BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
Sep 2nd 2014, 9:19 pm
#76
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 232
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
I'm a bit at sea here. Being new here, I have absolutely no idea what workbooks would be suitable (or in line with what my son would be learning here), or where to get them from, or who to ask. I barely know anyone here so it's not as if I can easily talk to other parents about what they are doing.
And I'm not a teacher. I really don't relish the idea of home-schooling my child for a month. But I don't have a job yet, and I don't imagine that $40 a day will cover a private tutor...
ERGH.
And I'm not a teacher. I really don't relish the idea of home-schooling my child for a month. But I don't have a job yet, and I don't imagine that $40 a day will cover a private tutor...
ERGH.
Sep 2nd 2014, 9:31 pm
#78
"In cruce vincam"
Joined: May 2010
Location: Mill Bay, Vancouver Island
Posts: 3,232
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
[QUOTE=Novocastrian;11390410]I don't think being young and eager is much of a recipe for being good teacher. I'd suggest experience is rather more the thing to look for.
On another point, Mr. Google tells me that there were 550,000 children in the BC public schools in 2012. Let's assume the most of them are not single children which might mean 300,000 families with kids in school.
So the $40 per day the the BC gov is offering parents means about $12m per day or $60m per week if it lasts week.
How is this fiscally prudent?[/QUOTE]
I can only speak from my own experience, but over the last few years, I have (honestly) NEVER seen any of the senior teachers at an after school concert, play or musical put on by the kids. My 7 year old's teacher from last academic year has 1 year left to retirement. She didn't even attend the junior sports day until it was time for the kids to go back into class; just handed them over to the PE organisers and volunteer parents. Last year's student teacher was "awesome" and "great at running"! I actually went on a couple of field trips with him and the enthusiasm he displayed was lovely to see. He's one of last year's crop of student teachers mentioned in a previous post who's working in a local Bistro to get by. I would employ him over "Mrs Retiring Cardigan" in a heartbeat.
On another point, Mr. Google tells me that there were 550,000 children in the BC public schools in 2012. Let's assume the most of them are not single children which might mean 300,000 families with kids in school.
So the $40 per day the the BC gov is offering parents means about $12m per day or $60m per week if it lasts week.
How is this fiscally prudent?[/QUOTE]
I can only speak from my own experience, but over the last few years, I have (honestly) NEVER seen any of the senior teachers at an after school concert, play or musical put on by the kids. My 7 year old's teacher from last academic year has 1 year left to retirement. She didn't even attend the junior sports day until it was time for the kids to go back into class; just handed them over to the PE organisers and volunteer parents. Last year's student teacher was "awesome" and "great at running"! I actually went on a couple of field trips with him and the enthusiasm he displayed was lovely to see. He's one of last year's crop of student teachers mentioned in a previous post who's working in a local Bistro to get by. I would employ him over "Mrs Retiring Cardigan" in a heartbeat.
Sep 2nd 2014, 9:34 pm
#79
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
I can only speak from my own experience, but over the last few years, I have (honestly) NEVER seen any of the senior teachers at an after school concert, play or musical put on by the kids. My 7 year old's teacher from last academic year has 1 year left to retirement. She didn't even attend the junior sports day until it was time for the kids to go back into class; just handed them over to the PE organisers and volunteer parents. Last year's student teacher was "awesome" and "great at running"! I actually went on a couple of field trips with him and the enthusiasm he displayed was lovely to see. He's one of last year's crop of student teachers mentioned in a previous post who's working in a local Bistro to get by. I would employ him over "Mrs Retiring Cardigan" in a heartbeat.
Sep 2nd 2014, 9:55 pm
#80
"In cruce vincam"
Joined: May 2010
Location: Mill Bay, Vancouver Island
Posts: 3,232
Sep 2nd 2014, 9:58 pm
#81
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Sep 2nd 2014, 10:20 pm
#82
"In cruce vincam"
Joined: May 2010
Location: Mill Bay, Vancouver Island
Posts: 3,232
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
Hey - I've just realised - I've just "earned" $80!! More than some teachers have today.
Sep 2nd 2014, 10:27 pm
#83
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
That makes sense, though: the point of a picket line is to prevent (or shout abuse at) people crossing it. If nobody's going to try to go to school because it's the holidays, stands to reason that there's no purpose in picketing it. 
And besides, they probably all wanted to bugger off to their summer residences in Normandy
And besides, they probably all wanted to bugger off to their summer residences in Normandy
I am only familiar with a few strikes and all in the private sector, and those unions had people out 24/7 on the picket line during the entire strike.
I don't think being young and eager is much of a recipe for being good teacher. I'd suggest experience is rather more the thing to look for.
