More Goans heading for the UK !
Jul 6th 2010 | 11:15 am
#76
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,199
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
If you read Save Goa Poll - you can see that Lewis Betworth is collating all the members stories, in confidence, for the BHI. You should also read the BHI thread so you will understand what members are doing to help themselves. We have had a few meetings with the BHI, and although they are trying to sort out our problems they do not understand the complexities of the property situation and dealing with the Goan Authorities. Members have written to our Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary, Vaz etc, but nobody seems to be doing anything.
Looking at the situation from your point of view, you say people have purchased as it is cheaper to live in Goa - but they could equally have gone to another country.
We purchased 8 years ago (on a five year x visa, have deeds registered, now under investigation) after holidaying in Goa for 15 years. We purchased as we loved the people, so that we could spend our golden years in the country we loved escaping from the UK winter for health reasons. Our property was purchased primarily so that our children and grandchildren could enjoy the country we love, not for financial gain.
Looking at the situation from your point of view, you say people have purchased as it is cheaper to live in Goa - but they could equally have gone to another country.
We purchased 8 years ago (on a five year x visa, have deeds registered, now under investigation) after holidaying in Goa for 15 years. We purchased as we loved the people, so that we could spend our golden years in the country we loved escaping from the UK winter for health reasons. Our property was purchased primarily so that our children and grandchildren could enjoy the country we love, not for financial gain.
I think some of my comments may have been misunderstood, I have no problem with anyone coming to the UK to work and pay their own way. What I do have a problem with is anyone who does not work and pay their way and expects to claim benefits paid for out of the taxes paid by those of us who have worked hard. It does not matter what race, colour or creed they are, British included. If Goans can get Portugees passports and come to the UK that is fine providing they pay their way but unless they have the qualifications which will help them to get a good job then they are either going to have to do unskilled work which does not pay well or claim benefits to which they have not contributed.
Jul 6th 2010 | 12:23 pm
#77
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,680
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
I am suprised to see the kind of posts on this link -
to begin with let me say that i am goan and have lived in britain - not on portuguese documents but having studied (in indiaa & UK) and being retained on legitimate highly skilled work there. i agree that this may be an exception but i think its strange to see posts here that believe all goans would go to the uk to work as taxidrivers and use their gardens as toilets.
secondly i now work in mumbai - my income, savings, lifestle, return on investments and health care is much better than i (or many of you) could have expected to have in europe.
despite being goan i have strongly believed that that british in goa have only added value to society - not for your money or your white arse - but adding to cultural diversity of the place and bringing in new ideas / perspectives.
i have strongly believed that goa is a lot better of having the british / europeans some in than indians from other parts of the country as they maintain heritage structure when they buy them; they mostly buy to live; and normally stay away from the under-hand activity that most north indians are so reputed for.
however it is also for you to realise that india is no more under the rule of your country and it is the legitimate right of the fedral government to frame immigration /investment policy as it finds suitable and for the state govt to implement this. this is not a policy only against the BRITISH and it applys to all non-indian nationals.
THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT does this all the time - pls do a read on how it started a 'FRESH TALENT INITIATIVE' & a HSMP and keeps changin the rules for this based on what is felt necessry for the economy ... many students have invested a lot of money only to find themselves high-&-dry !!! including some friends of mine- i still maintain in this case IT IS THE RIGHT of the BRITISH GOVERNMENT to frame policy to suit the local populace.
in this case the justification for disallowing purchase of propoerty bu non-indians was that it is getting unaffordable for local people. I DONT AGREE with this arguement - AND IM SURE MOST GOANS DONT - its the north indian money / speculative investment that has resulted in the price spike. but that is politics
ALSO some posts have mentioned how by brining in money / buying real estate the british have contributed to the economy - PLEASE LET ME REMIND YOU THAT NONE OF YOU DID OUT OF CHARITY TO THE GOAN PEOPLE. you did it because it was CHEAP; A GOOD INVESTMENT AND YOU HAD A GOOD HOLIDAY / RETIREMENT at a fraction of what it would cost you in europe. so dont be whining as if you did a favour and have been wronged. you all did it in your individual selfish interest.
finally for those of you who are unaware of history 19th december 1961 is liberation day in goa / india. however international documentation of history categorised it as the CONQUER of GOA by INDIA. as taking indian nationality (and therefore forfeiting portuguese nationality) was mandatory and possibly involuntary ; Goan's born in portuguese GOA (and therefore born in portugal) HAVE THE LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO PORTUGUESE CITIZENSHIP. pls note that unlike the british the portuguese didnt think they were superior and treated territories they colonised as a part of their country - which inlcluded elected representation in LISBON.
