Rodi

Yes we have options and are luckier than many and for that I am grateful. But that doesn't mean the haze is any less frustrating since I genuinely believe it's controllable with real effort from citizens and officials but I lack the power as a visitor and and an expat to speak out the way I could and would if this was a California problem. You gotta admit it's sheer insanity since every single fire is intentionally set and condoned by the companies that set them. There are better ways to cultivate the land for Palm that can still allow profits but not harm three countries citizenry.

Davita

Living in Asia for foreigners to the region creates hundreds of frustrations one lives with every day and attempts to remedy but, in the final analysis, still prefer to live in Asia.
For example, the farmer has just razed the stalks of the sawa in front of my house to prepare for a new planting...it was smoky and I have flu'...so I went to the pub for a few beers until the smoke disappeared.
In Bali there is an expression called 'namaste'. I suggest you practice it or you will be more miserable...even when the haze dissipates.

InVinoVeritas

Rodi, my friend, you should go back to the States; it's not necessary for an American to share the miseries which the rest of the world has to endure. (Plus the IRS would delighted to see you again).

Rodi

Yeah we know what Namaste is. We are experienced yoga students. It refers to a blissful state of mind that one can't achieve while trying to do yoga in Un breathable air. And it has nothing to do with Indonesia or Bali. All the inconveniences of Asia are acceptable as long as they are not a daily detriment that shortens one's lifespan.

On that note, let me reiterate why I believe this is so insane. Today's paper says four million students and 7000 schools across the nation are shut down for two days. Meanwhile in the next article, you'll find the grand leader on his continuous Private jet tour of the earth, this time telling his citizens from Milan that "only Indonesia can solve this problem". Ok let's examine the differences here between east and west. As messed up as gun loving America may be, this lack of a sky and health emergency would trigger major media and public reactions, someone would be forced to step down from office and at least there would be some kind of a concerted effort to make it better. In Asia, the masses simply don't exercise their suppose democratic rights to demand better and NEVER HOLD ANYONE ACCOUNTABLE. Instead they simply deny education to their kids which takes ten steps backwards in their ridiculous claim that the nation is almost "fully developed". The already sagging currency won't be helped by the loss of millions of dollars as commerce slows or stops, businesses lose as people stay indoors and they spend more money "monitoring the situation".

China is one thing. That is a dictatorship disguised as capitalism. This nation has a constitution. Too bad it doesn't use it to make some real changes that can improve everyone's quality of life and would actually show the world (and the investors) that it's worthy of being "developed"

Rodi

<br /><br />
FYI: Americans file tax returns their whole lives no matter what country they live in as long as they remain citizens so the IRS could care less if I e-file from California or Zimbabwe. <br /><br />
<br /><br />
You are correct that I made a horrible error in judgement even though I was aware of the haze issue. Like most things, it's simply not believable unless you live it. We are not going back to the USA because we'd have to go back to work and didn't scrimp and save for 15 years to give up and go running back to the cubicle. I will finish out our lease and find another option next year. Even my wife hates this and she never complains about anything (yes, opposites attract).<br /><br />
<br /><br />
One would think it would be a minor inconvenience but it's painfully obvious that the winds won't shift, it's not raining despite this being the statistical wettest month of the year and nature simply can't fix all of mankind's evils by itself without help. That help can only come from the Financial sector. Perhaps if every Palm oil producer was find 7 billion like Volkswagen just was for illegally making faulty emissions on cars for US production they might think twice about actually doing real controlled burns outside of the peat land or spend some cash in r &amp; d and examine alternate ways of clearing land for Palm production. But that won't happen in my lifetime.

Power corrupts in a way you and I can't understand and those that have it will do virtually anything to keep it. Which only leaves the power of the citizens, the media and even social media to exert meaningful pressure. Short of the west finding a better material besides Palm, the economics will always trump the practicality of poisoning 80 million people

BEVS

As you will see, I have moved further posts over from the Lazy Hazy thread.

Here is a BBC article about the issue of burning and palm oil.

Gunnar45

Seems it is improving...
So soon the issue will be forgotten until it suddenly pops up next year again.
Air Pollution in Malaysia: Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Map

the troubadour

A very important issue though, that should be broadcast, in order that potential retirees have an awareness of what they are getting into.
Anyone with any sort of bronchial complaint needs to know the facts.
It does appear issues which voice negatives be in government politics or health impairments like the smoke issue are either not welcome or simply glossed over on this Malaysia site.

Rodi

With all due respect to everyone, I implore you all to read the article below that is from the world's most respected scientific agency. This year is headed to break 1997's 9 billion dollar disaster thanks to El Niño. Those that choose to simply ignore this and say it will go away are just kidding themselves

Indonesian fires sending haze across south-east Asia could become worst on record, NASA warns - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-02/indonesia-forest-fires-could-become-worst-on-record-nasa-warns/6824460

Gunnar45

Yes, the haze is very bad this year, no doubt!
What I meant is that it (sadly) may be forgotten until the next season comes.

Regarding 'the troubadour's feeling that the forum promotes the 'glossing over' of negative comments, I believe this is a forum where participants can post their opinions about just any issue which they may find important.
We who reside here may however be reluctant with getting involved in discussions about local politics and may wish to stay out of such debates.
Same would go for opinions and generalizations on who is to blame for man-made or other natural disasters.

But I don't believe that the information itself, that there indeed are problems like the haze, landslides, flooding, dengue fever, etc in any way is 'not liked' or 'glossed over'.

meinkl

1997 saw haze so bad that planes had to stack at 5000 feet above Subang airport and land on instruments like a fogbound Heathrow does. Since then it has had good and bad years... 2015 is above average but not the worst i have seen.

The unfortunate fact is that fires in this region have been an annual occurence, part natural fires during dry season elsewhere, part made worse by farmers in Indonesia using cut and burn. (as they have done in parts of Malaysia until banned)
Malaysia has previously sent firefighters to assist and I agree that the upgrading monies for haze measurment would be better spent putting out the fires that can be controlled, but there is no "money" in such usage.
They tried "cloud seeding" one year, but couldnt find any clouds to seed on the days they had the planes available.

But the fact remains that there has, is and will be some months of the year when SEA gets haze, just like months when Australia & US have bush fire seasons. Just like Hawai has lava flows, Just like UK gets ice and snow.
I have yet to find somewhere in the world that has perfect climate all year, perfect culture, low cost of living, perfect politics, perfect food .... i believe there are some remote islands somewhere like that, but have yet to find .... the journey of discovery is, however, worthwhile.

JC3

Very well put Gunnar. I agree entirely.

JC3

InVinoVeritas

A good point Meinkl. I remember as a kid in London we had the smog most winters. It took a long time before we got the Clean Air Act and people stopped burning coal. Holland and Germany suffered from the consequences of UK industrial pollution for many more years after that. These things take time and there are many adjustments which affect the people. It may be tough for an asthmatic American looking for a cheap place to live to accept this state of affairs but it's the people who were born here and live here and vote here who have the right to shout and be heard. Anyone else should just move on.

InVinoVeritas

I do understand the way the American tax system works. I was thinking you could work a little longer (15 years is not very long at all) and then you could afford to retire in the US. In the meantime the IRS could use you tax dollars to pay down the country's debt.

columbine

Another alternative is to go some where in Asia or S.E.A. for a couple of months during the Haze period;-)