs. And BEE/AA is clearly moving too slowly, as all these folk should have jobs right (of course we should replace all those who took advantage of apartheid, with those who were suppressed - that will solve the 40% unemployment rate and stop crime - right?)

Can I say it again: dont be fooled into coming to SA thinking that by taking precautions, you will be safe. Well might you say crime can be experienced in any city on the world, but please show me where but in sunny SA will you get the frequency of these types of acts. It was a 2 year old baby for F sake.

Sorry, but this type of thing boils my blood :curse:

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

I read it yesterday and couldn't even post about it. It upset me as much as the Sunnyside one where a father/son was on the cellphone where he heard his wife pleading for her life and heard the shots that killed her, his mother and their child.

Imagine going to S.A. on holiday, staying in a fortress-like home (as kevin quoted, "I saw pics of the house and it didn't look too bad in terms of security. Then I saw the pre-cast concrete perimeter wall had been bashed down, the window smashed and the burglar bars bent up at a 90 deg angle"), being woken up or whatever to some armed gunmen who had broken through, and who upon hearing a child crying, go up to her and shoot her in the head - taking cellphones with them.

How sickening is that? IT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU ANYWHERE AT ANYTIME IN SOUTH AFRICA. No matter how secure you think you might be, the chances of it happening are extremely high.

And know the best about these gunmen? They will never be caught and even if they are, they will either not see a day in court as they'll have bribed the cops or public prosecutors' office with a couple of hundred Rands, or they'll escape or be let out jail on the President's birthday within a year or two, which they tend to do every year - release convicted murderers and rapists on their birthdays to walk the streets.

Conviction rate is 2% or thereabouts at the moment, with the vast majority of those walking out/escaping within no time at all.

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Tegs, I truly hope he can get out ASAP so he can return to normalcy again. ::(

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

The website you have linked-to here is run by the FNB sponsored people that also run the Home Coming Revolution ( I love that term – revolution don’t you) and also *hires* people like Guy Lundy to tour the country doing speeches to *big business* in SA , the rah rah why people should be positive about South Africa .

The HCR site has been also been known as the ANC propaganda machine and personally ANY website or other where people opinions ( such as public forums) as supposedly subject to the freedom of speech ( the big rah rah human right thing in Africa) and then sets up an automation on the site that……………..

When you type the word RAPE the automated moderator replaces the RAPE word with NAUGHTY. I am sure it is the also the same with the word MURDER.

Personally that speaks volumes in terms of the CONTROL over the content and proves that their site/s are not open to people’s true views.

Therefore….. in my opinion 1000 new jobs a day, that 27 000 new jobs a month , where does this information come from ? Aha, statistics SA yet another major reliable source? It is well known that stats SA are also CONTROLLED and the content manipulated. :eek:

Other websites came on the scene showing images of Hillbrow, Berea, Yeoville and downtown Jo’burg and the farmer killings. These sites were shut down as they were painting a negative image of South Africa. But in terms of the First National Bank sponsored sites that bend and twist the content to suit, because they paint a positive picture of SA , then it is okay.:eek:

The main sponsor of these sites, the First National Bank ( FNB) was recently told by the presidents office, yep, at that level and communicated to the CEO of the FNB that they should stop a marketing campaign that they were about to launch as it was based on the serious violent crime problem in SA. Of course all the material for the campaign had been printed plus all the other costs which were quoted in the press as R2.4 million. So when freedom of speech is controlled by the ANC where is the source of the REAL TRUTH. Certainly not stats SA.:eek:


I have in many of my posts referred these propaganda tactics to the Nazis who of course ultimately had their own agenda, I think the term is ethnic cleansing?

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

As my post above …………………. .

I have in many of my posts referred these propaganda tactics to the Nazis who of course ultimately had their own agenda, I think the term is ethnic cleansing?

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...4602665C908539

I guess this situation is all because of poverty and the apartheid that ended 14 years ago.

Have you heard ANY other countries that have to use security guards and panic buttons for the teachers?

Teachers are quoted as “losing their passion” for teaching as the *fear* takes over.

