hello im planing on moving to SA and working over there so im wondering if theres any advice and what the best way is
do i need to get a job offer first or a visa ?

Hi
1st piece of advice...Think very carefully

2nd, you will not get a job, see herehttp://www.southafrica.info/doing_bu...erment/bee.htm

although you can start your own business. but then you will have to be careful of thishttp://http://www.labour.gov.za/basi...gramme_id=2670
The Guest House Route is popular

3rd think about your personal safety.....Cape Town is safer than Jo'berg, but not as safe as home counties of England, look herehttp://www.nationmaster.com/country/...rica/cri-crime
against
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/uk-united-kingdom/cri-crime

But it has a great lifestyle and scenery

This is an interesting article that will give you a general idea of cost of security and insurance. http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx...ght__national/

Did you really mean to post that, Tegwyn?

Aside from the dramatic words of Mr de Kock (his name, not my idea) "bigging up" the issues in order to "big up" his business, R745 a month including insurance for car and belongings is less than 3% of "his" earnings.
I think that's a pretty good deal - whever you are in the world.

I like the headline "The Cost of Feeling Safe" too - another indication that even the good old M&G can see that reality of crime is actually nowhere near as bad as the perception of crime, perhaps?

Unless prices have come down considerably in the last two-and a half years, those Costs seem low.
My Household , all risks and two cars were in excess of R1800 in 2004 in Midrand.
Armed response was about R300
6 or 8 strands of electric fence means nothing if it's on top of a precast wall or a Palisade Fence , they either break out the bottom panel or break the welds, so work on a 16 strand spread so thats probably 30k
Security gates such as Trellidor on a 4 bedroom house was around R30,000
to do the doors and windows.
All of the above might make you feel nice and safe, but you have to go out some time or other and although 6000 thinks it's all smoke and mirrors, Mbeki type perceptions, when it's touched you once,you keep on waiting for a repeat.
And if I get the " you need to put it behind you and get on with life" I would prefer it from someone who has had a gun put to their child/wife/own head and been close to the beast.

Of course I meant to post it 6000. It merely highlights that security needs are necessary and what the consumer can expect for a bare bones package. Not necessarily adequate but what the wallet may be able to handle. You can't exactly count on the SAP charging to the rescue either. You would have better luck with an armed response team. Let's not pretend that crime is not an issue in S.A. There are way to many people that have left the country because of that issue alone. As of last week, I can now safely report that there is not a single person I know in S.A. that has not been affected by crime. They must all be a very unlucky bunch.

I have never EVER said that crime is not an issue in SA. And yes, I have been a victim of crime here (as I was in the UK).

But sure - yes - security is something you need to budget for, such as, say, petrol is in the UK. My insurance alone comes to significantly more than R745pm though. And I don't have an Audi TT!

Enjoy your weekend people - sunny in Cape Town for Saturday and Sunday - first time in AGES!

6000???
Elsewhere on this forum, in various threads you have stated that Crime is a perception, smoke and mirrors, that you have a low statistical chance of being a victim of crime?
my reading of your posts has been that the levels of crime, in your opinion , are overblown and hyped by the media,
That it's nowhere near as bad as made out??

"Smoke and mirrors" refers to the tools of the stage magician in order to change what his audience perceives. Because yes, the perception of crime in SA is far worse than the actual reality of crime.

I have never suggested that SA does not have a crime problem - of course it does. But yes - it is nowhere near as bad as it's made out to be. Because newspapers need to be sold. Which bit of my stance is confusing you?

What is disappointing - and even offers futher evidence of this huge perception issue - is that another thread asking about jobs and visas has been twisted into one about crime. So when the next person comes on here and reads this - it's "another thread about crime" - which in fact, it shouldn't be.

You mean swooshes moving to SA thread? I don't agree. Certainly it mentions crime in some of the posts, but there has been useful info there on moving to SA as requested by OP. It is actually one of the more balanced threads with good and bad comments imho

To make this claim, you would have to know what the 'actual reality of crime' is. I don't think you know that.

