Lionda

We are not moving to Hondon but will be in Castalla which is about 40 mins away. We also used Medsea when we were looking at properties and found them to be most helpful. We would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone looking to buy in Spain. They took us for our NIE numbers and also took us to the bank to open our account - we are with the Halifax and wanted to open an account with the Halifax in Spain, one of their girls took us there and waited while we opened the account. When our eldest daughter moved over to Spain in January, Jaime, the Office Manager, was in Italy on business but phoned her to welcome her to Spain when he returned. We have been told that they will help us in any way we need after our move and they have always been available whenever I have contacted them either by e-mail or phone.

We move over on the 10th May and have Hondon on our list of places to visit.

bchapl

Hi Grape Eater,
Thanks for your detailed reply. We've taken your advice and have informed our solicitor that we will not complete until the electricity has been connected (and water) and we have also informed her about your advice re. a water and electricity meter.
Thanks so much for this, there's been so much going on (but you've done this, so you'll know that)!
Best regards,
bchapl

bchapl

Hi Grape Eater and others,
Just to let you know about the continuing saga of the electricity connection (or non-connection) to our house in Hondon. We have this morning been informed by our lawyer that the builder has told her that the electricity will not now be connected in time for our completion date. He suggests, once again, that we complete and he will lend us a generator which will run the pool etc. Our lawyer has advised us against completion (and rightly so - you wouldn't buy a house in the UK without electricity, why do so in Spain?)
Even if we were to be lent the generator until the cables have been laid, since we are not planning to live in the house just yet, who will be on site to refill the generator with diesel to ensure it continues working (so important re. the pool filter, as Grape Eater pointed out)!

We have already booked flights and a villa to stay in prior to completion (flights can be changed, but we have already changed the villa booking once, so this time we will lose the full cost of the villa booking, which has already been paid). In addition, we have already arranged removals (it may be possible to change this as no monies have yet changed hands, but, nevertheless, the removals company has scheduled us in for a particular date).

We have arranged for our friend, who is also a builder, to travel with us from the UK in order that he can complete some work on the house - he will now also have to alter his plans. We also have the problem of altering our own work commitments to yet another completion date! We had engaged a British electrician living nearby to complete further security works on the house - this will also now have to be changed!

We have now threatened the builder with the levying of penalties to compensate for the expenses which we have incurred and our lawyer is to meet with him tomorrow.
So, nothing is going to plan at the moment, but I'll keep you all informed and thanks for letting me let off some steam!!!! GRRR!

Best,
bchapl

twyntub

Hi bchapl,

Our agent (Medsea) wrote to us soon after we paid the deposit with a standard letter which included a warning NOT to arrange anything (flights / removals / etc) until they've had chance to check the completed house / snagging / paperwork over thoroughly. Something along the lines of "even if the builder gets in touch separately and tells you that the house is ready for completion, it isn't until we say so". One can only assume that it's standard practice to claim the house is complete when it isn't.

I would definately go with your lawyer on this one (which I guess you're doing). The moment you hand over the money, the electricity supply becomes YOUR problem. If you don't hand over the money, it remains your BUILDER's problem.

I know at college we've covered things like finding out the time of the next train and asking what's in the tapas, but I don't recall arranging an electricity cable to be laid being on the beginner's Spanish syllabus! Seriously - I know it's extra cost and a whole lot of hassle in the short term, but it could save you in the long run.

Do you feel under pressure to complete from the Agent as well as the builder?

Good luck!

GrapeEater

Good advice form MedSea and TwynTub... Our builder said ready in Jan - it wasn't we got in in May !!! - My advice is to not to be too keen to believe all they tell you, document eery thing, dates, times and use email so you get replies in email. We ended up renting for 9 weeks until we got our keys, more expense, I couldn't work, no proper phone, chasing around to solicitors, builders and agents -- a merry go round........ but ask me now if it was worth it !????? YES IT B****Y WEL WAS ! But try to minimise your mistakes and learn from others. :-)

bchapl

Hi everyone in Hondon (and those about to be),
This is an update on the continuing saga of our house purchase in Hondon.

We were due to complete on 3 May, having been assured by the builder that the electricity cables would be laid and the mains electricity connected. We had arranged flights, a stay in a nearby villa for the 3 nights prior to completion, the removals, and also we had enlisted the help of a builder friend of ours to fly out with us in order to complete some additional works on the house.