the subsequent movement of goans on a portuguese passport to britain is ientirely FULLY LEGITIMATE ; and if it upsets you people so much why dont you have your government quit the EU as nigel farrell and his UKIP has long been campaining for. But you know that BRITAIN WILL BE QUITE A non-entity in todays world without the collective clout of the EU............ or IS IT JUST JEALOUSY
throughout my time in the UK i have had only good experiences. I AM NOW BEGGINING TO WONDER WAS IT ONLY BECAUSE I WAS IN SCOTLAND?? somone mentioned that all the staff in a scottish hotel were scots and was wondering why it isnt so in england - THATS BECUASE MOST ENGLISH JUST DONT WANT TO WORK - they just WANT TO sit and WHINE ABOUT THE ECONOMY, THE WEATHER , the lack of a job and how the whole world has wronged them.
....... as for the sarpanch guy - if he is in britain it means he has taken the portuguese passport and surrendered his indian one.... he will now be treat just like any british person (by law at least) untill he has an OCI after which he still cant buy any agricultural land AND MOST DEFINITELY CANT HOLD PUBLIC OFFICE so wont be a sarpanch ever again
goans & british have long shared a very good and meaning full understanding. I understand that some british in goa have been wronged. but you mustn't hold it against ALL GOANS. there are real estate & political lobbies with strong vested interests and vote banks - as in any country. even i have lost all hope for goa. but the posts on this link sound like a bunch of people who are frustrated and venting their anger on ALL GOAN and it reminds me a some indians who go abroad ; fail to find work and come back and blame it on "RACISM" when in fact they are LOOSERS.
a indian acquaintance was once attacked in the uk. when i enquired it turned out he had been asking for it being in a crime prone area ; late in the night in questionable company. and it proved my belief that if you stay away from trouble - trouble often stays away from you. MANY (not all) INTERNATIONAL BUYERS IN THE GOA PROPERTY MARKEY HAVE SUFFERED BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES TRIED TO CIRCUMVENT THE RULES AND DID SO ASSOCIATING WITH THE SCUM OF GOAN SOCIETY - and it is these people defining their opinion of goans. have you not heard of " mAY THE BUYER BEWARE?"
-------- i hope you all would take this defence in the good spirit in which i offer it ------ only to TRY and set some things straight - ITS NOT THAT GOAND DONT LIKE THE BRITISH - they are a soft target for politicians with vested interests and puppets in the control of a real estate lobbY that lack any ethics or values.
the abusive langugage against ALL goans in quite unwarranted - it just reflects a BIGGOTED MINDSET when you think that all goans dont know to use the toilet. if that were the case why did any of you british people choose to come to goa at all in the first place - did you want to learn to live like this - shtting and pissing in the garden?
TAKE THEM ON - TAKE THEM TO COURT - FIGHT IT OUT AS ANY INDIAN CITIZEN WOULD HAVE TO. if you are in the right - justice will come even if it takes time.
All nationalities are welcomed to live on RENTALS WHICH anycase makes more sense given that rentals are so CHEAP in goa compared to the price of purchase.
AND IF ITS TOO FRUSTRATING FOR YOU TO TAKE - you have the option to do what i have done - LEAVE GOA - go elsewhere in India - let me assure you it wont be long before you are back in praise of the same system you have been abusing.
FINALLY I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL - but one of the reasons i decided to join this forum was that im willing to do my 2 bits to help those of you facing hurdles with life in goa. its a limited perspective that i have to offer - but its available for those who are interested.
CHEERS!
to begin with let me say that i am goan and have lived in britain - not on portuguese documents but having studied (in indiaa & UK) and being retained on legitimate highly skilled work there. i agree that this may be an exception but i think its strange to see posts here that believe all goans would go to the uk to work as taxidrivers and use their gardens as toilets.
secondly i now work in mumbai - my income, savings, lifestle, return on investments and health care is much better than i (or many of you) could have expected to have in europe.
despite being goan i have strongly believed that that british in goa have only added value to society - not for your money or your white arse - but adding to cultural diversity of the place and bringing in new ideas / perspectives.
i have strongly believed that goa is a lot better of having the british / europeans some in than indians from other parts of the country as they maintain heritage structure when they buy them; they mostly buy to live; and normally stay away from the under-hand activity that most north indians are so reputed for.
however it is also for you to realise that india is no more under the rule of your country and it is the legitimate right of the fedral government to frame immigration /investment policy as it finds suitable and for the state govt to implement this. this is not a policy only against the BRITISH and it applys to all non-indian nationals.
THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT does this all the time - pls do a read on how it started a 'FRESH TALENT INITIATIVE' & a HSMP and keeps changin the rules for this based on what is felt necessry for the economy ... many students have invested a lot of money only to find themselves high-&-dry !!! including some friends of mine- i still maintain in this case IT IS THE RIGHT of the BRITISH GOVERNMENT to frame policy to suit the local populace.
in this case the justification for disallowing purchase of propoerty bu non-indians was that it is getting unaffordable for local people. I DONT AGREE with this arguement - AND IM SURE MOST GOANS DONT - its the north indian money / speculative investment that has resulted in the price spike. but that is politics
ALSO some posts have mentioned how by brining in money / buying real estate the british have contributed to the economy - PLEASE LET ME REMIND YOU THAT NONE OF YOU DID OUT OF CHARITY TO THE GOAN PEOPLE. you did it because it was CHEAP; A GOOD INVESTMENT AND YOU HAD A GOOD HOLIDAY / RETIREMENT at a fraction of what it would cost you in europe. so dont be whining as if you did a favour and have been wronged. you all did it in your individual selfish interest.
finally for those of you who are unaware of history 19th december 1961 is liberation day in goa / india. however international documentation of history categorised it as the CONQUER of GOA by INDIA. as taking indian nationality (and therefore forfeiting portuguese nationality) was mandatory and possibly involuntary ; Goan's born in portuguese GOA (and therefore born in portugal) HAVE THE LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO PORTUGUESE CITIZENSHIP. pls note that unlike the british the portuguese didnt think they were superior and treated territories they colonised as a part of their country - which inlcluded elected representation in LISBON.
the subsequent movement of goans on a portuguese passport to britain is ientirely FULLY LEGITIMATE ; and if it upsets you people so much why dont you have your government quit the EU as nigel farrell and his UKIP has long been campaining for. But you know that BRITAIN WILL BE QUITE A non-entity in todays world without the collective clout of the EU............ or IS IT JUST JEALOUSY
throughout my time in the UK i have had only good experiences. I AM NOW BEGGINING TO WONDER WAS IT ONLY BECAUSE I WAS IN SCOTLAND?? somone mentioned that all the staff in a scottish hotel were scots and was wondering why it isnt so in england - THATS BECUASE MOST ENGLISH JUST DONT WANT TO WORK - they just WANT TO sit and WHINE ABOUT THE ECONOMY, THE WEATHER , the lack of a job and how the whole world has wronged them.
....... as for the sarpanch guy - if he is in britain it means he has taken the portuguese passport and surrendered his indian one.... he will now be treat just like any british person (by law at least) untill he has an OCI after which he still cant buy any agricultural land AND MOST DEFINITELY CANT HOLD PUBLIC OFFICE so wont be a sarpanch ever again
goans & british have long shared a very good and meaning full understanding. I understand that some british in goa have been wronged. but you mustn't hold it against ALL GOANS. there are real estate & political lobbies with strong vested interests and vote banks - as in any country. even i have lost all hope for goa. but the posts on this link sound like a bunch of people who are frustrated and venting their anger on ALL GOAN and it reminds me a some indians who go abroad ; fail to find work and come back and blame it on "RACISM" when in fact they are LOOSERS.
a indian acquaintance was once attacked in the uk. when i enquired it turned out he had been asking for it being in a crime prone area ; late in the night in questionable company. and it proved my belief that if you stay away from trouble - trouble often stays away from you. MANY (not all) INTERNATIONAL BUYERS IN THE GOA PROPERTY MARKEY HAVE SUFFERED BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES TRIED TO CIRCUMVENT THE RULES AND DID SO ASSOCIATING WITH THE SCUM OF GOAN SOCIETY - and it is these people defining their opinion of goans. have you not heard of " mAY THE BUYER BEWARE?"
-------- i hope you all would take this defence in the good spirit in which i offer it ------ only to TRY and set some things straight - ITS NOT THAT GOAND DONT LIKE THE BRITISH - they are a soft target for politicians with vested interests and puppets in the control of a real estate lobbY that lack any ethics or values.
the abusive langugage against ALL goans in quite unwarranted - it just reflects a BIGGOTED MINDSET when you think that all goans dont know to use the toilet. if that were the case why did any of you british people choose to come to goa at all in the first place - did you want to learn to live like this - shtting and pissing in the garden?
TAKE THEM ON - TAKE THEM TO COURT - FIGHT IT OUT AS ANY INDIAN CITIZEN WOULD HAVE TO. if you are in the right - justice will come even if it takes time.
All nationalities are welcomed to live on RENTALS WHICH anycase makes more sense given that rentals are so CHEAP in goa compared to the price of purchase.
