Care in the UK, Do my parents have to sell house in France?
#16
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Posts: 6,148
re: Care in the UK, Do my parents have to sell house in France?
What happens if you're a home owner?
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles...sing-home-fees
If you own your home, it may be counted as capital 12 weeks after you move into a residential care or nursing home on a permanent basis. However, your home won't be counted as capital if any of the following people still live there:
- your husband, wife, partner or civil partner
- a close relative who is 60 or over, or incapacitated
- a close relative under the age of 16 who you're legally liable to support
- your ex-husband, ex-wife, ex-civil partner or ex-partner if they are a lone parent
#17
Re: Care in the UK, Do we have to sell house in France?
If the house belongs to your parents, and they need care, they need to sell it. Houses are assets (not "liquid assets" by the way) and have are currently the first source of funding care costs (down to 22K). It is not you paying care costs, it is your parents paying, as everyone else with some means does. If you have been in the UK 3 months plus you should be eligible for benefits?
Last edited by Shard; Sep 19th 2017 at 11:56 am.
#18
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Re: Care in the UK, Do we have to sell house in France?
If the house belongs to your parents, and they need care, they need to sell it. Houses are assets (not "liquid assets" by the way) and have are currently the first source of funding care costs (down to 22K). It is not you paying care costs, it is your parents paying, as everyone else with some means does. If you have been in the UK 3 months plus you should be eligible for benefits?
#20
Re: Care in the UK, Do we have to sell house in France?
If DayPerson wants to keep the house then they should buy it, getting their own mortgage presumably, and being careful to buy at a fair and full market/arms length price. Then "the family" can keep the house and it would simplify the mother's/parents' situation vis a vis paying for care and receiving benefits in the UK.
Last edited by Pulaski; Sep 19th 2017 at 12:18 pm.
#21
Re: Care in the UK, Do we have to sell house in France?
If DayPerson wants to keep the house then they should buy it, getting their own mortgage presumably, and being careful to buy at a fair and full market/arms length price. Then "the family" can keep the house and it would simplify the mother's/parents' situation visit arms vis paying for care and receiving benefits in the UK.
#23
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Re: Care in the UK, Do we have to sell house in France?
But the house is not in the UK, so how can they determine the value. From what I know it is not illegal to sell a house under market value. Maybe the house has a market value of 50K, so even buying it for 10K would be an option. Of course it's also a moral question.
#24
Re: Care in the UK, Do we have to sell house in France?
Based on my limited knowledge and the information the OP has given, here's my 2p worth. I'm just trying to bring a bit of clarity to the situation, and hopefully other posters can correct any points I get wrong (there's likely to be a few!)
Housing - much of this hinges on where in the UK the OP's parents choose to live. OP has said her parents would probably only get £100,000 for their house in France. It's certainly possible to buy much better than 'a rabbit hutch' in much of the Midlands and North of England for less than £100,000.
Benefits - UK citizens who have returned to live permanently and pass the habitual residence test do not have to wait 2 years for benefits, the wait to qualify is 3 months. As has been previously mentioned, it appears that the OP's parents holding onto their home in France may be the sticking point - in which case it needs to be sold.
If Dad bought himself and his wife a little place in an affordable part of the UK, both Mum and Dad would qualify for all benefits once it was deemed they were habitually resident in the UK. If Mum needed to be in a care home, the council would be obliged to fund this care. Dad could continue to live in the home. There would probably be a charge against the property, to be recovered when Mum and Dad passed away, but if that's what it takes for Mum to be looked after and Dad to get the income support he needs, then it appears to be a small price to pay and the only course of action possible.
If Mum was in a care home, the OP wouldn't need to be her carer anymore, thus freeing her up to look for work. If Mum didn't need a care home yet but has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, then there are allowances available for Mum and carer, plus council assistance for in home care.
After living in the UK since May, and with no property in another country, the OP should have well passed the HRT and be eligible to apply now for any benefit for which she qualifies.
Housing - much of this hinges on where in the UK the OP's parents choose to live. OP has said her parents would probably only get £100,000 for their house in France. It's certainly possible to buy much better than 'a rabbit hutch' in much of the Midlands and North of England for less than £100,000.
Benefits - UK citizens who have returned to live permanently and pass the habitual residence test do not have to wait 2 years for benefits, the wait to qualify is 3 months. As has been previously mentioned, it appears that the OP's parents holding onto their home in France may be the sticking point - in which case it needs to be sold.