Pablo

I didn't mean any other thread in particular. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing to discuss big issues like this, but keep it to a thread about crime. There are enough of them!
This particular thread asks for advice about visas. We then immediately proceed to talk about crime, security, electric fencing, rape, insurance and mirrors. (OK, that last one was me.)
No-one has actually mentioned a visa at all. That doesn't help the poster - (allbeit that s/he should have looked at similar threads before posting).

Of other threads on the "front page" of the SA forum, two positive stories about SA tourism have been turned into two negative threads about er... crime and one on Mandela was turned into a discussion about Hitler.

I'm more than happy to chat about crime if we really must all be so overwhelmingly negative, but let's keep it to threads about crime. Seems reasonable, no?


Ah - but to know that about me, you would have to know me. I don't think you do.
That has to be one of the most wishy-washy answers to a post I've ever heard. (Yours, not mine, obviously!)

6000,my perception of crime is fueled by what have experienced, by what i hear from friends of their personal experiences either to themselves or close family members.
And as I still have links there I try and stay abreast of what is happening in my previous neighbourhood of about 8000 homes.
I quote from the week ending 1st August report ,which fortunately was a quiet week, no murders and "only" one rape.

House Break-ins


House Break-ins were back to the usual high again. Gustav Preller Street was hit 3 times. Kyalami and Glen Austin were also hit hard again.

President Park: Republic Road (a victim was shot at, but the bullet missed)
Glen Austin: van Riebeck Road, Donovan Road, Pitzer Road (suspects fled when they were shot at)
Vorna Valley: Gustav Preller Street was hit 3 times. In one instance suspects fled in a black Golf
Kyalami: Maple Road, Compolino Road, Kwartel Street
Halfway Gardens: Invicta Street
Blue Hills: Karee Road
Noordwyk: Jacaranda Street, Edgar Street
Carlswald: Lyncon Road was hit at 19h15

House Robbery

House robberies were back to the average amount of 3 again this week.

Vorna Valley / Halfway Gardens

Pierneef Street was hit at 10h00. 2 males tied the domestic worker up.

Noordwyk
Lever Road was hit by 2 males at 05h00. They used a crowbar to gain access.

Carlswald
Walton Road was hit at 12h00. A man came posing as a swimming pool repair man. Once in, he asked for a glass of water and when he was alone he let the other 2 males in.


VEHICLE INCIDENTS







Theft of Motor Vehicle


Motor Vehicle theft was higher than the last few weeks.
A white BMW was taken from Midway Mews at 12h30
A blue BMW M3 was taken from Anton Hartman at 10h30
A navy BMW 320i was taken from Canart Street at 14h00
A gold Toyota Cressida was taken from De Winnaar Street at 12h15
A VW Jetta was taken at 23h00 from Langeveld Street
A white Ford Laser was taken from Boxer Road at 00h00
A black VW Golf Velocity was taken from Midrand Primary School at 13h30
A green Suzuki Sedan was taken from Midway Mews at 13h15
A Toyota Siyaya Taxi was taken at 08h10 from Halfway House Primary
A white Nissan Bakkie was taken from the Valley Tavern at 11h00
Theft out of Motor Vehicle

LAPTOPS, CASH & CELLPHONES are the only targets in stationary vehicles, as well as smash-'n-grabs.