AND IF ITS TOO FRUSTRATING FOR YOU TO TAKE - you have the option to do what i have done - LEAVE GOA - go elsewhere in India - let me assure you it wont be long before you are back in praise of the same system you have been abusing.
FINALLY I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL - but one of the reasons i decided to join this forum was that im willing to do my 2 bits to help those of you facing hurdles with life in goa. its a limited perspective that i have to offer - but its available for those who are interested.
CHEERS!
Hi Equality
Welcome to the forum.
You make some fair points here and Im sure your contributions will add much to the debates.
Personally I find it quite sad to see a Goan state that they have given up on Goa, and I am sure that you can understand much of the frustration by those who have bought property in what they truly believed to be the legitimate way by employing lawyers, accoutants etc. Goa is like anywhere, there are many good people, but they are often overlooked because of the bad.
Personally I know that most people on here fell in love with Goa and bought property to live their dream. However those same people have had to experience and see first hand the less good side of Goa.
Thank you for your words of support to those fighting for justice.
I look forward to more from you
Dread - x
Jul 6th 2010 | 6:38 pm
#78
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
If you read Save Goa Poll - you can see that Lewis Betworth is collating all the members stories, in confidence, for the BHI. You should also read the BHI thread so you will understand what members are doing to help themselves. We have had a few meetings with the BHI, and although they are trying to sort out our problems they do not understand the complexities of the property situation and dealing with the Goan Authorities. Members have written to our Prime Minister, Foreign Secretary, Vaz etc, but nobody seems to be doing anything.
Looking at the situation from your point of view, you say people have purchased as it is cheaper to live in Goa - but they could equally have gone to another country.
We purchased 8 years ago (on a five year x visa, have deeds registered, now under investigation) after holidaying in Goa for 15 years. We purchased as we loved the people, so that we could spend our golden years in the country we loved escaping from the UK winter for health reasons. Our property was purchased primarily so that our children and grandchildren could enjoy the country we love, not for financial gain.
Looking at the situation from your point of view, you say people have purchased as it is cheaper to live in Goa - but they could equally have gone to another country.
We purchased 8 years ago (on a five year x visa, have deeds registered, now under investigation) after holidaying in Goa for 15 years. We purchased as we loved the people, so that we could spend our golden years in the country we loved escaping from the UK winter for health reasons. Our property was purchased primarily so that our children and grandchildren could enjoy the country we love, not for financial gain.
I admit & fully agree that most are in for the long run & not financial gain .... ,,,,, it was a minor point just saying that financial gain is the motive for some and the love of the place / people /food / environment was the motive for others ... again my limited point was that this was not done primarily iwth the intent of charity & was in reponse to some post that very seemed to indicate they had done a great favour to goan people by investing here - it was mutually beneficial. just as the british had options to go elsewhere the goans had other options of interested investors if it be the highly annoying north indians.
finally in most cases where the court cannot resolve your problem (why by the way could happen sometimes after the litigants lifetime) - then your contract / transaction was fundamentally flawed or you are extremely unlucky that the law has changed since. in most cases when laws change they do not do so with retrospective effect as in the case of CRZ laws which are applicable only to constructions affter the CRZ laws were enacted.
Jul 6th 2010 | 6:43 pm
#79
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
Like Noni we did not purchase our apartment to make money but because we love Goa and we have Goan friends and although it is cheaper to live in Goa than it is in the UK we still have to pay for our home in the UK while we are in Goa and because we use taxi's and eat out we spend more in Goa than we do in the UK where we grow our own vegetables and cook our own food at home most of the time.
I think some of my comments may have been misunderstood, I have no problem with anyone coming to the UK to work and pay their own way. What I do have a problem with is anyone who does not work and pay their way and expects to claim benefits paid for out of the taxes paid by those of us who have worked hard. It does not matter what race, colour or creed they are, British included. If Goans can get Portugees passports and come to the UK that is fine providing they pay their way but unless they have the qualifications which will help them to get a good job then they are either going to have to do unskilled work which does not pay well or claim benefits to which they have not contributed.
I think some of my comments may have been misunderstood, I have no problem with anyone coming to the UK to work and pay their own way. What I do have a problem with is anyone who does not work and pay their way and expects to claim benefits paid for out of the taxes paid by those of us who have worked hard. It does not matter what race, colour or creed they are, British included. If Goans can get Portugees passports and come to the UK that is fine providing they pay their way but unless they have the qualifications which will help them to get a good job then they are either going to have to do unskilled work which does not pay well or claim benefits to which they have not contributed.
- immigrants moving to the UK & seeking benefits (even though on a portuguese passport it is legitimate)
- people who play the race card falsely - they are underminiing the few who genuinly suffer this.
about the financial part pls see my responbse below to noni
Jul 6th 2010 | 6:49 pm
#80
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
Hi Equality
Welcome to the forum.
