A22 Toll Road 15th April
Jun 18th 2011, 5:48 pm
#271
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Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
Workmen seem to be doing an awful lot of work on gantry's, etc...... 
Jun 21st 2011, 7:58 am
#272
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Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
You are right on the work front, but on the Faro gantry all the overhead sensors have been removed.
As for.. 'there is money to be made'
You could have said the same about TV licences when they tried to introduce them... There was also money to be made, but did it happen?
How much has it cost to install all this equipment so far? Plus, if the last lot of control huts were trashed how much will it cost to replace them and what is to say, despite a few security bars being added, that the next lot won't be trashed again?
As mentioned earlier the tyre fire approach appeared to be far more than just a couple of people venting their anger. It was too coordinated to be just that. Therefore I feel that it's not simply a case of fixing the system and watching the cash roll in.
Sometimes a government actually needs to listen to the people. Not a tradition that appears to be catching on in Portugal.. or the UK for that matter.
As for.. 'there is money to be made'
You could have said the same about TV licences when they tried to introduce them... There was also money to be made, but did it happen?
How much has it cost to install all this equipment so far? Plus, if the last lot of control huts were trashed how much will it cost to replace them and what is to say, despite a few security bars being added, that the next lot won't be trashed again?
As mentioned earlier the tyre fire approach appeared to be far more than just a couple of people venting their anger. It was too coordinated to be just that. Therefore I feel that it's not simply a case of fixing the system and watching the cash roll in.
Sometimes a government actually needs to listen to the people. Not a tradition that appears to be catching on in Portugal.. or the UK for that matter.
Last edited by james.mc; Jun 21st 2011 at 8:19 am.
Jun 21st 2011, 8:29 am
#274
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Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
I've said from the start they should make them speed cameras instead to improve road safety on the A22. Portuguese drivers may end up bankrupt but hey...
Jul 14th 2011, 8:24 am
#276
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Location: Berkshire and Manta Rota
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Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
So, it seems the tolls are definately on the way by mid September. I for one will not be hiring anymore cars from Faro airport until the inevitable shambolic mess is resolved
Jul 14th 2011, 9:11 am
#277
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Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
It seems likely we will see lots of complaints about hire companies and how they pass the toll charges onto their customers.
It may be that the larger ones such as Hertz, Avis etc, could have a field day with their large volume turnover and charging credit cards after people have returned home.
Jul 14th 2011, 10:30 pm
#278
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Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
"So, it seems the tolls are definately on the way by mid September. I for one will not be hiring anymore cars from Faro airport until the inevitable shambolic mess is resolved."
I'm with you on that, Monkeynut: it's going to be a nightmare, particularly for tourists who aren't aware of the new rules. Just when we hear that the Algarve is full for the summer and that things are looking up tourist-wise, the government finds the perfect way to ensure that many of them get hit hard in their credit cards long after they have returned home, so that they vow never to return again.
The problem for me is that getting to Lagos any other way is quite expensive if I use a private taxi or time-consuming if I use the bus to Faro and then the train. Trying to get to Lagos by transit coach or Resorthoppa's laughably misnamed "speedy shuttle" is an experience I am never ever going to repeat.
In a way it's a pity that the tolls didn't go live in June, because the chaos would be happening now and it might have got sorted out in time for next season. Starting in September the tolls are likely to work without the same level of problems until next season starts, so 2012 will be the nightmare year.
I'm with you on that, Monkeynut: it's going to be a nightmare, particularly for tourists who aren't aware of the new rules. Just when we hear that the Algarve is full for the summer and that things are looking up tourist-wise, the government finds the perfect way to ensure that many of them get hit hard in their credit cards long after they have returned home, so that they vow never to return again.
The problem for me is that getting to Lagos any other way is quite expensive if I use a private taxi or time-consuming if I use the bus to Faro and then the train. Trying to get to Lagos by transit coach or Resorthoppa's laughably misnamed "speedy shuttle" is an experience I am never ever going to repeat.
In a way it's a pity that the tolls didn't go live in June, because the chaos would be happening now and it might have got sorted out in time for next season. Starting in September the tolls are likely to work without the same level of problems until next season starts, so 2012 will be the nightmare year.
Jul 15th 2011, 1:12 am
#279
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Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
Goodness me, ease up on the doom and gloom......
"many of them get hit hard in their credit cards long after they have returned home"
Assuming that it will work like that is just "glass half empty" conjecture.
