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Old Oct 31st 2017, 12:49 pm   #76
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

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The report said that decision was taken previously but they could have made the announcement another time. As much as I enjoy HOC it's hard to see how they could get more from it, and that's even without considering real White House life being more unbelievable than the fiction.
I hadn't managed to watch HOC yet!
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 12:54 pm   #77
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

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I hadn't managed to watch HOC yet!
Every bit as enjoyable as the original. I get lost in some of the election procedural stuff but it doesn't matter.

Back on Kevin Spacey coming out at this time...

If he'd left it a bit and then come out you can imagine the response would be "oh that explains the incident with the 14 year old boy"....now that would be propagating the myth.
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 1:10 pm   #78
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

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Every bit as enjoyable as the original. I get lost in some of the election procedural stuff but it doesn't matter.

Back on Kevin Spacey coming out at this time...

If he'd left it a bit and then come out you can imagine the response would be "oh that explains the incident with the 14 year old boy"....now that would be propagating the myth.
I wasn't aware of the myth in the first place. It does seem he is being vilified for the sake of news headlines.
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 1:48 pm   #79
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

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I thought Kevin Spacey's statement was pretty good. None of this "if offended, I'm sorry" malarkey.
It's still a bit of a qualified apology. "I don't remember, but if I did, I owe him an apology" and then going on to make sure to let us know that he was drunk, even though he can't remember the incident.

It's a rotten business - too many vain and arrogant people who believe in their own power, and too many people willing to degrade themselves for a shot at the big time.
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 2:05 pm   #80
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

Maybe he got drunk a lot and had sex with boys when drunk, that's why he can't remember the boy but can remember it being a time he would get drunk and then play around a bit ? Maybe ?
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 2:13 pm   #81
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

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It's still a bit of a qualified apology. "I don't remember, but if I did, I owe him an apology" and then going on to make sure to let us know that he was drunk, even though he can't remember the incident.
A bit qualified, yes, but it would still have been easy to say it didn't happen and I'm consulting my lawyer.

As for remembering being drunk but not the incident, the actor making the accusation said Spacey was drunk so there's no contradiction.

Unless there are more accusations about Spacey this might be one of those examples of something relatively minor and isolated trivialising the more major and multiple offence/offender.
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 2:46 pm   #82
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

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A bit qualified, yes, but it would still have been easy to say it didn't happen and I'm consulting my lawyer.

As for remembering being drunk but not the incident, the actor making the accusation said Spacey was drunk so there's no contradiction.

Unless there are more accusations about Spacey this might be one of those examples of something relatively minor and isolated trivialising the more major and multiple offence/offender.
I'm sure most of us have drunken barely-remembered sexual encounters in our past... but hopefully not with 14 year olds. THAT'S the crucial factor here. I wouldn't say that's relatively minor, no pun intended.
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 3:20 pm   #83
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...not with 14 year olds. THAT'S the crucial factor here. I wouldn't say that's relatively minor...
The accuser says Spacey tried to seduce him. That's fairly moderate language. So no force, no actual groping/touching up/kissing/no state of undress.

I'd say compared to what's been alleged about Weinstein and others including Polanski's admission, that's relatively minor.
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 3:44 pm   #84
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

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The accuser says Spacey tried to seduce him. That's fairly moderate language. So no force, no actual groping/touching up/kissing/no state of undress.

I'd say compared to what's been alleged about Weinstein and others including Polanski's admission, that's relatively minor.
I like Kevin Spacey, but I am not going to let that cloud my judgement that he tried to seduce a 14 year old child. The details of the attempted seduction are irrelevant; the fact that he thought it was OK to try is what is important.

Imagine your young teenager goes off into the care of a responsible adult - teacher, scout leader, whatever... and they tried to seduce them. You'd have no sympathy for the creep whatsover. Don't be starstruck just because you like the actor... that's exactly how they get away with this behaviour.
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 5:16 pm   #85
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...You'd have no sympathy for the creep whatsover. Don't be starstruck just because you like the actor....
It's not sympathy nor being starstruck. It's just small scale in the wider scheme. He made an advance and he was rejected and asked the kid if he was sure he wanted to leave. That's it. No threats of ruining a career, no promises of advancement. Nothing like that at all. He wasn't even a star at the time.