On Monday 23 April we had a call from our lawyer stating that there had been a problem and that the electricity would not be connected in time, having been assured by him that this would be completed on 25/26 April. However, the builder would supply a generator until such time as the electricity is connected. We had already refused the offer of a generator the last time the completion date of 12 April was altered (again due to non-connection of the electricity). The builder was obviously being pressurised by the estate agent to supply a generator in order that the completion go ahead (in fact, it was his idea)! Again we have refused to complete without electricity.

Our lawyer demanded that the builder and the agent attend a meeting in her office to explain the reason for yet another delay in the electricity connection. The builder and the agent, (not our estate agent, but a local agent who deals with our estate agent in the locating of properties for sale in the Hondon area - our estate agent did NOT attend the meeting), along with a representative from the town hall, explained that the electricity connection had not been rubber-stamped by the town hall. The town hall rep. argued that only half of the requisite paperwork had been submitted by the builder and the electricity company. He stated that only that morning he had inspected the house and had found all to be in order (licensed to live etc - we were relieved to hear this, as you can imagine!) and that he felt it would be only a short time until the paperwork is completed and, on this basis, it would be perfectly OK for us to have the generator in the short term. The town hall rep. estimated that it should take only one month until connection, whilst the Spanish agent argued that it may in fact take as long as 4 months until completion of the paperwork and the sanction for electricity connection. (Hope I'm not confusing you all here, but I do understand if you are confused - so were we)!

The builder, upon hearing that it may take 4 months for connection, and realising that, at a cost of Eur70 per day for hire of the generator (which is, we were informed a 'special', quiet generator) suddenly announced that he was only prepared to loan us the generator for a period of 1 month. Our lawyer then asked for a deposit from him as a back-up in case connection takes longer, at which point we would be without electricity altogether!!! The builder then went away to think about this.

In the meantime, and having been informed of the proceedings of the meeting by our lawyer, we, on her advice, decided that on no account are we prepared to proceed with the completion without electricity. Our lawyer informed us of another couple on whose behalf she had acted, who went ahead with completion without electricity (against her advice) and who were left without electricity for 18 months (again due to a 'paperwork problem'). She also informed us that when the builder heard of our decision, he would be likely be hopping mad and would threaten to pull out of the contract (which he did)! The spanish agent, however, spoke with him and persuaded him to stick to the contract (having also been informed by our lawyer that it is not so simple to withdraw from the contract as he might think and also that it will cost him a considerable amount of money to do so).

So, in essence, we are now awaiting electricity connection, at which time we will then arrange yet another completion date and we will not be booking any flights or removals arrangements until such time as we have mains electricity connection!!!!

Our estate agent telephoned us after my husband threatened to pull out of the deal altogether (this is the first contact we have had with him in over 2 months), but, since the meeting with the lawyer, builder etc., and since our refusal to complete, we have heard nothing from him - no telephone call, nada! Thank goodness we have a competent lawyer upon whom we can rely!!!

Many thanks to those of you who advised on this. It was nerve-wracking to stick to our guns as we didn't want to lose the house after all this palava!!! (You invest so much emotional energy in the house-buying process and, indeed, in the house itself, which really is the house of our dreams). Nevertheless, we are glad that we took our lawyer's (and your) advice as we sensed we were being subject to bully boy tactics by the estate agent and the builder. It is a delay, and it is a pain that we can't complete yet, but at least we're not staying in a house with the noise and fumes of a generator which will need constant topping up with diesel! We have done the right thing!

So, again, thanks for all the advice and when we finally do complete, we'll have you all round for a celebratory party!!! Watch this space!!!
All the very best (and thank God I found this forum),
bchapl

GrapeEater

Phew !! What a story - unfortunately I have heard worse. Again Agents and Builders doing anything to get there grubby hands on your money (the root of all eveil)

Well done for sticking to your guns and having an independent solicitor. A lesson to ALL that a good solicitor is worth the money - NEVER NEVER use the agent's recommendation even if it is 'free' - and the other lesson which I wished we'd done is not to book your flights, removals and buy things for the new build until you have a date for the Notary signing... ours was delayed 6 months (paper-work problems) AND eventually after having a GOD ALMIGHTY TAMTRUM in the builders office they let us move into the house even though we hadn't paid for it - as they were as sick as us at the 'paper-work' problems.

