Juggernaut

Many of todays white adults literaly grew up on the backs of these ladies. I dont doubt for one second that they loved them. These ladies did so much for them yet today any program designed to give them or their children a chance to pull themselves up by their bootstraps such as affirmative action or B.B.E.E is met with absolute scorn and contempt by those very boys and girls.

Why is it that many South Africans who immigrate cant afford the services of a maid/nanny in their adopted countries ? Simply because those maid/nanny's charge what their services are worth . In S.A being a maid is the only work these ladies could get .
They were cheap labour .Virtually every house in the suburbs have a "maids quarters". Dingy one room accomodation with a shower in one corner and a stove in the other.They lived there alone mostly with their husband and kids living in the townships. In most cases they would serve the family breakfast in the morning drop the kids off at school take care of the toddlers around the house while cleaning the house , doing the washing and ironing ,cook for the family .Then pick the kids up from school .Be at hand to make tea for mom and dad returning from work. Do the dishes and repeat for 7 days a week. then get a week or two off during christmas if it suited the family's schedule.

How much would that service cost in your neck of the woods Chango ? If they were paid what they were really worth they would have been easily able to pay for their kids' education and then some.

TigerOC

And you have hit the nail on the head. Everything in this world is driven by supply and demand. Take the UK there are a million people out of work (probably because they don't want to work anyway) whilst there are 20 million plus out of work in the RSA simply because the country is third world and doesn't have the work places to employ these people anyway.

So you don't buy all the cheap shoes and clothes made in the sweat shops of Asia? The same factories that have made thousands of staff in shoe and clothing factories in the RSA redundant because the labour costs in the RSA are too high.

Daxk

AA and BEE has certainly done wonders.
I see that there are 12 million Currently employed out of a population estimated at 45 Million.
Yes, a lot of people of all colours did and still abuse heir maids trust.
I know that Old Mutuals most popular Pension Policy was the maids one at R15 a month minimum.
And the Dinghy room with a shower and Toilet certainly could'nt compare to the Shacks,

Pablo

...Because these policies are both corrupting and counter-productive. You can pass as many laws as you like saying that a sow's ear is a silk purse, but that does not make it true.

Juggernaut

Are you trying to say that only about 27 percent of south africans are employed .Ridiculous .How bout sticking to the facts at least every now and then.
Then again I'll concede even the September 07 rate of 23% is not as low as we would like it to be but theres year on year improvement.

Proof that youve done little to improve the lot of those grey haired ladies that apparently served as your second mom even though you were responsible for her lack of options to start with.

The UK might have a unemployment rate of 5.2 percent with a 60mil or so population but as long as the kingdom existed all its citizens had access to the same opportunities. Not so in the case of S.A . So how can you compare the two?

How does the supply demand situation justify exploiting those old ladies whom many of you claim to care so much for.

Daxk

Juggernaut,13.2 Million employed is your Govts figures as reported in the Stats ZA 2008
Population estimate is 47,850 of which 3,880 M are older than 64 and 20,339M are younger than 15.
8,418 Million are employed in the Non Agricultural Industries.

There is no real Social Welfare structure to speak of which means that 13.2 Million are feeding 44 million people.,

As regards your personal attack,Margeret and Edwin worked for us from 1955 onwards,all retired on Retirement Policy pensions that were 10% of their Salaries paid by my parents
,Margeret and Edwins sons education and Varsity were paid from the same type of educational policies that paid for Mine and my siblings Uni days.
All had free Medical and worked 5 and a half day weeeks.
Their Salaries as well as my maids since have always been paid at least 50% more than the Going rate. and all have had 13th Cheques.

So add all that up and you will see why my family have managed to keep their maids as part of the family.

How much are you paying your maid?
How many have you had? and how long do they last?

Bijilo123

My maids, my wifes maids come and go as they get pregnant or move on and our country bemoans its presidents decision to educate girls and thus deprive the lebanese, white and wealthier locals of maids!

We pay 1000 dalasis and she lives with us in the house. The money is about25 pounds a month and it is a good local rate. We have a boy who just lives in his house and pays nothing - that is a charity and a driver who gets 800 per month but does not have to do anything.

Our gardiners are good and they get 1200 but are worth more.

We treat outr staff well and help them at the religious festivals and at the new year.

At one stage we had about 8 staff and we had to get them a cook FFS!

They are not part of our family and I don't really like them but I accept them and my wife has far more fondness for them - but she has to live with them all of the time.

Gambia will go the way of RSA in 20.

El_Chango

I clearly cannot afford permanent maid or nanny service; having seven children I can see how that might take some pressure off. But when we started having children, we resolved to do what we could to find a way to have my wife stay home and raise them ourselves. I understand folks living in a two income market having to rely on day care and maid service etc...

The legal services will probably run min+$3 to 5+ per hour, so around $9 starting. But all that changes if you are tapped into the illegal alien market; there is no social security taxe, workmans' comp insurance, liability etc... There, you may see the exploitation scenario you brought up. Actually, the illegal labor market, is interesting; of it's width and depth has clearly been an effective tool to hammer down low and middle class wages in America.

