Rooftile

My wife and I visit Portugal frequently from the UK. We are both UK nationals/residents and I have a EU passport too. Our travels plans for later this year will mean she is a few days over the 90/180 day rule. As Spain has n times more Brits visiting thought there is a greater knowledge base here for EU border control experiences. Here is my situation if anyone can feedback I’d be very grateful.

As a UK national, my wife is a 3rd country person and I have a reply from the EU Direct that says as long as she travels with me the 90/180 day rule no longer applies for her. However when I asked recently at the Border Control in Faro airport, they said she is still bound by the rule. I am escalating this as best I can but in the meantime I am keen to know if Brits coming to Spain with the same situation, UK passport holder with EU spouse, what do the Spanish Border Control say re the 90/180 day rule? Do they exempt it for the 3rd country spouse?….do they stamp their passport too? Many thanks.

tebo53

What do you mean by an EU passport? Are you referring to the UK passport issued when the UK were in the EU?

Steve

Barriej

Nope.... Because in Spanish law (not the EU) staying longer than 90 days forces you to register as a legal resident of Spain...

Its stated quite clearly here.
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/spa...m%20in%20Spain.


You (as an EU country holding citizen) and you wife can stay for more than 90 days BUT you will have to then become a Spanish resident and your partner can then apply for a visa to stay with you...
There has never been a ruling, law etc that says you can stay as long as you like if you have an EU country passport. Its 90 days no matter what passport you hold..
You are technically here illegally by overstaying even if you have an EU country passport..

The fact that many do and shed loads of Brits did before B day doesn't matter.
The law states you must apply for residency once the 90 days is up, the fact of no hard borders makes it hard to Police but that just shows how stupid the law is..

This is something that gets my goat, we have French, Dutch and German couples in the village who have been here for years, are non residents and have no desire to be (usually because its better financially for them) and they think the FOM act allows them to just move country and stay without consequence for however long they wish.
When I point out that its wrong all I get is the 'shouldn't have voted for Brexit then' comment...

Anyway the law here is rubbish, you wont even get questioned (I know this for a fact as I personally know a UK couple with UK passports who stayed for 170 days, went back to the UK for the NLV appointment, came back here two days later and on the 1st July travelled back to get the Visa in their passports and then back here yesterday.) Nothing was mentioned as they left Alicante, at the Consulate, or on their return.... There are others I know of as well....
Until the ETIAS thing starts, its all down to the border guard on the day and they dont care. My son was here a couple of weeks ago and his passport was not stamped when arriving (nor were any of the others in the huge queue) nor when he left to go back to the UK...he did ask but was just waved through....

Rant over the above is my 2c. I wouldn't overstay but what you do is your bit of string...
Remember once people start ignoring the little rules, after a while the bigger ones become easier to break.

Rooftile

Thanks. But I am only interested in the 90/180 day rule….not the after 90 day rule you have to register. The latter is for EU citizens in the Freedom of Movement rule who travel to another EU country, they have a max of 90 days in one stay. After that time, they can still stay but have to register.

It’s the Schengen rule ( for the tourist ) that in last 180 days, the 3rd country national ie my wife who only has a UK passport ( I have a UK and a second EU country passport) will be over the 90 days later this year.

My query is has anyone in our position had dealings with Spanish Border Control in the exemption of the 90/180 day rule for the 3rd country national when accompanied by their EU national spouse? What was their experience?

missile

"a few days over" Is it worth the risk / hassle? Why not change your plans and avoid the issue?

DLC

You should travel on your EU passport and bring your marriage certificate with you (better if it's stamped with the Hague Apostille but I don't think it's essential) and explain you're married and then your wife can travel with you. That's the 90/180 rule taken care of.

As for the 90 day rule, if you really wanted to follow it to the letter you could pop over the border between Spain and Portugal (or France or Andorra...) and start a new 90 day countdown in Portugal. Then once in Spain again you start a new 90 day countdown in Spain. Remember to keep a receipt for the newspaper!