On another point, Mr. Google tells me that there were 550,000 children in the BC public schools in 2012. Let's assume the most of them are not single children which might mean 300,000 families with kids in school.
So the $40 per day the the BC gov is offering parents means about $12m per day or $60m per week if it lasts week.
How is this fiscally prudent?
On another point, Mr. Google tells me that there were 550,000 children in the BC public schools in 2012. Let's assume the most of them are not single children which might mean 300,000 families with kids in school.
So the $40 per day the the BC gov is offering parents means about $12m per day or $60m per week if it lasts week.
How is this fiscally prudent?
From a student perspective based on my experience as a student, older teachers with the experience we never willing to teach, where the younger teachers were still eager to do their job. Experience is worthless if the person with it isn't willing to share it and actually teach. (this is an opinion based on my experiences as a student, and is not intended to be taken as research on the topic.) I do know academically I did better in classes with younger teachers.
I have no bone in this fight, and I don't agree with either side, both are being difficult and creating more of a mess then they need to.
Last edited by scrubbedexpat091; Sep 2nd 2014 at 10:31 pm.
Sep 2nd 2014, 10:43 pm
#84
"In cruce vincam"
Joined: May 2010
Location: Mill Bay, Vancouver Island
Posts: 3,232
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
Suppose so, other then they are never in front of the school here, always on the side walk on the main road trying to get cars to honk, anyone can get past them into the school....lol..
I am only familiar with a few strikes and all in the private sector, and those unions had people out 24/7 on the picket line during the entire strike.
It's not financially prudent, and I never thought or said it was, however the government isn't willing to drop certain items off the table, and neither is the union, so no agreement will be made until both sides start to drop things they other doesn't want, or come to some sort of agreeable terms.
From a student perspective based on my experience as a student, older teachers with the experience we never willing to teach, where the younger teachers were still eager to do their job. Experience is worthless if the person with it isn't willing to share it and actually teach. (this is an opinion based on my experiences as a student, and is not intended to be taken as research on the topic.) I do know academically I did better in classes with younger teachers.
I have no bone in this fight, and I don't agree with either side, both are being difficult and creating more of a mess then they need to.
I am only familiar with a few strikes and all in the private sector, and those unions had people out 24/7 on the picket line during the entire strike.
It's not financially prudent, and I never thought or said it was, however the government isn't willing to drop certain items off the table, and neither is the union, so no agreement will be made until both sides start to drop things they other doesn't want, or come to some sort of agreeable terms.
From a student perspective based on my experience as a student, older teachers with the experience we never willing to teach, where the younger teachers were still eager to do their job. Experience is worthless if the person with it isn't willing to share it and actually teach. (this is an opinion based on my experiences as a student, and is not intended to be taken as research on the topic.) I do know academically I did better in classes with younger teachers.
I have no bone in this fight, and I don't agree with either side, both are being difficult and creating more of a mess then they need to.
I agree with all you say here. It's such a shame the intransigence has been taken so far neither side feels able/prepared to take a pragmatic re-visit of the issues.
Sep 2nd 2014, 11:02 pm
#85
slanderer of the innocent
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 6,695
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
Nothing in terms of negotiation went on through the Summer. It seems the teachers expected they would be legislated back to work and so would at least take their existing (generous) salaries and benefits' packages. They could then begin striking again next June. The Government has said "enough". Let's sort this once and for all (ish).
I never thought I was particularly anti-union and could generally see the arguments for both sides - especially if I wasn't involved in any way. But this situation - with no end in sight - is really starting to annoy me. I don't really care about the "he said, she said", at least have the professionalism to all get back to the table and try at being grownups.
I never thought I was particularly anti-union and could generally see the arguments for both sides - especially if I wasn't involved in any way. But this situation - with no end in sight - is really starting to annoy me. I don't really care about the "he said, she said", at least have the professionalism to all get back to the table and try at being grownups.
I find people outside of BC have no understanding of how long this has gone on. So over it I can't even.
Sep 3rd 2014, 1:50 am
#86
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Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,953
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
Sep 3rd 2014, 3:37 pm
#87
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: West Vancouver
Posts: 106
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
Some of the teachers in West Vancouver are offering out of school classes for $40 per child 9-12 each day.
Sep 3rd 2014, 4:22 pm
#88
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 105
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
The appeal will start this October. It can take up to a year for the ruling. No matter who wins, it's likely the losing party will take it to the Supreme Court of Canada, a process that could take between 2 to 5 years. If this is road we're going down, this won't be solved until 2018-2020, a long 16-18 years of unrest. That's too long.
Really, the whole thing needs to be sent to independent, unrestricted binding arbitration. The BC Liberals will be unlikely to do this because they have been burned in the past with binding arbitration (see Stephen Smart's analysis with CBC).