From what has been said officially, "visitors" to Portugal, including people hiring cars at Faro will pay a 27€ refundable deposit to hire a transponder, and be required to prepay 50€ at that time. When the transponder is returned, back at the airport, you get back your deposit, and any of the 50€ prepayment that hasn't been used. It's all in the Portugal News.
I accept that having to charge 77€ to your credit card on arrival is a bit unpleasant, but those that don't like it always have the option to stay in the UK and get cold and wet instead - at the end of the day the only money you actually pay is exactly the same as those of us that live here full time will pay for using the road.
Where it does get a bit daft is for the people in Spain who just want to pop over for the day.....messing about with transponders and deposits for a day trip is sure to be a pain....for people coming over for a couple of weeks, less so.
The tolls are happening.....so whatever our views on them we have two choices.....deal with it, or drive on the 125.
"many of them get hit hard in their credit cards long after they have returned home"
Assuming that it will work like that is just "glass half empty" conjecture.
From what has been said officially, "visitors" to Portugal, including people hiring cars at Faro will pay a 27€ refundable deposit to hire a transponder, and be required to prepay 50€ at that time. When the transponder is returned, back at the airport, you get back your deposit, and any of the 50€ prepayment that hasn't been used. It's all in the Portugal News.
I accept that having to charge 77€ to your credit card on arrival is a bit unpleasant, but those that don't like it always have the option to stay in the UK and get cold and wet instead - at the end of the day the only money you actually pay is exactly the same as those of us that live here full time will pay for using the road.
Where it does get a bit daft is for the people in Spain who just want to pop over for the day.....messing about with transponders and deposits for a day trip is sure to be a pain....for people coming over for a couple of weeks, less so.
The tolls are happening.....so whatever our views on them we have two choices.....deal with it, or drive on the 125.
Jul 15th 2011, 1:14 am
#280
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Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
"I for one will not be hiring anymore cars from Faro airport until the inevitable shambolic mess is resolved"
Enjoy the train then, jolly hot on there at this time of year.....
Enjoy the train then, jolly hot on there at this time of year.....
Jul 15th 2011, 7:11 am
#281
Forum Regular
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Location: Berkshire and Manta Rota
Posts: 34
Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
I don't recall ever mentioning using the train 
Jul 15th 2011, 8:12 am
#282
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
Goodness me, ease up on the doom and gloom......
"many of them get hit hard in their credit cards long after they have returned home"
Assuming that it will work like that is just "glass half empty" conjecture.
From what has been said officially, "visitors" to Portugal, including people hiring cars at Faro will pay a 27€ refundable deposit to hire a transponder, and be required to prepay 50€ at that time. When the transponder is returned, back at the airport, you get back your deposit, and any of the 50€ prepayment that hasn't been used. It's all in the Portugal News.
I accept that having to charge 77€ to your credit card on arrival is a bit unpleasant, but those that don't like it always have the option to stay in the UK and get cold and wet instead - at the end of the day the only money you actually pay is exactly the same as those of us that live here full time will pay for using the road.
Where it does get a bit daft is for the people in Spain who just want to pop over for the day.....messing about with transponders and deposits for a day trip is sure to be a pain....for people coming over for a couple of weeks, less so.
The tolls are happening.....so whatever our views on them we have two choices.....deal with it, or drive on the 125.
"many of them get hit hard in their credit cards long after they have returned home"
Assuming that it will work like that is just "glass half empty" conjecture.
From what has been said officially, "visitors" to Portugal, including people hiring cars at Faro will pay a 27€ refundable deposit to hire a transponder, and be required to prepay 50€ at that time. When the transponder is returned, back at the airport, you get back your deposit, and any of the 50€ prepayment that hasn't been used. It's all in the Portugal News.
I accept that having to charge 77€ to your credit card on arrival is a bit unpleasant, but those that don't like it always have the option to stay in the UK and get cold and wet instead - at the end of the day the only money you actually pay is exactly the same as those of us that live here full time will pay for using the road.
Where it does get a bit daft is for the people in Spain who just want to pop over for the day.....messing about with transponders and deposits for a day trip is sure to be a pain....for people coming over for a couple of weeks, less so.
The tolls are happening.....so whatever our views on them we have two choices.....deal with it, or drive on the 125.
