Be nice to OZ
#226
Re: Be nice to OZ
Yes, up late, cant sleep. Been living in London since August 2005. Grew up in Duncraig in Perth and am returning home in Feb this year. I was doing the two year working visa thing. I base my theories on what I observe around me, the fact that I teach in schools in this country and the fact that I read a couple of British newspapers each day. The newspapers vary, but I usually read The Times or The Observer, sometimes the Guardian or the Daily Mail. Just to prove I am not completely biased I think UK newspapers are awesome and I will miss sitting in a cafe and reading them after school. Since I have moved here, I have developed an intense dislike for the Blair government ( I thought he was doing a good job when I was in Oz, but TBH did not reseach the situation) I was last here in 1998 and had a great time - I was backpacking through Europe. I really dislike the schools here, even in outer London, the kids are rude and undisciplined, basically I just get through the day (though obviously make an effort with the kids as there are always nice ones too) The kids are harder and more grown up here. I found Aussie kids to be happier and healthier in general, and there are only a few tough ones in each year, rather than several in each class. The kids in Oz just seem to have more respect for their elders and each other. I really enjoyed teaching in WA and I was not at 'cushy schools'. I do not like the Human Rights Act (how convenient for Cherie Blair, a human rights lawyer!) I believe in teaching people their responsibilties first. The kids are full of their rights now, and no I did not see any evidence of this in OZ, but have been told this several times over here. Many english teachers just accept the poor behaviour as normal, or seem unwilling to help me out.
The level of anti-social behaviour seems higher in london ( I accept this may not be the case elsewhere in the UK, I have done a bit of travelling through the countryside.) One school I was at had the police turn up at the end of the day to supervise the kids going home. Never heard of this happening in Australia. It was a nightmare getting on the bus to go home from that school.
In the UK, yobbish behaviour has gotten so bad that a new political party has been formed called MUM's Army, which aims to stamp out this behaviour.
The UK just seems so crowded, and why is there such poor border control here.? Madness.
I could go on, but it is time for bed now.
The level of anti-social behaviour seems higher in london ( I accept this may not be the case elsewhere in the UK, I have done a bit of travelling through the countryside.) One school I was at had the police turn up at the end of the day to supervise the kids going home. Never heard of this happening in Australia. It was a nightmare getting on the bus to go home from that school.
In the UK, yobbish behaviour has gotten so bad that a new political party has been formed called MUM's Army, which aims to stamp out this behaviour.
The UK just seems so crowded, and why is there such poor border control here.? Madness.
I could go on, but it is time for bed now.
The UK has got crowded and there is a lot of anti social behaviour, certainly more than when I was growing up but you cannot go around making the kind of sweeping statements that you make, certainly not based on 17 months of living there.
#227
Re: Be nice to OZ
But what you were actually trying to do was blame Britian for it. It's not what we did but what we do now that separates us from the others. Some like Britian signed up to Kyoto and others like the USA and Oz didn't. Kyoto might not actually achieve much but at least it was a start in the right direction.
#228
Re: Be nice to OZ
No, I don't think Australia is perfect, at all, far from it. Crime occurs. Corruption occurs. Some Australians are rude/ignorant/idiots. There are boy racers. There are bushfires. There are some great things about the UK ie history, countryside. But I think Australia is being managed well, the people are confident and happy (on thw whole) and I think The UK is going down a slippery slope (mainly due to poor social policies) and some UK people on this forum are in denial about it.
I might also add that it took me some years to reach the conclusion I did about Australia (and the majority of Australians and their entrenched racism) My first years here were very happy. Your infinite wisdom seems to have manifested itself in 18mths, ex b/f issues aside.
If Australia was being managed that well it would be a member of G7 wouldn't it? As is, Australia just scrapes into G20.
Last edited by FPM; Jan 1st 2007 at 3:23 pm.
#229
Re: Be nice to OZ
My Uncle was until recently the deputy head of one of the foremost girls schools in London and I can assure you none of the behaviour you describe happens there or the rural suffolk school he now teaches at. When he taught in Tower Hamlets it was the case but I am comparing schools which are poles apart.
The UK has got crowded and there is a lot of anti social behaviour, certainly more than when I was growing up but you cannot go around making the kind of sweeping statements that you make, certainly not based on 17 months of living there.
The UK has got crowded and there is a lot of anti social behaviour, certainly more than when I was growing up but you cannot go around making the kind of sweeping statements that you make, certainly not based on 17 months of living there.
Top post
#231
Re: Be nice to OZ
I base my theories on what I observe around me, the fact that I teach in schools in this country and the fact that I read a couple of British newspapers each day.
I really dislike the schools here, even in outer London, the kids are rude and undisciplined, basically I just get through the day (though obviously make an effort with the kids as there are always nice ones too) The kids are harder and more grown up here. I found Aussie kids to be happier and healthier in general, and there are only a few tough ones in each year, rather than several in each class. The kids in Oz just seem to have more respect for their elders and each other. I really enjoyed teaching in WA and I was not at 'cushy schools'.
