Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Dec 14th 2007, 11:26 pm
#91
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Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,533
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Dec 15th 2007, 12:01 am
#92
poole ,dorset . love it
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,281
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
We changed our mind in Australia roughly *one million times* about where we wanted to live. One issue was that we never planned to move there. A job was offered to me, and I snapped it up in about three seconds. We moved to Aus and thought, "oh, we live 12,000 miles away". (Though I don't know what can prepare anyone for such a move.) I suffered pretty extreme homesickness for a few months. Then we were 50/50, 60/40, 40/60 for a long time . I was quite open about this and generally saw pros and cons on both sides. (I even accepted a new job in Aus just before we returned, then rejected it. We didn't know what was for the best.) When we had a baby, my wife loved Aus once she found some friends as they were out every day in the park, by the beach, at the pool, etc. But family issues came into it, and I still longed for the vibe and geography of the UK as I had experienced it as a non-parent, and seeing some very good friends and family. Also I was in a low paying job (lecturer) on a single income, which did limit us somewhat (though somehow we were financially better off than we are now with me earning much more and wife working P/T). The family emphasis changed when my wife lost her Mum a week before we returned.
What we knew then is the same now - our day to day life was better in Australia, and our occasional life was better in the UK. The former is still quite true, the latter not really. What we did not account for is that what matters with a child (for us) is the day to day life because this has the most impact on our quality of life and stress. The occasional things that we enjoyed (hill walking, driving up and down the country, short breaks to Europe, going out here there and everywhere) without children are mostly now not feasible with children for us. Any enjoyment that they bring is outweighed by the sheer stress involved. As I say, this is different probably with older children, or with none. We did not factor this into our decision to return, but even if we had, it wouldn't have mattered enough until we felt it. And coming back was a great move, because had we not, we would STILL be wondering where to live, as are many other people on this forum who are still in Australia and were wondering where to live when I was there. That is not a good place to be. But in order to get out of this you have to convince yourself, one way or the other - otherwise you are stuck in Limbo. Many posts on here are from people trying to convince themselves by writing about their situation. That is a perfectly valid thing to do. It doesn't mean it will work out that way.
On moving back, the first summer was great, but come late 2006 there was no 50/50 any more - I knew we had outgrown the UK. And I have only had occasional doubts since (and none for many months). This is quite different to our time in Sydney, which was characterised by uncertainty (hence many Expat posts then, few now).
It really comes down to feelings. In Australia I experienced joy (an enormous sense of wellbeing, many times just walking to work - I put it down to sunlight), calm (again, sunlight related I think), fun (outdoors, a lot), isolation (miles from anywhere, stuck in Sydney, like living on an island), annoyance (during intense heat, especially with flies), light (important for me), positivity (infectious, sometimes annoyingly parochial), doubt (about where to live). In the UK, I experience stress (about the pace of life, traffic, cost of living), fear (about the future, about going out at night - much of it probably quite irrational on inspection), discomfort (cold, wet), dark (cloud, a lot), negativity/pessimism (among many people, expressed spontaneously and without prompting), certainty (about where to live), joy (which is unfortunately far too seasonal). I don't accept the Daily Mail view (God knows if it was the last newspaper on earth I would only use it for kindling material). I just accept my experience.
The important thing to emphasise is that these are just my feelings and perceptions, and I always try to make that clear. This is why almost everything on here is, depressingly, of very little use whatsoever in helping anyone to make a decision - most of it is simply not applicable. Everyone is in different situations with regard to expectations, values, family, interests, activities, careers, finances, etc. Even people living in places that would appall us may be more satisfied with life. We are both luck and unlucky to have a choice.
What we knew then is the same now - our day to day life was better in Australia, and our occasional life was better in the UK. The former is still quite true, the latter not really. What we did not account for is that what matters with a child (for us) is the day to day life because this has the most impact on our quality of life and stress. The occasional things that we enjoyed (hill walking, driving up and down the country, short breaks to Europe, going out here there and everywhere) without children are mostly now not feasible with children for us. Any enjoyment that they bring is outweighed by the sheer stress involved. As I say, this is different probably with older children, or with none. We did not factor this into our decision to return, but even if we had, it wouldn't have mattered enough until we felt it. And coming back was a great move, because had we not, we would STILL be wondering where to live, as are many other people on this forum who are still in Australia and were wondering where to live when I was there. That is not a good place to be. But in order to get out of this you have to convince yourself, one way or the other - otherwise you are stuck in Limbo. Many posts on here are from people trying to convince themselves by writing about their situation. That is a perfectly valid thing to do. It doesn't mean it will work out that way.
