Pablo

I think perhaps you're right. Why, otherwise, have the questions been so completely vague?

Tegwyn

Mmmm, let's see if there is a response to this.

Juggernaut

Pablo, your opinion is just that, your opinion . Its been weighed and found to be a bit light .Now youre "dissapointed" that not everybody takes your word as law.
Arrogance.

We dont all feel about SA the way you do. Accept it.

Campbells telling people to kiss their backsides goodbye... laughable.
and What does Mandoza have to do with anything ...he is a kwaito performer .Celebrities are known for their antics why should that reflect on SA in any way ??

Pablo

Duh? Have I ever said my opinion is not my opinion?

By whom?

I don't know what you're talking about. Nor, I suspect, do you. I suppose you think that if you claim I have said things I have never said, some fool will believe it.


Which is why I keep urging people to find out for themselves when it is feasible to do so. But if people ask for opinions and advice, and then are given opinions and advice, what is so wrong with that? I note you have nothing to say on that score, apart from trying to close down what you regard as negative comment. Very ANC, that!

Redlippie

Must I say it again? South Africans for the most part, are an apathetic bunch, who have been brought up to respect authoritarianism, not authority, but authoritarianism. There is a big difference.

To accept whatever they are fed from the top, unquestionably, and to not think about it. It was like this during the time of the Nats, with the ja, meneer attitude, and it is like this now. Nothing much has changed.

I often use the rand dropping illustration, because it is so typical of the mentality. SAUK tells you the expats are talking the rand down, so it must be true.

The media in S.A. has been sycopanthic for many years, and is only lately beginning to show some backbone when it comes to the hard questions. One reason that the government has only in the last couple of years tried to shut it down....before the arms scandal, it had no reason to shut it down - they were doing their bidding, after all.

Now the fourth estate is rising up and actually asking the sorts of questions that should have been asked since 1994, and the corrupt idiots who pretend to run the country are worried about their cake, and trying to put a stop to freedom of the press so they can remain in power and keep everyone as mushrooms.

Redlippie

Because he's literate?

Tegwyn

No, because he's not following the tunnel visioned party line that all is "heppy heppy" with the world in spite of the obvious.

Juggernaut

Are we any more apathetic than any one of you expats were in the heyday of the NATs ?. Authoritarianism was good thing as long as it enriched you and safeguarded your interest. Literate Pablo certainly followed the partyline then didnt he.
Please do feel free to moan all you like about me playing the race card. Its a bitter pill to swallow ,I know.

We all know now some private banks caused the comotion. What did you attribute it to ?. disgruntled expats like you then said its a prime example of how the new ANC government is running the country into the ground.

You act as if the media is one monolithic unit. Unlike your buddies the NATs who actually set up a publishing house to print newspapers to advance its nationalist views .It still exists to this day ..Naspers...responsible for newspapers like Rapport ,Beeld ,die burger ,City Press etc. Online even news 24 . Multichoice and DSTV is theirs too. So you see your old nationalist buddies still control a major part of what we read, watch and listen to .
Show me one newspaper that has been shut down by the government .

.
Your so called fourth estate is doing what they have always done in post apartheid S.A, raising issues that’s newsworthy and in the public interest. How has that changed ?.

Smoke and mirrors thats all you offer no substance. Like your buddy Pablo, if ayone disagrees with your lofty opinion theyre "useful idiots" , "ANC cronies" , "illiterate" ," ostriches" ,"mushrooms" did I miss one?

If you feel so strongly about the current "regime" why did none of you stay to add your voice to the opposition and vote for your chosen parties? I'll tell you why ,because you guys always go where the going is good. Criticism ,I have no problem with but what are you doing to improve a situation ?

Pablo

...Er, no. Actually not.

The mere fact that you claim this, when you could not possibly know the truth of your claim, exposes the empty and dishonest rhetoric of your comments.

But, just like the ANC, you need to portray all critics of the government as racists, supporters of apartheid, Nazis, or whatever.

1066

Pablo, the more you answer him, the more he'll wind you up.

Tegwyn

Ah Jug, if all that can be thrown about is the race card, you've wasted your breathe. It's an old, stale, sad excuse for justification for unacceptable behaviour by your fellow citizens. It doesn't hold water any longer, but you do offer us a clear window into your thinking though.

Campbells

Actually, I value my life and want a future for my son, who is white.

We also want him to grow up understanding that life has serious DECISIONS to be made. For example, when a third world country that HAD a first world infrastructure is busy destroying it ( electricity as an example) it is time to count your chips and move on.

With regards to staying to be part of the voting –

Just like your uncle Bob’s tactics, voting

Redlippie

'Juggernaut. Answer me this question will you, and I'll reply to your post.


Why did the exiles criticize the country during the apartheid years? Why did they not stay and voice their opposition within the country and try to change the country from within?

Daxk

Juggernaut, I'm so glad you used Naspers as an example.

http://www.naspers.co.za/English/transformation.asp
I'll quote in part:
"We are also proud of the fact that 38% of our board already consists of people from previously disadvantaged communities, and 25% are women. At the same time we realise that our group will have to take transformation even further, and we hope to do so within the next few years."

Juggernaut, You would be seriously interested in which other BEE groups actually own a veeery large slice of NASPERS
I found it funny in a scary way that the first thing the ANC did was to buy the very Newspapers that shaped their old enemy's thoughts.
As they are attempting to do at present by bidding for the Sunday times.

Tony O'Reilly, the Irishman who owns Independent ,which includes IOL .co.za is an ANC sympathiser ,
They already own the SABC
But, back to Naspers: "Naspers started as a printer and publisher of newspapers and magazines in 1915. Later, book publishing operations were founded. Naspers’ print media operations developed of such an extent over the years that Naspers is now one of the leading media groups in Africa."
You really should read Ton Vosloo's report to the AGM on the 27th August this year.

amb

Thanks to the posts that are relevant, ie Tegwyn (no I am not 13 and running off with my first puppy love), and 1066 (of course they're generic, I've not yet been to SA).

I am very aware that the opinion I'm getting from my bf is not the true one, hence why I thought I'd ask some Brits living in SA. (Still not sure if there are any here!) I am doing all the research I feel like I can, including making the most of real life people with real life experiences, but as I say, while it's awesome to get that, I also don't feel like I'm being allowed to leave my mind open to actually visiting the country. I don't think I am allowed to think I might, maybe, perhaps, slightly like the place.

I'll leave you all to the politics talk, I guess there aren't any other topics to do that in.