You make some fair points here and Im sure your contributions will add much to the debates.
Personally I find it quite sad to see a Goan state that they have given up on Goa, and I am sure that you can understand much of the frustration by those who have bought property in what they truly believed to be the legitimate way by employing lawyers, accoutants etc. Goa is like anywhere, there are many good people, but they are often overlooked because of the bad.
Personally I know that most people on here fell in love with Goa and bought property to live their dream. However those same people have had to experience and see first hand the less good side of Goa.
Thank you for your words of support to those fighting for justice.
I look forward to more from you
Dread - x
Welcome to the forum.
You make some fair points here and Im sure your contributions will add much to the debates.
Personally I find it quite sad to see a Goan state that they have given up on Goa, and I am sure that you can understand much of the frustration by those who have bought property in what they truly believed to be the legitimate way by employing lawyers, accoutants etc. Goa is like anywhere, there are many good people, but they are often overlooked because of the bad.
Personally I know that most people on here fell in love with Goa and bought property to live their dream. However those same people have had to experience and see first hand the less good side of Goa.
Thank you for your words of support to those fighting for justice.
I look forward to more from you
Dread - x
- i really dont see the situation improving given that too many people are benefiting financially from the current system - business, extortion or otherwise. its now really a situation where the only one who can get rid of someone like mikky is somenone worse than him - which i suspect is what is going on just now with him.
- the reason you see little good is they have all tried and given up. democracy has its own set of inefficiencies - if you are a majority you can run havoc - even if its wrong or illegal. my concern is that with time all the 'good' will be away and back for holidays to whine about what goa could have been - LIKE ME!!
Jul 6th 2010 | 7:19 pm
#81
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
[QUOTE=Bipat;8680693]
i agree my statement that 'Indians' serious lack of values and ethics' is a generalisation - but it is also a fact - just get out of your home and take a closer look around you. maybe i should have added a 'most' before indian in that sentence.
i dont think i meant to praise the portuguese - i did say that the asian terriroties they colonised were then made a integral part of their country and governed the same way - unlike the british from whom the east india company was just another business - bailed out by the british govenment when they were sinking after the uprising of 1857 (bailouts are not a new trend eh???) - this was really a background to explain why the grating of right to reclaim portuguese nationality to their subjects of 500 years was legitimate. they were not offered any choice than to take up indian nationality
The damage by Portuguese - religious and heritige on the other hand is equally condemable.
whether goa existed or not is debatable - but somethin existed - maybe not in the current form - i for one believe that history has had its own set of good and bad - today we should just look at how that period enriched what we are today - and i firmly believe were it not for the portuguese GOA would be just another coastal konkan village and possbly not even an independent state in the current form.
finally if we do wish to learn from history - ithink as much as we may criticise the european nations for the ambition to carve out the world for themselves - should we not wonder why was it the indian & african nations were the easiest targets - did we not invite it on ourselves - dont these countries which are fraction of the size of india deserve credit for their enterprise and how they built an army of our own people to rule over us!!!....
finally it is my take that the only unifying factors for the india of today are all owed to british rule:
- the territory that is indian today was unified only by its being under the british rule
- english is the only common language
- railway network
im sure were it not for this india could have been a continent like africa with several nation-state and goa being one of them OR an economic union like the EU at best (which i believe would have been much better - permitting for more balanced cultural integration)
CHEERS!
I am suprised to see the kind of posts on this link -
throughout my time in the UK i have had only good experiences. I AM NOW BEGGINING TO WONDER WAS IT ONLY BECAUSE I WAS IN SCOTLAND?? somone mentioned that all the staff in a scottish hotel were scots and was wondering why it isnt so in england - THATS BECUASE MOST ENGLISH JUST DONT WANT TO WORK - they just WANT TO sit and WHINE ABOUT THE ECONOMY, THE WEATHER , the lack of a job and how the whole world has wronged them.]
I agree with much of your post (I have also made the same protests) but are you not also guilty of generalization? for example the above quote and your later: 'Indians' serious lack of values and ethics'.
When you praise the Portuguese it is to be remembered that 'Goa' existed long before the Portuguese came to invade and exploit another country (as did the British, French, Dutch, Spanish etc intending to carve up the world for themselves).
The Portuguese burned irreplaceable Hindu libraries and destroyed temples.