Paper-work problems are the part and parcel of Spanish Life it would seem and eventually you learn to 'cope' and even laugh at !!! ;-)

Good Luck and I hope it is not too long before you get in !

... and get as much in writing/ emails as possible -

bchapl

Hi Everyone,
Thought I'd update you all on the 'House in Hondon' saga.

As you know, we've been waiting for the electricity to be connected, having had two 'final' completion dates in April and May. We have stuck to our guns re. refusal of the offer from the builder of a generator until such time as the electricity is connected. We went over in May (simply because we'd already booked flights and a villa to stay in prior to completion and couldn't get our money back), saw the house (which still needs finishing) and met with the builder. Little did he know that we had, in fact, been staying in a villa directly opposite the house, so were able to watch any building work being done (of which there wasn't any)! On the date we were due to meet with the builder, we suddenly, just two hours prior to our meet, saw lots of activity; trucks pulling up and workmen 'working' on the house!!! :curse:

The builder said that, 'fingers crossed', the electricity would be connected by end of June. We have just heard from our lawyer that, according to information received by her, the electricity will now be connected either end of July or beginning of August! She warned us, however, not to book flights/removals etc until we have firm confirmation that the electricity is up and running (yes, indeed, we won't be making that mistake again)!

To make matters worse, my Mum, who had been ill with lung cancer, took a turn for the worse and I received a call asking me to get back home asap (we'd only left the UK two days before and she had seemed fine). Having met with the builder and having managed to get on a flight immediately after the meet, we arrived back in the UK, only to discover that Mum had died about an hour before we landed. It never rains but it pours!!!

So, feeling a little down about life in general, we now realise that by August it will be almost one year since we first viewed the property!!! We had hoped to be renting it out by now in order to cover the mortgage. We had also hoped that we would be able to holiday this summer in the house. As it is, it seems we've had to put everything (including our annual holiday, which we both sorely need) on hold until such time as the electricity is connected. We feel as if we're living in some kind of limbo.

Has anyone else been in this situation? All our money is over in our Spanish bank account, just waiting to be transferred upon completion; we suspect (forgive us for being a little pessimistic here) that we will get yet another communique from the builder at the end of July that the electricity connection will be delayed yet again. In fact, we are both suspecting that this saga will drag on until autumn and that we'll be damn lucky to get in by Xmas!!! (By the way, if it does drag on until autumn, I won't be able to get time off work - at least until late December).

Are we being too pessimistic and is there anything we can do to speed up the process?

The only good thing about this is that, since we have yet to complete, we aren't paying the mortgage - the builder is!

Are there any penalties which we could levy on the builder for non-completion and, if we decide to pull out (and at times we are sorely tempted), are we still liable to pay the builder double the holding deposit of Eur. 6000? Surely there must be something we can do to speed up this process, considering we haven't done anything wrong and have acted in good faith at all times? Also, if we pull out, how easy will it be to get our monies back (the 10%, which works out at the not inconsiderable sum of Eur. 38,000)? What if the builder has used this money to fund another building (and since little has been done on our house, we suspect this might be the case)? In fact, at the end of our meeting with the builder, two British people (we suspect Estate Agents) interrupted our meeting, very rudely ignoring us completely, and chatted with the builder, effectively ending our meeting with him! From my limited knowledge of Spanish (and they were careful to speak only in Spanish, albeit with Northern UK accents), I gleaned that they were discussing the marketing of other houses which he has either built or is about to! How damn rude!!! We were so astonished that we shouted Adios to the builder and left the site!!!

As said, since then we have had the further communique re. yet another delay. It seems to us that our money has been used by the builder to fund further projects (he doesn't seem unduly worried re. the non-completion). We wonder whether this is standard builders' pratice!!!
Any advice will be gratefully received. Can anyone help?
Thanks in advance and hope all's well with everyone. (The weather in the UK is appalling, by the way, but you probably guessed that anyway)!
Best,
bchapl.

Rosemary

So sorry to hear that you have the added stress of coping with your bereavement. With all that is happening with your house do not forget to allow yourself the time to grieve for your loss. Many people think that they are coping or dealing with their loss but do not acknowledge that in actual fact they are glossing over how they are feeling. Talking to those close to you is an important factor. We tend to assume that everyone is feeling the same in a family and that everyone will know how you feel but this is impossible if you do not talk. Also accept that people grieve in different ways, some like to let their feelings out in private whilst others like to have someone around to comfort them and this can cause problems with relationships.