Rooftile

Thanks DLC. Given the presentation of wedding certificate takes care of the 90/180 rule as you say, will the Border official still require my wife’s UK passport stamped ie can my wife insist for it not to be stamped? Also why would they want it to be stamped as she has FOM with me?

snikpoh

It's actually for anyone from anywhere in the world not just EU citizens!

Casa Santo Estevo

Does this help? It is an EU website and explains the travel docs you need.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...y/index_en.htm

bobd22

I would guess that if the border official chooses to stamp your wifes passport then they will if she wishes to enter, that has even happened to some who are resident. I guess your concern is that if passport is stamped then there is a formal arrival date documented in your wifes passport and as you wish to stay over the 90 day limit that could be an issue. You have an EU and British passport but dont say whether the EU passport is a Schengen country passport. If it isnt then reality of rules are as all Brits were before brexit, your EU passport wont be stamped but your wifes could be. If thats the issue dont overstay or it could cause an issue for your wife, or visit Spain for a few days and re set the 90 days. Of course it could be no stamp in your wifes passport and no one notices you have gone over 90 days without registering in Portugal. Thats a chance you have to decide on but given lots of Brits pre brexit never got found out I suppose its up to to decide the risk. Even if they stamp your wifes passport it may go un noticed on return but may not.

Barriej

Ive read this before and you have to be very careful of the wording.
For an EU passport holder to bring family members with them, they (the EU resident) must have a residence card for the country they came from or the one in which they now reside.

Having an Irish passport (or others) but being a British resident, does not allow you to stay in any other EU country or bring non Eu family members in for more than 90 days as you dont have an EU residence card (TIE) or the French one, German, Italian etc...

If you the EU passport holder had full Irish residency (including tax residency) then yes you can apply the staying more than 90 days FOM rule..
BUT you would still by Spanish law (if coming here) need to register as a Spanish resident after 90 days...

My view is dont chance it, just because loads of others get away with it (I know lots of plastic Irish who are now staying here for months on end and popping back to the Uk a couple of times a year) Its not legal but there is no stopping them (well there is but no body actually cares) when they should.

This is one of the many little loop holes plaguing the Eu and its toothless directives..

The above is my view of the rules, it may not be correct but there doesn't seem to be any clear cut information out there.

dave7777

Good luck getting an appointment within 90 days to get the EU resident card in Spain , took me weeks of trying,

DLC

Looking at the Schengen border handbook, page 75 section 6.2, it's not listed in the exceptions for passport stamping so she should get a stamp. If the date stamps could be misinterpreted later on if she's travelling alone at a later date I suppose she'll also need to bring her marriage certificate and a copy of your EU passport to help explain she was travelling with you.

Also, I may have been a bit hasty because things also depend on whether your wife's nationality requires her to get a visa to visit the EU or not.

DLC

It's just for EU citizens. There's a nice example here in the Schengen handbook page 21.

So it's perfectly fine for a non-EU partner to accompany the EU partner and not be subject to 90/180 day rule.

It's also fine for the EU partner to spend a maximum of 3 months in each EU country. After that what happens depends on the country - some require registering like Spain, some don't. In any case that can be legitimately got around by crossing the border to another EU country and resetting the 90 day clock. The border guard must really have got out of bed the wrong side if he started asking an couple or a family leaving the Schengen zone to prove which countries they've been in and for how long.

bobd22

My understanding backed up by this link is passport or official identity/residence card of your eu country of residence.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...n/index_en.htm

I'm not sure all EU countries issue cards? Does Ireland certainly when UK was in the EU all that was required was passport as UK doesn't have ID or residency cards for it's citizens.
Point re stamping the wife's passport? I don't disagree that it shouldn't be stamped but if the border official insists on stamping it then it will be stamped. You may appeal that later I guess and have it annulled but arguing at entry point I doubt will get anywhere quickly. If it has been stamped and you wish to argue that you left and came back in without stamps? They may accept that but I guess would want some proof. Bottom line is don't overstay or if you do and are caught out then what will be will be.