Meow

LOL, not disagreement; more clarification.

Miss Ann Thrope

So, speaking of crap restaurants in Dubai and the abundance thereof, I made the foolish mistake or returning to the place where I had enjoyed a truly memorably good - and therefore highly unusual - meal out in Dubai recently. Within three weeks of the first experience, I ordered the same food in the same place at around the same time of day with a similar crowd in the place (i.e. almost nobody) and second time around it was rubbish. Same dish, same ingredients, same recipe (which was the comment from the chef when I gave my feedback - obviously failing to consider that simply verified that he was the critical variable that had failed on this occasion).

So consistency is also a big issue in Dubai restaurants I think. The dish was fish tacos at Citywalk branch of Clinton Street Baking Co. I think I raved about it in passing in another thread here after the first good experience, as it happens...

scrubbedexpat141

Is there anything more frustrating and disappointing?

Irishbeekeeper

jeez! I honestly clicked on this link hoping to find a decent thai place near burjuman

someone up there rightly pointed out 'context'. As a sort of westernized brown skin I have been dealing with blatant or subtle or ingrained or involuntary hence all kinds of racism all my life. I have many many white friends, and since the word for white in urdu/hindi is gora so I wouldnt mind calling them that but only if they dont mind either (I have yet to come across someone who doesnt like being called that) and vice versa when they are taking the piss out of me they call me things much worse than Paki or Brown and in all honesty since its all in good fun I dont mind. Ofcourse if its not in good fun and being said rather nastily by someone I dont know then ofcourse it will hurt. I studied in greek cyprus for 4 years and they call us 'Scado Mavros' (blacks). The first year it used to piss me off but then you just develop a thick skin. But now since I have experienced such blatant and ingrained racism myself, I am very careful with my words when not in front of my friends who know me.

In my humble opinion and life experiences (however limited they are), Brits/scots/irish/welsh etc and Newyorkers/Californians are the least racist of the lot. Chinese and Indians are super super racist, Arabs being on the second highest tier and the mid-west rednecks on a close 3rd. Ofcourse that doesnt mean ALL of them are, but yes I guess there is a bit of a generalization in there which we cant ignore. Having lived in the middle east for just a small time now (6 years), you cant help but generalize certain nationalities of people living alongside you in different categories. Is that racist to do so? Well I guess all of us are slightly racist to a certain degree. After all we gravitate towards our kind naturally dont we? Same language, same norms etc etc. If you are white and you see a crowd of mixed color people standing around an accident scene, you will naturally move towards the white guy/girl right? ofcourse you would, not because of the color skin but because your brain has instantly made that connection that this person would probably know your language so hence you move in that direction. Point is, that isnt being called racist, thats just how our brains are hard wired. Hence our choice of words when trying to communicate about different nationalities I guess. Its easier on the lips to just say 'kala' (black) when talking to a guy in my own language when trying to describe a customer from Africa. right? no. wrong? yes. But I make sure first of all that I dont use that word in front of that customer as he probably knows that word and would probably beat the crap out of me (as we all instantly assume African men are big and bulky dont we? ) and second I make sure I dont use that word in front of my kids so not to set a bad example. It is SO easy to ingrain these things in kids that its not even funny.

Btw, I dont think anyone should apologize for the sins of their fathers especially if they think they did wrong. If that were to happen then we have a saying in my language : 'Iss hamam mein sub nangay hein' i.e. 'Everyones naked in this steam room (and so are you so why call anyone naked)'

Millhouse

Fish tacos

Two words that never should be put together.

Miss Ann Thrope

Good, more for me!

Miss Ann Thrope

But isn't that the basic test: don't use a word about anybody that you wouldn't use to their face (assuming they understood the meaning of the word). It's just about being a decent human being.

Millhouse

My capacity to use words directly at peoples' faces is surprisingly high.

scrubbedexpat141

I honestly couldn't do this. I'd just be rude to every single person I met.

DXBtoDOH

I don't disagree. The difference between you and me is that I'm perhaps a bit more pragmatic about the realities of human nature. But what particularly bothers me is that you and Miss Meow were saying was that it was the West (or white Westerners) who have extra responsibility not to be racist. So you turn a blind eye to the widespread and common racism of the Asians and Indians while criticising Western racism (alleging that it's ok because Westerners are, in theory, richer and more powerful, despite that as the years go by it's less and less the case). At least that was the implication on this thread. It's the double standard I objected to.

I won't discuss any further. Sorry to do a post and run but I've seen enough that viewpoints are too firmly set.

weasel decentral

In my ME roles particularly in the more remote spots and now in India I am exposed to a lot of prejudice, bordering on what could be termed straight up racism in some cases.
However I literally couldn't give a **** or as a more likely explanation I am arrogant/thick skinned/white biased enough to blithely ignore it.

Miss Ann Thrope

1. What I actually said, and please read again carefully if you doubt me (Meow is perfectly capable of answering for herself), was that in the CONTEXT of UK/Western world which is the specifically relevant context here, using words which have a very negative history for minorities deserves to be called out. That is the least one would expect of people of all colour who espouse western values of liberal (small L) democracy, which I strongly believe is the best system for humanity to govern itself. After all, as Lord Acton himself observed, the test of a democracy is how it treats its minorities: that is not a test that the west passed until relatively recently so why revert?

2. I certainly do not but that is not relevant here. There is also a big difference in context between generally racist attitudes and abuse of racial or other minorities, both of which are sadly widespread around the world. But it makes it much harder to condemn this behaviour elsewhere if our own house is not in order on this point.

3. No double standard, just a different topic.

4. Your choice.

Millhouse

so after all this drama, is the conclusion that we can, or cannot ask the question "chinky or a curry for dinner?"

I have a couple of indian friends that absolutely hate the reference of "curry" to mean Indian food. "'m a North Indian, I don't eat f'ing curry..."

"ok"

scrubbedexpat141

Shit. I've just realised I call it a 'cuzza' from time to time. Is that bad?

Millhouse

nah, it just mates you sound like a ****