stargate1234

Yes, The elephant in the room......

I have picked out a couple of links regarding the situation today in Hungary. I am sure they will interest many ex-pats living here and also people who may be thinking of moving here. This is not a chance for a political debate as the facts are very clear to everybody, not only on TV, newspapers, radio or other social media but in everyday living in Hungary.
This thread is not a government bashing ploy. If you think the present situation in Hungary is o.k...then thats fine and views are respected. If you think Hungary is heading in the wrong direction, then thats fine too.
The links are for informational purposes and don't necessarily reflect on point of view, but all sensible contributions are welcome.....

As it appears we are dotted all over Hungary so it would be interesting and helpful if anyone has experienced problems related to the two links below.
regardless of any political stand-point



https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...t-viktor-orban



https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...gee-referendum

blackwaterman

I have very mixed feelings about all this. On one side, an authoritarian society is what makes Hungary attractive to many. In UK and many other countries, the excesses of 'democracy' have proven to lead to quite ugly scenarios. Speaking very generally (a dangerous pastime) why isn't there litter all over the streets, vandalised park benches and gangs of feral, drunken yobs roaming about in Hungary?
However, it's clear that Viktor Orban is cosying up to Mr Putin in the shape of the Paks nuclear power huge contracts to constuct 2 new reactors, and also strongly supports him in dropping EU sanctions against Russia (not saying it's good or bad). I wouldn't mind betting that Orban's hedged his bets about gas pipeline construction too. Hungarians I've spoken to seem to view Russian occupation as fairly benevolent, much as in UK we have US bases without much protest
As a leading voice in the Visegrad countries against uncontrolled immigration Orban does ask why muscular, strong young men should leave their ruined countries and families only to visit the same fate upon their new hosts, even if only a minority do this. Hungarians are, I think, collectively afraid of such an outcome, and resent taxpayer's money being directed towards these demands when so evidently the taxpayers themselves exisit close to poverty, if not in it.
Politicians the world over have only one desire...to remain in power, and Orban's no different. The EU has found ways to bypass the will of the (small) people whilst giving the appearance of democracy and these appear little different to having the Russian bear in the country.

stargate1234

You make some valid points Blackwaterman. Its a difficult call this "liberalism" and "illiberalism" . Vandalism of infrastructure is quite rare in Hungary..non-existent where I live and the crime rate is faily low too, restricted to burglary and petty crime though I imagine there are bigger fish out there ?.. I agree about your excesses of 'democracy' point... In the last two years I have noticed a stronger presence of police on patrol, more speed traps and on-the-spot checks. This is not necessarily a bad thing but coming from England its a bit disconcerting being pulled over and questioned by policeman with a gun. I have to say I find most policemen here quite arrogant. I should also say that I feel very safe in Hungary. I have never had any bother here with anybody.
The immigration problem is a difficult one, I guess I'm still on the fence on this one. I understand both arguments but I feel a properly vetted immigration could be beneficial for Hungary and would 1300 immigrants make that much difference here ?...
I don't like nor trust Putin. (best left there really). Its a shame Mr Orban has found a friend in him. Hungary is the 5th most corrupt country in the OECD countries. That to me is a worrying stat....but corruption is rife in most countries, dare I say.
anyway..the whole worlds a bit mad at the moment....

FenTiger

The political climate does worry me in some ways but having family and close friends in Hungary we see a different perspective. The current government is not representative of the average Hungarian's view but I do see in some of them deep routed discrimination against particular people. Suffice to say the average Hungarian wants to protect their identity. You have to remember Hungary's border shrunk quite a bit and there's about 2 million Hungarians living on the other side of the border. They face alot of discrimination because they want to retain their Hungarian identity.