Hijackings

Hijackings / Carjackings were extremely high this week. 2 situations took place with criminals posing as police officers. Remember that it is your right to always ask for identification from any police officer.
A VW Polo Playa was taken from Plane Street at 19h45. 2 males driving a Red Toyota Corolla posing as police officers pointed a gun at them and demanded to search the vehicle. They then drove off with it. A third suspect joined them.
A silver grey Opel Corsa Utility Bakkie was taken at Blougom Street at 19h45. The victim did see a suspicious male at her property. She drove around and when she returned she saw them entering a property 4 houses up. Once she had closed her gate, however, 2 suspects were there waiting for her.
A blue Honda Tazz was taken at the corner of President & Modderfontein Road. A silver Audi Station Wagon stopped in front of the victim and a light green Toyota Corolla stopped behind the victim. They were all armed. This took place at 17h35.
A silver Audi Avant was taken in Hampton Road at 17h00. 3 Coloured males in a dark green Toyota Conquest stopped in front of the victim. The suspects allowed the victim to remove a child and dog before taking the vehicle.
A truck was taken at 17h40 on the corner of R101 and 15th Road by men posing as Metro Police Officers.
A white Polo Classic 1400 was taken at Rudi Neitz Street at 11h15. The victim was busy at the intercom when a red Golf with 3 occupants stopped behind. They were all armed.
OTHER INCIDENTS



Rape

A rape took place in the construction site at the Sanridge Shopping Centre at 02h30. The victim was leaving a restuarant there when a man approached her.

Robbery with Firearm

A victim noticed that the ATM at Pennylane Centre had been tampered with. As the victim was about to leave, 3 armed males approached from behind and stole his cellphone, wallet etc. This took place at 19h15.

Business Break-ins & Robberies

Business robbery was not extremely high, with mainly cash and computers being taken. There are still a number of laptops being taken from people's desks in their offices.


So my "Perception" is that there is still a lot of danger in Midrand

Nonsense.

Look 6000, your original phrase was something like 'it's all smoke and mirrors this crime thing'.

This, from you, who is something of a self-publicist and not unfamiliar with words or the effect of words, was rightly read by others as a claim that there is no real crime problem.

Now, not for the first time, you back-track, with sophistical claims about what you meant by smoke and mirrors.

Second, there are two ways of referring to 'the reality' of crime. One of them is accurate statistics. Yet the stats are contradictory and widely distrusted.

The other way is one's own exposure to crime. For all I can try to imagine it, I can't properly know 'the reality' of having my daughter gang raped and left with hiv, or my grandmother tortured and then strung up on her farm.

So 'the reality' is twofold. It is stats (which are disputed) or it is personal experience, evidence from friends, and friends of friends, and so on.

So which 'reality' do you know, such that you can draw a dinstiction between the reality of crime and the perception of crime? How do you know that your perception of crime is not under-estimating the real threat? It seems to me you don't.

Pablo

Backtrack? No. How convenient that you take one phrase of mine, use it completely out of context and then throw it back at me.

How about all the other times I have stated that there is a crime problem here in SA? Did you miss them? Handy.
Not least on my own "self publicised" website. It's there - in black and white - right at the top!



"Distrusted" by some people on this forum - and by others out there who have some sort of agenda.

So - in your mind, there are "two realities". One of which relies upon statistical reporting, the other personal, touching even, highly emotionally charged and undeniably subjective.

So you choose the latter. Is that sensible? Perhaps those voices speak louder, but do they speak objectively? No.

So what of the third "reality". The rest of us living here with no problems, no personal issues (and therefore more objective views, surely?), maybe the odd unfortunate little bump into crime - as you may expect anywhere in the world. The majority of people living here fall into that category - quietly, happily living their lives, aware of crime, but without having their world dominated by it. And why should they turn and speak out? For them, this isn't a big issue in their lives.

You say that I mustn't base my perception on crime on my own experience or on "dodgy" stats but rather or the experiences of others? But then - doesn't it become their (highly inaccurate) perception of crime? Sadly, that's what we are doing - listening to the vocal minority while ignoring the silent masses.

I find it hard to believe that the perception of crime in this country could, in any way, be under-estimating the "real threat". Crime is a bad thing. Human nature has been - and will always be - to exaggerate the effects of bad things. That some people in this country led by their terror of being a victim of crime with no justification is something that the newspapers and media should be ashamed of.