However as I have said I agree with many of the points you have raised.
throughout my time in the UK i have had only good experiences. I AM NOW BEGGINING TO WONDER WAS IT ONLY BECAUSE I WAS IN SCOTLAND?? somone mentioned that all the staff in a scottish hotel were scots and was wondering why it isnt so in england - THATS BECUASE MOST ENGLISH JUST DONT WANT TO WORK - they just WANT TO sit and WHINE ABOUT THE ECONOMY, THE WEATHER , the lack of a job and how the whole world has wronged them.]
I agree with much of your post (I have also made the same protests) but are you not also guilty of generalization? for example the above quote and your later: 'Indians' serious lack of values and ethics'.
When you praise the Portuguese it is to be remembered that 'Goa' existed long before the Portuguese came to invade and exploit another country (as did the British, French, Dutch, Spanish etc intending to carve up the world for themselves).
The Portuguese burned irreplaceable Hindu libraries and destroyed temples.
However as I have said I agree with many of the points you have raised.
i dont think i meant to praise the portuguese - i did say that the asian terriroties they colonised were then made a integral part of their country and governed the same way - unlike the british from whom the east india company was just another business - bailed out by the british govenment when they were sinking after the uprising of 1857 (bailouts are not a new trend eh???) - this was really a background to explain why the grating of right to reclaim portuguese nationality to their subjects of 500 years was legitimate. they were not offered any choice than to take up indian nationality
The damage by Portuguese - religious and heritige on the other hand is equally condemable.
whether goa existed or not is debatable - but somethin existed - maybe not in the current form - i for one believe that history has had its own set of good and bad - today we should just look at how that period enriched what we are today - and i firmly believe were it not for the portuguese GOA would be just another coastal konkan village and possbly not even an independent state in the current form.
finally if we do wish to learn from history - ithink as much as we may criticise the european nations for the ambition to carve out the world for themselves - should we not wonder why was it the indian & african nations were the easiest targets - did we not invite it on ourselves - dont these countries which are fraction of the size of india deserve credit for their enterprise and how they built an army of our own people to rule over us!!!....
finally it is my take that the only unifying factors for the india of today are all owed to british rule:
- the territory that is indian today was unified only by its being under the british rule
- english is the only common language
- railway network
im sure were it not for this india could have been a continent like africa with several nation-state and goa being one of them OR an economic union like the EU at best (which i believe would have been much better - permitting for more balanced cultural integration)
CHEERS!
Jul 6th 2010 | 8:03 pm
#82
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,227
From: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
Excellent well balanced posts 
I for one am looking forward to returning at the end of the year for the season.
Am determined not to let situations get me down and enjoy what is left of our time in Goa.
I for one am looking forward to returning at the end of the year for the season.
Am determined not to let situations get me down and enjoy what is left of our time in Goa.
Jul 7th 2010 | 8:13 am
#83
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,295
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
[QUOTE=noni;8683181]Excellent well balanced posts ]
Noni I am not sure that a post stating that 'Most English just don't want to work' and 'A fact' 'most Indians lack values and ethics' is particularly balanced!!!
]Noni I am not sure that a post stating that 'Most English just don't want to work' and 'A fact' 'most Indians lack values and ethics' is particularly balanced!!!
Jul 7th 2010 | 8:42 am
#84
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,295
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
[QUOTE=equality;8683083][QUOTE=Bipat;8680693]
i agree my statement that 'Indians' serious lack of values and ethics' is a generalisation - but it is also a fact - just get out of your home and take a closer look around you. maybe i should have added a 'most' before indian in that sentence.
As an English woman married to a Konkan Indian husband I don't have to get out of my home. I must protest however that most of the English I know want to work, and most of my large extended family of inlaws all have the highest integrity and morals and have served their country in various ways. I can't think that they are unusual. Of course you are right there are too many workshy, immoral people in both nations but can you really say that most of them are like this??
i agree my statement that 'Indians' serious lack of values and ethics' is a generalisation - but it is also a fact - just get out of your home and take a closer look around you. maybe i should have added a 'most' before indian in that sentence.
As an English woman married to a Konkan Indian husband I don't have to get out of my home. I must protest however that most of the English I know want to work, and most of my large extended family of inlaws all have the highest integrity and morals and have served their country in various ways. I can't think that they are unusual. Of course you are right there are too many workshy, immoral people in both nations but can you really say that most of them are like this??
Jul 7th 2010 | 4:38 pm
#85
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
[QUOTE=Bipat;8684638][QUOTE=equality;8683083]
ok i agree this cant be emperically proved nor do i have statisitcs; im sorry if this has offended you!! these were just expressions to emphasise my point that: -
1. it is MY OPINION the average level of integrity in britain is much higher ; or maybe its just two different versions of society and in no way intended to reflect on your inlaws / acquaintances (which is why i said get out of your home). but while this is a sweeping statement and a generalisation - i do believe a comparison of our respective countrys systems & politics being of our own making / tolernace ; is the best justification i could present. i dont have any evidence to prove this - just my experience in both places - which could be skewed. also i must mention that in some cases the integrity levels adapt to the country they live in - menaning indians adapt the local standards in britain and vice versa - so it is a highly systemic problem.