In any case, in my experience, maid and nanny service is more for the well to do here, or for those though struggling playing at "the well to do". At a certain time of day, in La Jolla, or Del Mar or Rancho Santa Fe...., you can see all the nannies pushing strollers filled with the progeny of the well heeled. Gardners there are also much in demand. And again, that's California, and the wages listed above may not apply.

These people need not worry about tuition for junior high and high school. If they have a mailing address in the state, they're good to go, for public school in any case. And if their children want to go to state universities, they pay in-state tuition, like I did, regardless of their legal status. Of course not so if you're german, swiss or french etc.., get out your wallet. I'm not going there tonight. Every once in a while there is a small bust on the mailing address deal for the benefit of some politician but not to worry, the public schools get their funding based on attendance so there is a strong incentive for them to attract children of both sides of the border.

Juggernaut

The latest StatsSA numbers for unemployment is 23,0% in September 2007 .

I dont have a maid .Dont need one yet .You're totally missing my point though. My point was that many of our current unemployed or maids or labourers need not have had such menial jobs were it not for the years of oppressive policies of your previous government .

Pablo

Why are there so many maids and "menial jobs" in India? People do what you call menial jobs all over the world. Do you suppose that everyone is capable of becoming what is called, in the current jargon, a "knowledge worker"? There is nothing inherently wrong with physical work.

Juggernaut

Theres nothing wrong with physical work .But as a trench digger would you not wish you had the same opportunities the boys who you mom looked after had. No special treatment .
The same level of public education, maybe access to the same universities same jobs .Who knows you might have still ended up as a trench digger but now you'll never know.

Pablo

Let me tell you something about digging, Juggernaut. You can go on digging and digging and digging into the past, and find reasons upon reasons to feel aggrieved and bitter, but in the end you will only put yourself right, and those around you right, by looking forward.

No one can answer your speculative questions, any more than you can answer whether South Africa would be a better place, or a worse place, for you now, if minority rule had not occurred. And the same applies to all the endless bleating crap about colonialism.

El_Chango

I did perhaps miss your point by answering a rhetorical question. What do you propose these unemployed people do? By reading your posts, you seem to attribute their station in life to oppression, past and present and the lack of efforts from government.

Are their efforts to feed their family less honorable than say an electrician, an attorney because of the servile nature of their work? No. Your mindset is probably more obstructive to their quality of life than you think. An oppressive and confiscatory tax and labor law structure, supported by "well meaning" voters like you is more to blame for current conditions than this amorphous colonial oppression that keeps resurfacing here.

The maid that worked in the house where I rented a room in college bought her first house in San Diego long before I left the renting market. (an illegal from Guadalajara, Mexico; strong and beautiful) Ambition and discipline Jugs. Presumably she wasn't wasting the wee hours of the morning on strong coffee and pointless political discussions...whatever.

You cannot keep beating up the producers in an economy and just hope they'll continue on producing and generating value and jobs. The mentality of sullen clock punchers who have no idea what a profit margin is must be impeached either through education or disenfranchisement at the ballot box. You cannot keep voting yourself goodies from the public treasury forever before the whole system breaks down. Get out of the way of progress so zu sagen.

Daxk

http://www.statssa.gov.za/publicatio...p0277&SCH=4173

"The March 2008 Quarterly Employment Statistics (QES) survey showed that the number of people employed in the formal non-agricultural business sector of the South African economy increased by about 8 000 persons (or +0,1%) from December 2007 (an estimated 8 410 000 employees) to March 2008 (an estimated 8 418 000 employees"

And the current Non-oppressive Government have'nt achieved raving successes either.
I refer specifically to SETAS , to Adult Literacy, to job creation.

We have all agreed that the policies were unfair,inhuman and oppressive.
In every other Country that I have visited, be they 1st,2nd or 3rd World, all have people doing menial jobs. (including myself at various stages when visiting those Countries)

Water finds it's own level, bud, admittedly more difficult for the Blacks in SA but just as difficult for poor whites and coloureds too.

A degree is only a yardstick that the graduate has a certain amount of intelligence,memory,discipline and ability of expression.
The ANC in exile did send some of its members to study further at Foreign University/Colleges/Technikons, how did they choose which ones did'nt go?

What State is the Education department in for the past 10 years?
if the excuse is that the teachers are untrained as a result of Apartheid, why did the "New" education department immediately close 150 Teachers training Colleges?
If the reason was budget, what savings could have been made of other wasteful excesses?
I agree we need Subs and a Navy(although they have only enough budget for 6 months worth of Diesel), I also agree we need an Army.
we do not need an Airforce.
Especially as we dont have trained personnel to A) Fly them and B) maintain them.
If I look at the semantic of the arms deal Figures, its scary

I actually think that the ANC are following in the NATS footsteps, keeping their voters uneducated so they will follow blindly.

Daxk

Addendum: Yes, have a maid here in Ireland, a very pretty Brazilian Girl who achieves in 5 hours on a Saturday what we cant get around too.
Thats 50 euro better spent than in a pub buying a few rounds for friends.
And she is incredibly grateful.