On moving back, the first summer was great, but come late 2006 there was no 50/50 any more - I knew we had outgrown the UK. And I have only had occasional doubts since (and none for many months). This is quite different to our time in Sydney, which was characterised by uncertainty (hence many Expat posts then, few now).
It really comes down to feelings. In Australia I experienced joy (an enormous sense of wellbeing, many times just walking to work - I put it down to sunlight), calm (again, sunlight related I think), fun (outdoors, a lot), isolation (miles from anywhere, stuck in Sydney, like living on an island), annoyance (during intense heat, especially with flies), light (important for me), positivity (infectious, sometimes annoyingly parochial), doubt (about where to live). In the UK, I experience stress (about the pace of life, traffic, cost of living), fear (about the future, about going out at night - much of it probably quite irrational on inspection), discomfort (cold, wet), dark (cloud, a lot), negativity/pessimism (among many people, expressed spontaneously and without prompting), certainty (about where to live), joy (which is unfortunately far too seasonal). I don't accept the Daily Mail view (God knows if it was the last newspaper on earth I would only use it for kindling material). I just accept my experience.
The important thing to emphasise is that these are just my feelings and perceptions, and I always try to make that clear. This is why almost everything on here is, depressingly, of very little use whatsoever in helping anyone to make a decision - most of it is simply not applicable. Everyone is in different situations with regard to expectations, values, family, interests, activities, careers, finances, etc. Even people living in places that would appall us may be more satisfied with life. We are both luck and unlucky to have a choice.
I am sure you have thought it out a thousand times and probably like most of us who have found migration difficult probably analyzed it to death and unfortunately there is no answer except to go with your heart and mind at the time ,so if australia is for you now thats good but i think you like me have to come to terms australia maybe never forever and the best way to deal with it get yourself financiallyinto a position to be able to enjoy both countries . Good luck
Dec 15th 2007, 12:16 am
#93
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 21
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
I am utterly - utterly - astonished that you are a counsellor. I am angry at your pathetic caricature. You are clearly do not ascribe to the person-centred approach (if any). I have never heard any counsellor - or anyone in the healing professions - come out with anything quite so rancid. It is no surpise you have not made any Australian friends with this view of the person.
You need to take a long hard look at yourself. Because if this is what is driving you away, then moving countries will not help.
You need to take a long hard look at yourself. Because if this is what is driving you away, then moving countries will not help.
I agree with Scooby in most of what has been said, I have brough up children in the UK and Australia and would prefer to live, and bring up children in the UK. I have two grown up children, and have living, experience of this, unlike you whose children are very young.
I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself, before you spout off. Having ping ponged between the two countries it would seem that you cant make your mind up about what you want. Fair enough, your choice, but to put someone down like that on a discussion forum is, in out of order. I dont come on here very often, and dont want to because of people like you.
Nice try LOL.
Dec 15th 2007, 1:12 am
#96
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 21
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Dec 15th 2007, 2:53 am
#97
Tea Drinker
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Posts: 5,387
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
All the best to you
Dec 15th 2007, 4:56 am
#98
I don't give a damn
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: In the arms of my family. Heaven...
Posts: 4,980
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
I am utterly - utterly - astonished that you are a counsellor. I am angry at your pathetic caricature. You are clearly do not ascribe to the person-centred approach (if any). I have never heard any counsellor - or anyone in the healing professions - come out with anything quite so rancid. It is no surpise you have not made any Australian friends with this view of the person.
You need to take a long hard look at yourself. Because if this is what is driving you away, then moving countries will not help.
You need to take a long hard look at yourself. Because if this is what is driving you away, then moving countries will not help.
I know from personal experience that just because you work in the healing of minds "trade" It does not preclude YOU from the same thoughts, feelings and emotions of all other human beings. Are you seriously saying that because you are a psychologist/counsellor/ or other various fields to do with the human condition that somehow you are "different"? RUBBISH!
I think Scooby is entitled to the same freedom of expression as everyone else regardless of her profession. Just because it does not match your views doesnt mean she isnt entitled to voice them.
And in her defence, she was talking in the "general" NOT a personal attack as your post was.
Some of what she said i agree with, some i didnt, but i suggest YOU look at your "person centred approach" and take your head out of your arse.
Last edited by Fleaflyfloflum; Dec 15th 2007 at 5:08 am.