I really dislike the schools here, even in outer London, the kids are rude and undisciplined, basically I just get through the day (though obviously make an effort with the kids as there are always nice ones too) The kids are harder and more grown up here. I found Aussie kids to be happier and healthier in general, and there are only a few tough ones in each year, rather than several in each class. The kids in Oz just seem to have more respect for their elders and each other. I really enjoyed teaching in WA and I was not at 'cushy schools'.
The Expats on this board however, are comparing the ACADEMICS of the 2 systems. The general view on here is that kids in the UK are taught at a higher and more challenging level than OZ and the US. So as parents of hopefully well behaved children already, it makes sense that we would want the system that leaves them with a higher level of education when they finish school.
My kids here in Florida go to what is percieved as a great school. It is well maintained, the kids are great, the parental involvement is high. BUT, what is actually taught in the classroom? Well, in my case, not a lot. My kids have plodded along over the years. They are not being challenged. They are not being taught according to their abilities, but to the lowest ability kids. So in my opinion, behaviour problems aside, an education in the UK would be better than an education in the US or OZ.
#232
Re: Be nice to OZ
My kids here in Florida go to what is percieved as a great school. It is well maintained, the kids are great, the parental involvement is high. BUT, what is actually taught in the classroom? Well, in my case, not a lot. My kids have plodded along over the years. They are not being challenged. They are not being taught according to their abilities, but to the lowest ability kids. So in my opinion, behaviour problems aside, an education in the UK would be better than an education in the US or OZ.
#233
Re: Be nice to OZ
The Expats on this board however, are comparing the ACADEMICS of the 2 systems. The general view on here is that kids in the UK are taught at a higher and more challenging level than OZ and the US. My kids have plodded along over the years. They are not being challenged. They are not being taught according to their abilities, but to the lowest ability kids. So in my opinion, behaviour problems aside, an education in the UK would be better than an education in the US or OZ.
You cannot separate behaviour from everything else that happens in the classroom - the curriculum can be as challenging as you like but if the teacher is out in the corridor dealing with some little twerp who can't manage to stay in the room then what difference does it make?
Last edited by esperanza; Jan 2nd 2007 at 4:23 am.
#235
Re: Be nice to OZ
I find this interesting. It has always been my impression that kids in many UK schools are limited by the poor literacy & behaviour (often linked) of the weakest kids. I found that to be the case when I was at school myself, ten-fifteen years ago, and for the last few years as a teacher. One of the impressions I have (perhaps wrongly!) about the Aussie school system is that it seems to focus more on the behaviour/happiness of the kids than the UK system which seems obsessed with constant testing & assessment.
You cannot separate behaviour from everything else that happens in the classroom - the curriculum can be as challenging as you like but if the teacher is out in the corridor dealing with some little twerp who can't manage to stay in the room then what difference does it make?
You cannot separate behaviour from everything else that happens in the classroom - the curriculum can be as challenging as you like but if the teacher is out in the corridor dealing with some little twerp who can't manage to stay in the room then what difference does it make?
I am aware of that, which is why I said "behaviour problems aside". Most of us moving back would choose carefully which schools we send our kids to and try our hardest to avoid the worst ones. Inner city schools in London would not be on my list of possible places to send my kids, and I don't think anyone would willingly choose a school with a bad reputation. So assuming you avoid the classrooms with the worst behaviour, what is actually taught becomes the priority.
You're right in saying the Aussie (and US) focus is different to the UK focus, and that is exactly why this discussion goes round and round in circles with no end.
Denver just needs to accept that's the way it is in the UK and make the most of what time she has left there.
Last edited by ladyofthelake; Jan 2nd 2007 at 6:42 am.
#236
Re: Be nice to OZ
I am aware of that, which is why I said "behaviour problems aside". Most of us moving back would choose carefully which schools we send our kids to and try our hardest to avoid the worst ones. Inner city schools in London would not be on my list of possible places to send my kids, and I don't think anyone would willingly choose a school with a bad reputation. So assuming you avoid the classrooms with the worst behaviour, what is actually taught becomes the priority. .
(I don't mean you personally, I mean 'one')
#237
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 191
Re: Be nice to OZ
I might be jumping to conclusions here, but I would imagine that if you can afford to buy in the catchment area of a good school (or pay the fees for an indie, which might be cheaper!) then you will be able to get a good education for your child whichever country you are in.
(I don't mean you personally, I mean 'one')
(I don't mean you personally, I mean 'one')
I think it would be fair to say that most UK schools suffer from yobbish behaviour. Of course if you can afford to send your kid to Eton then you will get a great education.
On the other hand if you are living in the inner city, then the chances are you won't be getting a top notch education.
I know cos I went to a state school. And I aint got nuffin good to say about it. It was survival of the fittest at my school.
#239
#240
Re: Be nice to OZ
Dirk...really sorry about this mate, but I have to disagree with you about Eton!
I know 4 OE's who, I contract to, and they are all recovering drug addicts, alcoholics and are now compulsive gamblers and smoke like chimneys.................ALL bloody rich though!!! LOL
Burt
I know 4 OE's who, I contract to, and they are all recovering drug addicts, alcoholics and are now compulsive gamblers and smoke like chimneys.................ALL bloody rich though!!! LOL
Burt