I guess the *just be careful* attitude is not working here. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

I may not be as elloquent as most of you..(blame it on Bantu education:)...joking)..so maybe the point I am trying to put across may not come through as i intend. But all I am trying to say is that this South Africa you are all having a go at, is the same SA I lived in all my life.
Growing up in soweto, violence in one form or another has always been a reality of life. Does that make things Okay? Hell NO.
But is it bad enough to persuade me not to go back, definitely Not. I've heard most of you say it is scary to live in SA...I guess I've been scared all my life then. A very brief story of my life.
As i was growing up, my mom worked in the Johannesburg suburbs, I think it was Parktown, as a maid...(we called it the kitchens)...We liked it cause every once in a while when the baas was away we were allowed to visit, it would be the only time we got to see this very beautiful part of joburg. My dad was a messenger boy in some offices also in johannesburg...(dont blame bantu eduaction, my folks were just plain dom).. My Dad later died in detention when i was 9. The last time I saw him he was on his way to work.
When I was 11, one day my brother came to pick me up from school as usual. On our way home, he was shot by the police and he died at my feet. I cant remember much of what went on in my mind but I remember looking at his body and thinking he is not dead, he is just in pain so he doesnt really feel like saying much. Fortunately, a neigbhour saw this and she came to the rescue. We couldnt phone mom at work, we didnt have a phone so we had to send a message through other people. She came home eventually and we had the burial etc...Life went on as usual.
But guess what? this was not the only time I encountered violence and most other people in Soweto have similar stories some worse.
I dont think I have at any point ever said its okay for people to be violent. It was not okay then and it is not okay now. But, pardon me for defending what the ANC did in the past. I have never said what they are doing now is good either. However, I am prepared to go back to give to SA what it gave to me.
Also, i have friends who have gone back to SA and they are still happy to have done so. For me, SA has a wealth of opportunities and if BEE is used in the right way, I am a worthy candidate. Dont bark at me just yet, BEE is being exploited at the moment but not every BEE candidate is a lazy and incompetent person as someone has suggested.

Apartheid missed an opportunity to create an amazing nation of south africa because i think there are some great people there of every race and I hope as a nation we do not miss out on this opportunity again.

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

I am sorry to hear about your pain and loss. Truly I am.

I don't know how old you are. It doesn't matter. But many people for many years opposed what they perceived as the injustices of apartheid. What I will call the liberal view - the classical liberal view - has never had much support in Africa. That is the view, to use another's phrase, that a man should be judged not by the colour of his skin but by the content of his character.

No solution will come for Africa, or for South Africa, from burying one's head in the sand, or from name-calling, which one hears far too much of.

Nor will there be any quick fixes. Quick fixes don't work. Too many (not all, but many) black South Africans were denied a decent education. That was wrong. But you can't rush education. It will take time to turn things around.

BEE is corrupting. It promotes people who should not be promoted; it rewards people who should not be rewarded; it distorts the natural relations between one human being and another. Apartheid had a similar effect. Both corrupted people. Both put idiots into senior positions where they did not belong.

Some ANC politician recently said that BEE - aka affirmative action - will never end. That, alas, is the political truth of the matter.

By making skin colour and/or race the determining factor for everything, you do not forge a nation, you merely create conflict, mistrust, hatred, and, eventually war.

When all the whites are gone, then it will be the Indians. When they are gone, it will be the Xhosa against the Zulus, and so on. You just need to look at the rest of Africa to see where that path leads.

It's hard to tell from what you have written, but it sounds to me like you don't need BEE to succeed.

Pablo

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Bang on. I totally agree with that statement as it applies to old regime, and to the new one. All that has happened in S.A. is the switching of roles. Apartheid is very much alive and well and as discriminating as ever. That has to change to give the country a fighting chance of developing into a united, prosperous society for all.

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Tish11, there is nothing adequate I could say regarding your loss.
As there is nothing adequate for any senseless loss.
I voted for, and cried for, Madiba's promise in 94, " Never again"
I've given up on that promise,
There's too much pointscoring , too many ego's, too much me, me, me.
I buried 7 friends who wore uniform and 3 who did not..
Their deaths were senseless but a price for the feeling on the day of voting,
Now it seems to have created a monster.
My thoughts are with you.

Re: So, we are thinking of moving......
 

Yours is a really sad story and definitely highlights the wrongs of the apartheid era.

It is also sad that “whites” are generally accused of being racialists in South Africa due to the history (such as your history) but I know many white folk that actively supported the change from that old regime.

Ultimately whatever the situation, two wrongs don’t make a right. South Africa is not the only country that has had historical challenges and the human race has experienced two world wars and the dropping of atomic bombs.

Personally I can not understand this whole current hype regarding slavery. I thought that was gone 130 years ago but somehow it seems to have resurrected and the insinuations that there are still outstanding debts to be paid.