Dec 15th 2007, 5:33 am
#99
'In limboland'
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,880
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Personally, I find your response far more offensive than Scoobys!!
I know from personal experience that just because you work in the healing of minds "trade" It does not preclude YOU from the same thoughts, feelings and emotions of all other human beings. Are you seriously saying that because you are a psychologist/counsellor/ or other various fields to do with the human condition that somehow you are "different"? RUBBISH!
I think Scooby is entitled to the same freedom of expression as everyone else regardless of her profession. Just because it does not match your views doesnt mean she isnt entitled to voice them.
And in her defence, she was talking in the "general" NOT a personal attack as your post was.
Some of what she said i agree with, some i didnt, but i suggest YOU look at your "person centred approach" and take your head out of your arse.
I know from personal experience that just because you work in the healing of minds "trade" It does not preclude YOU from the same thoughts, feelings and emotions of all other human beings. Are you seriously saying that because you are a psychologist/counsellor/ or other various fields to do with the human condition that somehow you are "different"? RUBBISH!
I think Scooby is entitled to the same freedom of expression as everyone else regardless of her profession. Just because it does not match your views doesnt mean she isnt entitled to voice them.
And in her defence, she was talking in the "general" NOT a personal attack as your post was.
Some of what she said i agree with, some i didnt, but i suggest YOU look at your "person centred approach" and take your head out of your arse.
Dec 15th 2007, 6:05 am
#100
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Canberra
Posts: 8,378
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Personally, I find your response far more offensive than Scoobys!!
I know from personal experience that just because you work in the healing of minds "trade" It does not preclude YOU from the same thoughts, feelings and emotions of all other human beings. Are you seriously saying that because you are a psychologist/counsellor/ or other various fields to do with the human condition that somehow you are "different"? RUBBISH!
I think Scooby is entitled to the same freedom of expression as everyone else regardless of her profession. Just because it does not match your views doesnt mean she isnt entitled to voice them.
And in her defence, she was talking in the "general" NOT a personal attack as your post was.
Some of what she said i agree with, some i didnt, but i suggest YOU look at your "person centred approach" and take your head out of your arse.
I know from personal experience that just because you work in the healing of minds "trade" It does not preclude YOU from the same thoughts, feelings and emotions of all other human beings. Are you seriously saying that because you are a psychologist/counsellor/ or other various fields to do with the human condition that somehow you are "different"? RUBBISH!
I think Scooby is entitled to the same freedom of expression as everyone else regardless of her profession. Just because it does not match your views doesnt mean she isnt entitled to voice them.
And in her defence, she was talking in the "general" NOT a personal attack as your post was.
Some of what she said i agree with, some i didnt, but i suggest YOU look at your "person centred approach" and take your head out of your arse.
Dec 15th 2007, 6:43 am
#103
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,133
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
Mmmmm, pizza. 
Dec 15th 2007, 7:34 am
#105
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 629
Re: Do you worry about raising your kids in the UK?
I think this is a very unfair judgement to be making - it was, after all, Scooby's opinion to which they are entitled. I have looked through your posts and have noticed that you are a psychologist, yet, you, do have a right to an opinion - dont you - so why can scooby have an opinion? After all, you have described British as 'chavs' and generally a negative population. Is this your way of using a person centred approach?
I agree with Scooby in most of what has been said, I have brough up children in the UK and Australia and would prefer to live, and bring up children in the UK. I have two grown up children, and have living, experience of this, unlike you whose children are very young.
I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself, before you spout off. Having ping ponged between the two countries it would seem that you cant make your mind up about what you want. Fair enough, your choice, but to put someone down like that on a discussion forum is, in out of order. I dont come on here very often, and dont want to because of people like you.
I agree with Scooby in most of what has been said, I have brough up children in the UK and Australia and would prefer to live, and bring up children in the UK. I have two grown up children, and have living, experience of this, unlike you whose children are very young.
I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself, before you spout off. Having ping ponged between the two countries it would seem that you cant make your mind up about what you want. Fair enough, your choice, but to put someone down like that on a discussion forum is, in out of order. I dont come on here very often, and dont want to because of people like you.
She said this about AUSTRALIANS. If someone said these about people from a country in Asia, Africa, South America, it would be seen as deeply racist. Because it's about a predominantly white, Western country, I suppose it's OK? The fact that she hold this opinion about people, and counsels them, is horrible. (I am not a counsellor by the way.) Never have I labelled a whole population in that way (as you wrongly suggest).
Last edited by ShozInOz; Dec 15th 2007 at 7:45 am.