If Dad bought himself and his wife a little place in an affordable part of the UK, both Mum and Dad would qualify for all benefits once it was deemed they were habitually resident in the UK. If Mum needed to be in a care home, the council would be obliged to fund this care. Dad could continue to live in the home. There would probably be a charge against the property, to be recovered when Mum and Dad passed away, but if that's what it takes for Mum to be looked after and Dad to get the income support he needs, then it appears to be a small price to pay and the only course of action possible.
If Mum was in a care home, the OP wouldn't need to be her carer anymore, thus freeing her up to look for work. If Mum didn't need a care home yet but has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, then there are allowances available for Mum and carer, plus council assistance for in home care.
After living in the UK since May, and with no property in another country, the OP should have well passed the HRT and be eligible to apply now for any benefit for which she qualifies.
Last edited by spouse of scouse; Sep 19th 2017 at 12:49 pm.
#25
Re: Care in the UK, Do we have to sell house in France?
They can sell the house at whatever price they want, but the council will make an assessment on whether the transaction was at fair market value and/or whether there was any attempt to under-report capital to them. The fact that it is overseas property is irrelevant.
#26
Re: Care in the UK, Do my parents have to sell house in France?
This thread has raised a lot of forseeable issues, so many that it almost warrants being distilled into a wiki or a sticky and posted in the Spain and France forums.
- the risks of buying a house that may be unsaleable at any reasonable price, especially in an "emergency"
- tying up most of your tangible net worth in a house, especially one that is potentially unsaleable, and even more so if you don't have relatively substantial income during retirement, enough to pay for end of life care, or insurance or a nest egg to pay for care
- living long term in a country and not speaking the language, the consequences, especially later in life can be disturbing
- expecting to return to the UK when your health declines and expecting "the government" is going to willingly pick up the tab without setting some reasonable hurdles
- the idea that on returning to the UK you somehow expect "the government" to step up with housing and "benefits". ..... When you retired to Spain, France, etc. you didn't expect the Spanish or French government to find you housing and give you a cash hand out. Therefore morally you have no right to expect housing and benefits when you decide that it is financially advantageous to return to the UK for residential care paid for by "the government."
- the risks of buying a house that may be unsaleable at any reasonable price, especially in an "emergency"
- tying up most of your tangible net worth in a house, especially one that is potentially unsaleable, and even more so if you don't have relatively substantial income during retirement, enough to pay for end of life care, or insurance or a nest egg to pay for care
- living long term in a country and not speaking the language, the consequences, especially later in life can be disturbing
- expecting to return to the UK when your health declines and expecting "the government" is going to willingly pick up the tab without setting some reasonable hurdles
- the idea that on returning to the UK you somehow expect "the government" to step up with housing and "benefits". ..... When you retired to Spain, France, etc. you didn't expect the Spanish or French government to find you housing and give you a cash hand out. Therefore morally you have no right to expect housing and benefits when you decide that it is financially advantageous to return to the UK for residential care paid for by "the government."
Last edited by Pulaski; Sep 19th 2017 at 1:09 pm.
#27
Re: Care in the UK, Do we have to sell house in France?
I don't the the rules around this in the UK, but certainly in Australia selling assets for less than their market value in order to be deemed eligible for income support payments is a big fat 'no'. With the amount of documentation involved there's no way to fake it either.
#28
Re: Care in the UK, Do we have to sell house in France?
I don't the the rules around this in the UK, but certainly in Australia selling assets for less than their market value in order to be deemed eligible for income support payments is a big fat 'no'. With the amount of documentation involved there's no way to fake it either.
Interestingly, if you recall before the election, Theresa May was proposing inheritance tax reforms which would have upped the capital you can keep threshold to 100K. Those policy ideas seemed to have fallen by the wayside, but there is some logic in it.
#29
Re: Care in the UK, Do we have to sell house in France?
It's the same in the UK. It would have to be or everyone would do it.
Interestingly, if you recall before the election, Theresa May was proposing inheritance tax reforms which would have upped the capital you can keep threshold to 100K. Those policy ideas seemed to have fallen by the wayside, but there is some logic in it.
Interestingly, if you recall before the election, Theresa May was proposing inheritance tax reforms which would have upped the capital you can keep threshold to 100K. Those policy ideas seemed to have fallen by the wayside, but there is some logic in it.
#30
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Re: Care in the UK, Do we have to sell house in France?