It seems that there are so many black groups that want to regurgitate history in order to prove that the world is indebted to them. My opinion on that is we can not adopt selective memories and believe that all suffering in history was limited to black people. The north American Indians for example. Being a Scot there is some sore history there too.

Initiatives like affirmative action can work if there is accountability and responsibility measures in place and such positions should be milestoned with measureables and monitored for compliance. Thus ensuring that opportunities are not taken for granted and that there is an understanding of commitment to performance which ultimately impacts on any economy.

The ANC have clearly failed in this area as they have instead of skilling-up, they have adopted the principal of lowering the bar, for example the SA police force. On the occasions in SA that I had to go to police stations I was appalled at the level of basic operational functionality, for example the ability to read and write.

If reading and writing are the prerequisite skills to become a member of the SA police force and a suitable applicant can not read or write then up-skill them and train them into the position before putting them into the operational role. It is no wonder that private security companies were used to protect the SA police.

I am interested to see the latest courtship going on with Jacob Zuma and he is certainly homing in on the shortcomings of the ANC, crime and health whilst making serious effort to appeal to the Afrikaners.

When we break it all down to personal choices we made a decision to leave SA, as there was most certainly this air of being white meant we had to pay back, regardless. My business was based on products we had designed to educate black people and yet I was faced with this BEE situation many times in business and I could not find a black partner with the right skill set and there was no policy that offered us a time-frame to up-skill someone.

My wife is South African, born & bred, our son was born in South Africa and I lived in SA for over 20 years and regarded (past tense) as my home. The biggest influencing factor for us making the decision to move to a country and start all over again was CRIME. Having to deal with all the collapse of efficiency levels ( for example the beautiful Parktown you referred to is pretty much a hovel now) made life harder in the day-to-day of things but having to live feeling like we were in a prison was just a factor that we could not put a price tag on.

The other factors were of course the signs that the infrastructure of the country was falling apart at the seems (the police force as one example) and just as Mbeki has concerns about the economic future we too think of our economic future and there was simply too much racial preferencing for us to consider a future for our son in South Africa.

The policies of the ANC just don’t stack-up. For example, you have a strong racial preferencing agenda in place but fail to implement systems to stop illegal immigrants entering the country and taking jobs that would otherwise be given to South Africans. In fact, Mbeki seems to open his arms to offering entry to more. So where is the consistency if the agenda is to offer improved opportunities for the previous disadvantaged? I also noticed that white females * used* to be on that list but have fallen away too. How can that happen, one minute they are previously disadvantaged and then the goalposts have changed again.

Coming back to your input. I find it quite ironic that you are currently living in my country of birth ( away from your home country) whilst I have to accept that if I wish to live in your country I have to accept that I will be labelled a racialist because of my skin colour and the previous actions of people with whom I did not align myself.

I imagine that you never went to the UK on the basis of a permanent move? Therefore I would see your stay in the UK as gaining overseas experience, right?

My personal view is that if the world is in debt to the black race for slavery and apartheid then I feel that it is right that the black race are in debt to the countries that stood up to Hitler as his intentions were pretty obvious on ethnic cleansing.

It burns my ass to hear African leaders ( including Mugabe) hiss & spit whilst referring to colonials and on the next agenda of fund raising are quite happy to receive the hand-outs from the very same colonials.

My mother used to say “you can’t have your cake and eat it”. I too hope that South Africa does not miss the opportunity to recover from their current sad state. Our hope is in people like you that can look beyond the past and chose to look to the future and put aside our racial differences to build a great country for all.

I wish you all the success for the future wherever you chose that to be and hope my home country treats you well. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Re: African slavery - very alive ....
 

As I was saying about slavery.......

http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/...096805,00.html

At least this time they can’t blame apartheid or whites as it pretty much seems to be a part of the African rituals and there traditional beliefs * serving their gods *.

I mean seven year old girls, man where is the African human rights brigade now? Instead the German army has been *accused* of referring to African-Americans in a training exercise , of course this is alleged at this point in time but still made it on the BBC website.

I really can’t get to grips with the whole imbalance. The rest of the world let’s this happen, an estimated 35,000 slaves. This is CRAZY …

So who is going to pay these slavery debts to the families of these abused girls? Surely if other countries are in debt for the slave trade of 130 years ago then the same must apply to this one. Of course the real scary thing is that it is HAPPENING CURRENTLY whilst the other slavery was banned 130 years ago.

Africa, a law unto itself.