Steve_

You don't "have to" even to a BP agent, because you're already in the US. They ask in the expedited removal zone (i.e. up to 100 miles from the border), but they have to form a "suspicion" and they can only help enforce immigration law, not other laws. So you can certainly show them your card to stop them forming a suspicion, but it's not required that you do.

This video is rather illustrative:

ScousePete

There have been many times when we have just been waved through, slowing down without actually stopping. However, one time each and every car was stopped. The first question out of the officer's mouth was, "Is everyone in the vehicle a USC?"

Now I'm sure it would have been the easiest thing in the world to say yes and we would have probably been waved on, but as my citizenship interview was a week away and one of the questions asked is "have you ever claimed to be a USC" it wasn't something I even considered.

He asked if I was a permanent resident and I said yes. He asked to see my GC. It took a while as I had put my wallet in my gf's handbag which had fallen down on the back seat, but he waited patiently until I found the bag, wallet and produced the card.

I guess I could have been ones of those wankers on the video and said you have no right to see my card and got into an argument, but my time is much more important to me than trying to prove I'm right and risk getting sent to a room for questioning.

Bink

That takes some balls.

hungryhorace

I'd do exactly the same if this happened in the UK. I wouldn't answer a single question other than to give my name and address.

Steve_

That's exactly what I thought but then I thought, let's see a slightly less white guy with a foreign-sounding accent try it.

dunroving

Yeah, especially the one who was giving that little girl such a hard time.

Steve_

She's a federal agent, not a little girl.

dunroving

She's a little girl and a federal agent.

Bink

Federal agent of diminutive stature?

dunroving

I could live with the amendments.

I found the video very interesting.

Setting aside whether in principle I would object to a "reasonable" request in similar circumstances (e.g., if a British policeman stopped me and asked for my DL, I can't see any reason why not; their job is hard enough without me busting their chops), I found myself thinking "What a jerk", "You plonker", "Do you really need to be such a pain?".

In some of the videos, I was thinking it about the officers, but in other videos I was thinking it about the drivers.

Steve_

The difference is that a policeman stopping you is able to arrest you for a wide variety of criminal offences - border patrol can only detain you if they have some reasonable suspicion you are illegally present, and even that is only a civil offence enforced by an immigration court. If they find drugs for example during one of those checks they have to call in the DEA.

Really the whole thing is silly, the amount the US spends on border protection is insane, it if were up to some people in Congress they'd have BP agents standing hand-in-hand along the border.

The video just illustrates how silly it has become. http://azcommunitypress.org/2013/07/...ilitarization/

Steve_

Sounds sexist, she's wearing the uniform (including the gun) and she's clearly had the training and that is her job.

dunroving

Well yes, the thing that is glaringly obvious is that the Border Patrol have absolutely no legal right to ask you to prove your citizenship or provide ID, or to detain you (which presumably also includes even stopping you?). I'm sure there is some legal term for the Catch-22 situation whereby they stop you, ask you if you are a US citizen, and by refusing to answer the question, you then provide reason for them to be suspicious. But from the responses of some of the drivers, that then becomes legally moot because they didn't have a reason to stop you in the first place. I suppose if you had a sign in your windscreen saying "I am a Mexican!" they'd have reason to ask you, but other than that, what constitutes due cause for "reasonable suspicion"?

The look on the faces of some of those officers was priceless when they eventually (have to) say, "Yes, you are free to proceed". As you say, the whole situation seems so silly.

dunroving

No, I just have been out of the US long enough to recognise when I am intentionally being sexist (which is never) and when I am simply referring to a person's appearance.

If it had been a male agent of diminutive stature who looked like he should be in a high school uniform, I'd be just as likely to have referred to "the little boy".

hungryhorace

They can't arrest you for refusing to show or not carrying a drivers licence you are aware? They CAN arrest you under PACE for the purposes of detaining you until they can verify your identity.