blackwaterman

Yes, there's lots of bitterness and resentment about the Trianon Treaty...but that's the way things are for the moment, something which regret and bitterness aren't at all effective in changing. There's no doubt in my mind that Hungary could benefit greatly from a measured amount of immigration and some business sources reckon it's essential in order to provide the skills being lost as Hungarians flee their own country to seek adequately-paid work. The problem just now is that immigration controls have been swamped by sheer numbers, and nobody has a clue even where to repatriate those who are rejected, because documents are destroyed/ lost/ never issued. As for European immigrant workers, I don't see Hungary as a particularly attractive location in which to advance the average worker's career. In fact it's a mystery to me how the average worker can support their families at all in such a heavily taxed economy. In this respect, the language itself, national pride and patriotism so encouraged by politicians, serves only to hinder the ambitious leaver. In Wales and Scotland, where Gaelic is encouraged, it stands beside a more universally-accepted language used in commerce. Except for very able students, this doesn't happen to an adequate degree in Hungary, where I believe, foreign language skills are taught very formally rather than vernacular or everyday speech. It doesn't enable workers to leave easily!
The commercial practises in Hungary are astonishingly archaic and quite unnecessarily bureaucratic. Computers have served only to add to the workload instead of replacing mountains of paperwork. Except, of course, when the government want to collect taxes e.g. the online vignette system, with which I was quite impressed when video cameras swiftly checked my car against their online system at a motorway service station exit!
Voter apathy and discord serve only to perpetuate elected politicians and the status quo, encouraging them to do little to reform matters. To call the pace of change glacial is an exaggeration. However, I suppose it's all part of the general pace of life and maybe even part of the attraction.

stargate1234

As you say, most of the people last summer didn't want to come to Hungary they were heading for Western Europe, Germany France UK etc....I think that's why many people were surprised at the Hungarian governments reaction when all everybody wanted was transit.
Trianon is still a thorn in Hungary's side and I understand it, as in essence , it was a punishment by the allies that should have lasted only 50 years. That 50 years has now passed and Hungary doesn't seem to be that bothered about it except celebrating it every year.
Hungary must stem the tide of people going abroad to work as I think it will lead to disaster for Hungary. I am not sure if the present government is capable of achieving this although they have made efforts...to little too late maybe ?...
I do think that Hungarians are fed up with politics and, judging by some of the interviews I've seen on tv, don't really understand it, especially in the countryside. I suppose you could say that about the UK as well...

duztee

Perhaps an important point is how old are you and do you have kids?
If like me you are really old and don't have any offspring to worry about then the long term future is not that important.
As things stand at the moment Hungary suits me just fine, so I will live for today and worry about tomorrow only if I live long enough for it to be an issue.
I have just returned from 2 weeks in the UK and the horrendous traffic congestion was just one of the things which reminded me why I am glad I don't live there now.
So for us oldies it is more a case of day to day differences between the countries that matter.

enter

On an upnote wehey!!!, we love it here in Hungary and have no intention to return to the UK.

scot47

Revocation of the Treaty of Trianon is about as likely as Revocation of the Traety of Versailles.

stargate1234

Hi Dustee.
You make some good points too, I left the UK 18 years ago and have been here in Hungary all that time. I too get disappointed when I go back. My brother is a driver for a car company and the nightmares he tells me about !!!!! Good Lord. Wether your old or young its wise to live in the present.

Hi enter
Thats great news !...hope it continues...


Hi Scot 47
I think you are right...The Trianon treaty has No / slim chance of revocation, and slims just left town !
But then shouldn't Hungary put it behind them now ?...maybe thats a bit hard ?..

wolfi

Re Trianon:

You shouldn't forget that even at the last official census in around 1910 there were only less than 15 million self proclaimed Hungarians among the 30 million inhabitants ...

And anyway the EU "guarantees" existing borders.

If you want a different view on Hungarian politics you might visit politics.hu or
Hungarian Spectrum.

FenTiger

I completely agree about the traffic congestion.
You may have seen on the news last Monday evening/night, Halloween, hundreds of bikers riding through town centres and even on pavements scaring pedestrians. One organiser of one of these events claimed to be raising money for charity .... but surely .... the way they were behaving was ridiculous. Quite a few were intent on injuring people and a couple of guys let off fireworks targeted at police vans! One such rocket hit a lamp post and riocheted hitting an eight year old girl. It burnt a hole in her clothes! Horrendous .... what is UK coming to?

scrubbedexpat142

Ditto!

Thairetired2016

I've been following the Hungary forum for some time as Hungary was at one time a retirement possibility.

All over Europe there is press which creates fear with articles like in Guardian, other sources support the right. Why has the right suddenly so much support? There must be a reason. Both lines of political direction have their own agenda. The citizens have to decide which direction they want to follow. In 50 years of living outside my native European country I have learnt not to be interested in my host countries' politics. Once my hosts' politics start restricting my daily life considerably I will move on. I never tie myself down with property, I rent.
Would Hungarian politics worry me? No. It is for Hungarians to worry or not to worry, not for guests.
I consider myself lucky that I can afford to live away from my native country. In my chosen location I can walk home at night without having to fear being mugged or pushed down escalators etc. In Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Paris etc.?