Take care.

Rosemary

twyntub

Sorry to hear about your Mum.

Yes, we're experiencing delays with our builder. We paid the deposit back in February with a promise that the house would be ready bar the paperwork by September. Have just returned from a flying visit last week (gave the builder 1 week's notice that we were coming, however).

The plan was that we would have an accompanied viewing of the "property" AFTER our meeting with the builder - however I decided to go and view prior to the meeting so that any issues with progress could be discussed right away.

Well, on the way to our inspection my wife pointed out a ruin on the hillside and joked "we'll they're getting on with the house, dear". We now wish our house was as advanced as that ruin - it's still barely a hole in the ground and no sign of anyone doing any work!

The meeting with the builder was interesting.

Me: So, how's the build going?

Builder: Well, we've had to slow the build down - we can't really go any further as we've been awaiting information from you.

Me: Sorry?

Builder: Well, you said you wanted extra sockets in bedroom 4 which was going to be your office, but you haven't told us how many or where you want them. We can't finish the house without that information.

Me: Err, that would be okay, but there isn't an office yet. There isn't even a house. There aren't any walls. There isn't even a floor. In fact, there is just a hole in the ground where the foundations will go. Eventually.

Builder: No, the house is more advanced than that.

At which point I show the digital camera shot of the "hole" taken 1 hour prior.

Builder: I'll phone my boss.

(phones boss).

Builder: "Sorry, my mistake, it'll definately be finished in OCTOBER now!"

...????

Anyway, we're now looking to rent in Hondon from September (any offers anyone?) until we move in - hopefully before Christmas...

***
WANTED: Accommodation convenient for Hondon primary (Nuestra Senora de las Nieves) i.e. < 10 km preferred, for professional married couple + two children + well behaved dog and cat. From September 2007 for 3 months min.
***

Twyntub

bchapl

Many thanks, Rosemary, for your kind words, and also Twyntub. Some days I feel that I'm coping better than on other days, but I am at least talking with others about Mum, so I'm aiming not to gloss over things.

I think that the problems with the house are probably making things worse, although, from Twyntub's experiences, it seems we aren't faring as badly as some! So sorry to hear of your problems, Twyntub. At least our house is not a shell (which makes it all the more annoying, to be frank, as it's only a matter of the electricity connection, most of the other work has been done).

I do hope that you're in by October, and what a poor excuse about the sockets (have they not heard of email, and what about the good old fashioned telephone)? Is your builder a private builder or are you on the urbanization in Hondon (can't remember the name of it)? Has your lawyer suggested any methods of speeding things up? Our lawyer gets in touch regularly with the builder's lawyer to find out how things are going. The only problem is that she (like most) has no power over the Town Hall! It appears that the problems reside with paperwork and with the electricity company. However, as stated in the previous mail, it would also seem that the builder is in no particular hurry to complete the final touches to the house until the electricity is connected (at which time we suspect he will rush things through).

So, thanks to both of you for your kind thoughts and I do hope that life's good for you both. One of these days we'll all get together over a vat or two of wine and laugh fondly at the trials and tribulations of buying in Spain!
Take care, both,
bchapl

GrapeEater

Hi TywnTub,
I may know someone with a rental in the Hondon Area. If you reply on the Private Message System - I can discuss better (as it's not really part of this thread).

Deb B

I have lived in Hondon de las Nieves for 3 years and love it. Yes the winters can be cold and I was here for the bad one without any heating but the daytime temperatures can be very warm , its just when the sun goes down its like someone has left the fridge door open. Regards buying property here you have to be very careful as there are alot of illegal builds here and agents charging ridiculous commissions. Some of the big companies who do the inspection trips have started selling resales over here. Please be warned that they are charging up to 18% commissions and the same properties can be bought for much less from local agents who will also know more about its legal status and local town hall plans so that you don't buy anything that is due to have a new road running through it etc. for example I recently saw an advert in a magazine for a house not far from me, with the large company it is on for 312,000 and in a local agents window for 273,000. The difference ( bearing in mind you still have the taxes to pay ) is all negative equity that you will never get back. Be warned. If you want the local agents details send me a pm and I can forward them to you.
Deb B

twyntub

Hi GrapeEater, aquí tiene...

aspeangel

If you are still interested in a place to rent take a look on www.inmohogar.net, they have a house for rent in Hondon de las Nieves which has only just come onto their books.
Happy hunting!!