.If you think that the transponder issue/return could be dealt with by the hire company - think again. The charges database will not be available to them (or if it is the Portuguese have found a loophole in data protection laws)
Jul 15th 2011, 10:03 am
#283
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Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
"So: we are going to see an efficient Government (or Post Office) operation at Faro airport which operates 24/7 and can deal with a rush of plane arrivals and departures - issuing transponders, dealing with returned transponders and credit card payments, handling complaints etc in a number of languages. Wow this new government really is a change from the old.
If you think that the transponder issue/return could be dealt with by the hire company - think again. The charges database will not be available to them (or if it is the Portuguese have found a loophole in data protection laws)"
OK, yes, when put like that, perhaps I am being overly optimistic about how it will work in reality.
Everything like this is chaotic until it settles (I remember the "Congestion Charge Chaos" headlines when the congestion charge started in London), but no amount of complaining is going to stop it happening. Portugal HAS to make extra money, especially now it is indebted to the rest of the EU.
Predicting that something is going to be a bit of a farce during the early days is one thing, but it doesn't mean that honest car hire companies are going to suddenly start scamming thousands of tourist´s credit cards, resulting in them never returning to Portugal....
If you think that the transponder issue/return could be dealt with by the hire company - think again. The charges database will not be available to them (or if it is the Portuguese have found a loophole in data protection laws)"
OK, yes, when put like that, perhaps I am being overly optimistic about how it will work in reality.
Everything like this is chaotic until it settles (I remember the "Congestion Charge Chaos" headlines when the congestion charge started in London), but no amount of complaining is going to stop it happening. Portugal HAS to make extra money, especially now it is indebted to the rest of the EU.
Predicting that something is going to be a bit of a farce during the early days is one thing, but it doesn't mean that honest car hire companies are going to suddenly start scamming thousands of tourist´s credit cards, resulting in them never returning to Portugal....
Jul 15th 2011, 11:41 am
#284
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,980
Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
Goodness me, ease up on the doom and gloom......
"many of them get hit hard in their credit cards long after they have returned home"
Assuming that it will work like that is just "glass half empty" conjecture.
From what has been said officially, "visitors" to Portugal, including people hiring cars at Faro will pay a 27€ refundable deposit to hire a transponder, and be required to prepay 50€ at that time. When the transponder is returned, back at the airport, you get back your deposit, and any of the 50€ prepayment that hasn't been used. It's all in the Portugal News.
I accept that having to charge 77€ to your credit card on arrival is a bit unpleasant, but those that don't like it always have the option to stay in the UK and get cold and wet instead - at the end of the day the only money you actually pay is exactly the same as those of us that live here full time will pay for using the road.
Where it does get a bit daft is for the people in Spain who just want to pop over for the day.....messing about with transponders and deposits for a day trip is sure to be a pain....for people coming over for a couple of weeks, less so.
The tolls are happening.....so whatever our views on them we have two choices.....deal with it, or drive on the 125.
"many of them get hit hard in their credit cards long after they have returned home"
Assuming that it will work like that is just "glass half empty" conjecture.
From what has been said officially, "visitors" to Portugal, including people hiring cars at Faro will pay a 27€ refundable deposit to hire a transponder, and be required to prepay 50€ at that time. When the transponder is returned, back at the airport, you get back your deposit, and any of the 50€ prepayment that hasn't been used. It's all in the Portugal News.
I accept that having to charge 77€ to your credit card on arrival is a bit unpleasant, but those that don't like it always have the option to stay in the UK and get cold and wet instead - at the end of the day the only money you actually pay is exactly the same as those of us that live here full time will pay for using the road.
Where it does get a bit daft is for the people in Spain who just want to pop over for the day.....messing about with transponders and deposits for a day trip is sure to be a pain....for people coming over for a couple of weeks, less so.
The tolls are happening.....so whatever our views on them we have two choices.....deal with it, or drive on the 125.
Jul 15th 2011, 11:47 am
#285
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 770
Re: A22 Toll Road 15th April
"Agree with that, I think it will affect the already quieter East-Algarve. On the other hand it seems that the first set of camera´s & equipment is placed at Tavira so the first 25/30 km from the border will be free ???"
I'm not sure about that, I could have sworn I have seen a set at the Montegordo junction, but I may be wrong....
I'm not sure about that, I could have sworn I have seen a set at the Montegordo junction, but I may be wrong....