From the female journalist in the hand on knee controversy:
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the minister ‘repeatedly put his hand on my knee during a party conference dinner … I calmly and politely explained to him that, if he did it again, I would “punch him in the face”. He withdrew his hand … I have had no issues since with the man and do not regard the incident as anything but mildly amusing, which is why I have declined to name him.’

In the Sunday Express in 2009 she described how he had propositioned her. She wrote: ‘He was, he told me, a firm believer in the long-standing Westminster rule of … “party conferences don’t count”. I was, I told him, a firm believer in not going to bed with other women’s husbands.’

Last night, after Sir Michael had been named, Miss Hartley-Brewer tweeted: ‘Sigh. This “incident” happened in 2002. No one was remotely upset or distressed by it.’ ‘I believe it is absurd and wrong to treat workplace banter and flirting – and even misjudged sexual overtures – between consenting adults as being morally equivalent to serious sexual harassment or assault. It demeans genuine victims of real offences.
Slight difference in the consenting adults aspect, but I think it fairly well sums up my reluctance to wrap up these things all together as if they all the same.
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 6:03 pm   #86
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

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It's still a bit of a qualified apology. "I don't remember, but if I did, I owe him an apology" and then going on to make sure to let us know that he was drunk, even though he can't remember the incident.

It's a rotten business - too many vain and arrogant people who believe in their own power, and too many people willing to degrade themselves for a shot at the big time.
It's not about the business, it's a power dynamic that can be in any closed community/industry/household/city IMO

Also in case you had not caught up, many of these cases were rape and coercion. You're still blaming 'the business' and the women in it

Daryl Hannah -- https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...rvey-weinstein
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 6:24 pm   #87
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

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It's not sympathy nor being starstruck. It's just small scale in the wider scheme. He made an advance and he was rejected and asked the kid if he was sure he wanted to leave. That's it. No threats of ruining a career, no promises of advancement. Nothing like that at all. He wasn't even a star at the time.

From the female journalist in the hand on knee controversy:
Slight difference in the consenting adults aspect, but I think it fairly well sums up my reluctance to wrap up these things all together as if they all the same.
More than a 'slight difference' in the consenting adults aspect, as in the boy didn't consent (not that anything happened) and he wasn't an adult. What if the boy had said yes? Would that make Spacey less culpable? I don't understand how what Spacey did is in any way diminished just because the boy said no.

I'm less sympathetic to the boy for suggesting that it's traumatised him for 30 years yet he seems to have done little about it.

As for Julia H-B and Michael Fallon, it's a total non-story. It's just part and parcel of being adults in an environment like Westminster politics, which attracts the manipulative and encourages them to believe they are somehow special.
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 6:28 pm   #88
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

Labour activist 'warned' about pursuing rape claim - BBC News

Maybe this will change some of the misogynistic views on this forum - were these women also asking for it and complicit?

Wait, don't answer, I'm not even interested.

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Old Oct 31st 2017, 6:37 pm   #89
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

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More than a 'slight difference' in the consenting adults aspect, as in the boy didn't consent (not that anything happened) and he wasn't an adult. What if the boy had said yes? Would that make Spacey less culpable? I don't understand how what Spacey did is in any way diminished just because the boy said no
Because there was no force, no giving the boy drugs to make him compliant, no threats, no blackmail, no making it more difficult to refuse advances, no inducements offered, no photographs, no false pretenses...

However uneasy one may feel about it, it's just not the same level of behaviour as accusations about others.
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Old Oct 31st 2017, 6:43 pm   #90
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Default Re: Harvey Weinstein

Interesting that Jingsamichty feels that Spacey is a big bad wolf, but the women involved in the Weinstein case were unfortunate individuals who just wanted a shot at the big time - and perhaps somewhat/somehow sordid themselves.

It's attitudes like this that make it hard for women to come forward any time.

PS Spacey issue is the AGE of the seducee - nothing more, nothing less IMO

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