The last time the province did that was in 2001, when a dispute over pay rates for B.C. doctors was handed over to arbitration. The result was an expensive ruling in the doctors’ favour and a major bill for taxpayers. The government dealt with that bill by raising the provincial sales tax to pay for it, and it has not agreed to binding arbitration since.
From Justice Griffin's ruling based on testimony and redacted government documents:
[383] The government saw that the failure of the two negotiating tables could be a useful political opportunity for it. As early as June 2011, the government was considering a strategy of a combined legislative response to an expected teachers' strike...
[384] The government thought that a teachers strike would give the government a political advantage in imposing legislation that the public might otherwise not support.
[384] The government thought that a teachers strike would give the government a political advantage in imposing legislation that the public might otherwise not support.
[635] I find that an appropriate damages award, serving the functions of compensation, vindication, and deterrence, but without being so large as to unduly take from the public purse and other public programs, is $2 million awarded to the BCTF as the bargaining agent representing teachers.
610: The result will be to return the Working Conditions clauses to the collective agreement effective as of July 1, 2002, as already noted, and I find that whatever labour relations grievances and remedies flow from this will be a sufficient remedy in respect of that piece of the legislation.
610: The result will be to return the Working Conditions clauses to the collective agreement effective as of July 1, 2002, as already noted, and I find that whatever labour relations grievances and remedies flow from this will be a sufficient remedy in respect of that piece of the legislation.
Either way, this isn't fair to the students, parents, and yes, even teachers who are trying their best to support education in BC as this fight is going on. Really, this needs to be solved soon, and independent, unrestricted binding arbitration might just be the best way.
Sep 3rd 2014, 5:07 pm
#89
"In cruce vincam"
Joined: May 2010
Location: Mill Bay, Vancouver Island
Posts: 3,232
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
It started in 2002 with the stripped contracts (BCTF, HEU). HEU fought theirs first up to the Supreme Court of Canada. It won. BCTF followed with their case. With the higher court's ruling, BCTF won in the BC Supreme Court. It won a follow up ruling with the BC Supreme Court this spring when it argued the BC government didn't address its first ruling. Against legal advice, the BC government chose to appeal the second ruling (note: even the right-wing BC Conservative Party recently announced that the appeal should be dropped).
The appeal will start this October. It can take up to a year for the ruling. No matter who wins, it's likely the losing party will take it to the Supreme Court of Canada, a process that could take between 2 to 5 years. If this is road we're going down, this won't be solved until 2018-2020, a long 16-18 years of unrest. That's too long.
Really, the whole thing needs to be sent to independent, unrestricted binding arbitration. The BC Liberals will be unlikely to do this because they have been burned in the past with binding arbitration (see Stephen Smart's analysis with CBC).
Neither would binding arbitration be popular with the BCTF. It feels that it has won back the full language of their stripped contracts. (See this analysis from a former Crown prosecutor)
From Justice Griffin's ruling based on testimony and redacted government documents:
and Justice Griffin awarded the following:
Don't be fooled by the presentation of this as a case of simple wages and benefits. Really, this is all about the BC Supreme Court ruling and its ramifications.
Either way, this isn't fair to the students, parents, and yes, even teachers who are trying their best to support education in BC as this fight is going on. Really, this needs to be solved soon, and independent, unrestricted binding arbitration might just be the best way.
The appeal will start this October. It can take up to a year for the ruling. No matter who wins, it's likely the losing party will take it to the Supreme Court of Canada, a process that could take between 2 to 5 years. If this is road we're going down, this won't be solved until 2018-2020, a long 16-18 years of unrest. That's too long.
Really, the whole thing needs to be sent to independent, unrestricted binding arbitration. The BC Liberals will be unlikely to do this because they have been burned in the past with binding arbitration (see Stephen Smart's analysis with CBC).
Neither would binding arbitration be popular with the BCTF. It feels that it has won back the full language of their stripped contracts. (See this analysis from a former Crown prosecutor)
From Justice Griffin's ruling based on testimony and redacted government documents:
and Justice Griffin awarded the following:
Don't be fooled by the presentation of this as a case of simple wages and benefits. Really, this is all about the BC Supreme Court ruling and its ramifications.
Either way, this isn't fair to the students, parents, and yes, even teachers who are trying their best to support education in BC as this fight is going on. Really, this needs to be solved soon, and independent, unrestricted binding arbitration might just be the best way.
Sep 3rd 2014, 5:15 pm
#90
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 105
Re: BC gov offers $40 per day to parents during strike
You can't blame the teachers if they are reluctant to make the same choice again.
Last edited by chan_konabe; Sep 3rd 2014 at 5:18 pm.