2. obviously i dont mean all english dont want to work at all- if you see the context of that statement - (i was responding to the comparison with scotland where hotel staff are local )- i was really saying that there are't english in these jobs because MANY dont want to these kind of jobs!! amybe it is because some do have the option to wait till something better comes by which immigrant communities may not .. in scotland in comparison they have a limited choice for work ... i think most people got that was the point..... and the same applies to goans (including me ) who keep grumbling about migrant labour coming in when we very well know that almost no goan would be willing to do that work in anycase...
anyone who thought it was balanced really understood the comments within the context that they were made (in response to) .... either way nobody gunning for an award here...
i agree my statement that 'Indians' serious lack of values and ethics' is a generalisation - but it is also a fact - just get out of your home and take a closer look around you. maybe i should have added a 'most' before indian in that sentence.
As an English woman married to a Konkan Indian husband I don't have to get out of my home. I must protest however that most of the English I know want to work, and most of my large extended family of inlaws all have the highest integrity and morals and have served their country in various ways. I can't think that they are unusual. Of course you are right there are too many workshy, immoral people in both nations but can you really say that most of them are like this??
As an English woman married to a Konkan Indian husband I don't have to get out of my home. I must protest however that most of the English I know want to work, and most of my large extended family of inlaws all have the highest integrity and morals and have served their country in various ways. I can't think that they are unusual. Of course you are right there are too many workshy, immoral people in both nations but can you really say that most of them are like this??
1. it is MY OPINION the average level of integrity in britain is much higher ; or maybe its just two different versions of society and in no way intended to reflect on your inlaws / acquaintances (which is why i said get out of your home). but while this is a sweeping statement and a generalisation - i do believe a comparison of our respective countrys systems & politics being of our own making / tolernace ; is the best justification i could present. i dont have any evidence to prove this - just my experience in both places - which could be skewed. also i must mention that in some cases the integrity levels adapt to the country they live in - menaning indians adapt the local standards in britain and vice versa - so it is a highly systemic problem.
2. obviously i dont mean all english dont want to work at all- if you see the context of that statement - (i was responding to the comparison with scotland where hotel staff are local )- i was really saying that there are't english in these jobs because MANY dont want to these kind of jobs!! amybe it is because some do have the option to wait till something better comes by which immigrant communities may not .. in scotland in comparison they have a limited choice for work ... i think most people got that was the point..... and the same applies to goans (including me ) who keep grumbling about migrant labour coming in when we very well know that almost no goan would be willing to do that work in anycase...
anyone who thought it was balanced really understood the comments within the context that they were made (in response to) .... either way nobody gunning for an award here...
Last edited by equality; Jul 7th 2010 at 4:47 pm.
Jul 7th 2010 | 7:41 pm
#86
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,295
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
[QUOTE=equality;8685406][QUOTE=Bipat;8684638][QUOTE=equality;8683083]
any evidence to prove this - just my experience in both places - which could be skewed. also i must mention that in some cases the integrity levels adapt to the country they live in - menaning indians adapt the local standards in britain and vice versa - so it is a highly systemic problem.]
You have made a very valid point. Over the years my mindset has become more 'Indian' yours may I say seems to have become 'British'.
Dare I take courage (expect to be shot down!) and suggest that if those 'expats' who are so disgruntled become a little less 'white/British' in their minds they might be happier in general while still fighting for their property rights.
any evidence to prove this - just my experience in both places - which could be skewed. also i must mention that in some cases the integrity levels adapt to the country they live in - menaning indians adapt the local standards in britain and vice versa - so it is a highly systemic problem.]
You have made a very valid point. Over the years my mindset has become more 'Indian' yours may I say seems to have become 'British'.
Dare I take courage (expect to be shot down!) and suggest that if those 'expats' who are so disgruntled become a little less 'white/British' in their minds they might be happier in general while still fighting for their property rights.
Jul 10th 2010 | 12:33 pm
#88
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,680
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
[QUOTE=Bipat;8685642][QUOTE=equality;8685406][QUOTE=Bipat;8684638]
any evidence to prove this - just my experience in both places - which could be skewed. also i must mention that in some cases the integrity levels adapt to the country they live in - menaning indians adapt the local standards in britain and vice versa - so it is a highly systemic problem.]
You have made a very valid point. Over the years my mindset has become more 'Indian' yours may I say seems to have become 'British'.
Dare I take courage (expect to be shot down!) and suggest that if those 'expats' who are so disgruntled become a little less 'white/British' in their minds they might be happier in general while still fighting for their property rights.
I don't think this amounts to people being of a 'white British' mindset, just ordinary hardworking people who want fair play and are shafted at every avenue !
I for one am anything but 'White British' but I am still very aggrieved by the treatment I have received by SOME Goans - and professional licensed Goans at that. I do not castigate all or even most Goan people, just those who engage in criminality and corruption to the extreme detriment of others.
Perhaps we should all accept that emotions and mindsets vary according to circumstances.
Dread - x
any evidence to prove this - just my experience in both places - which could be skewed. also i must mention that in some cases the integrity levels adapt to the country they live in - menaning indians adapt the local standards in britain and vice versa - so it is a highly systemic problem.]
You have made a very valid point. Over the years my mindset has become more 'Indian' yours may I say seems to have become 'British'.
Dare I take courage (expect to be shot down!) and suggest that if those 'expats' who are so disgruntled become a little less 'white/British' in their minds they might be happier in general while still fighting for their property rights.
I don't think this amounts to people being of a 'white British' mindset, just ordinary hardworking people who want fair play and are shafted at every avenue !
I for one am anything but 'White British' but I am still very aggrieved by the treatment I have received by SOME Goans - and professional licensed Goans at that. I do not castigate all or even most Goan people, just those who engage in criminality and corruption to the extreme detriment of others.
Perhaps we should all accept that emotions and mindsets vary according to circumstances.
Dread - x
Jul 10th 2010 | 9:32 pm
#89
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,295
Re: More Goans heading for the UK !
[QUOTE=dreadsoc;8692498][QUOTE=Bipat;8685642][QUOTE=equality;8685406]
I don't think this amounts to people being of a 'white British' mindset, just ordinary hardworking people who want fair play and are shafted at every avenue !
I for one am anything but 'White British' but I am still very aggrieved by the treatment I have received by SOME Goans - and professional licensed Goans at that. I do not castigate all or even most Goan people, just those who engage in criminality and corruption to the extreme detriment of others.
Perhaps we should all accept that emotions and mindsets vary according to circumstances.
Dread - x
I agree-- I agree, I didn't mean in your dealings with criminals and co-men in your property injustice or you personally, my post wasn't clear.
My suggestion was that some expats have extended their wrath to Goans/Indians/ immigrants to UK in general and see the world from only a 'Brit' view, which possibly makes them even more unhappy. For example the early posts on this thread which led me to contribute to the discussion.
Other examples: the 'hoards' of domestic tourists (there are 'hoards' of every sort of Indian!) and their terrible habit of ogling women in their bikinis, but it's OK to ogle poor Indians in their underpants. They ' photograph little blonde children' but it's OK that many British photo-galleries have photos of Indian children with their big brown eyes.
Some posts offend, quote: "Many say Indians in general are racist, and castist and religious bigots."
I have come now to realise that when I sit with Indian relatives at our favourite Palolem restaurant, there will be possibly a Brit fearful that one of the party will start spitting or rush out on to the beach and defecate!!! Joke?
As I have said these posts are from very few expats and I can fully understand the anger and constant worry of those who risk losing their savings.
I don't think this amounts to people being of a 'white British' mindset, just ordinary hardworking people who want fair play and are shafted at every avenue !
I for one am anything but 'White British' but I am still very aggrieved by the treatment I have received by SOME Goans - and professional licensed Goans at that. I do not castigate all or even most Goan people, just those who engage in criminality and corruption to the extreme detriment of others.
Perhaps we should all accept that emotions and mindsets vary according to circumstances.
Dread - x
My suggestion was that some expats have extended their wrath to Goans/Indians/ immigrants to UK in general and see the world from only a 'Brit' view, which possibly makes them even more unhappy. For example the early posts on this thread which led me to contribute to the discussion.
Other examples: the 'hoards' of domestic tourists (there are 'hoards' of every sort of Indian!) and their terrible habit of ogling women in their bikinis, but it's OK to ogle poor Indians in their underpants. They ' photograph little blonde children' but it's OK that many British photo-galleries have photos of Indian children with their big brown eyes.
Some posts offend, quote: "Many say Indians in general are racist, and castist and religious bigots."
I have come now to realise that when I sit with Indian relatives at our favourite Palolem restaurant, there will be possibly a Brit fearful that one of the party will start spitting or rush out on to the beach and defecate!!! Joke?
As I have said these posts are from very few expats and I can fully understand the anger and constant worry of those who risk losing their savings.
