Leaving the EU.
Nov 17th 2015, 11:16 am
#16
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: Leaving the EU.
Well, I'm not convinced the "will of the people" will have much to do with it. Surely the evidence so far isn't consistent with that.
The chronic crises of the EU have forced the EU to assume central control of a number of what were previously sovereign held rights.
For those in the Eurozone, following the debt crisis, the EU (ECB) necessarily assumed far more economic policy control, literally, taking far more control of sovereign budgets than ever before. Nobody voted for this, it was a basic necessity, which (as a side-effect) puts the EU in a far more central governance role - with respect to the economy anyway.
The migrant crisis is another example. No member state can solve this crisis in any sovereign way. Only the EU can effectively solve EU border control.
K
As you can see, each member state has a bit different view of how they manage their borders. And that will never work, unless the EU abandons schengen, which, frankly, is a key component of the whole European project. It won't give up schengen, but what it will do (I believe), out of pure necessity, is to implement a more "federal" style of border control, more or less assuming control of Europe's fringe borders, and removing (or greatly diminishing) that responsibility from sovereign state control.
And again, nobody will "vote" for this. It will simply be the only way to solve the problem.
Again, I suspect that one day, Europe will just wake up and realise it has become the "Federal Republic of Europe" it was always intended to be, without a fight, without a vote, but just because there wasn't any other way to solve each crisis.
And Britain... well, becoming a province of the Federal Republic of Europe is not in Britain's future. Wrong DNA.
The chronic crises of the EU have forced the EU to assume central control of a number of what were previously sovereign held rights.
For those in the Eurozone, following the debt crisis, the EU (ECB) necessarily assumed far more economic policy control, literally, taking far more control of sovereign budgets than ever before. Nobody voted for this, it was a basic necessity, which (as a side-effect) puts the EU in a far more central governance role - with respect to the economy anyway.
The migrant crisis is another example. No member state can solve this crisis in any sovereign way. Only the EU can effectively solve EU border control.
K
As you can see, each member state has a bit different view of how they manage their borders. And that will never work, unless the EU abandons schengen, which, frankly, is a key component of the whole European project. It won't give up schengen, but what it will do (I believe), out of pure necessity, is to implement a more "federal" style of border control, more or less assuming control of Europe's fringe borders, and removing (or greatly diminishing) that responsibility from sovereign state control.
And again, nobody will "vote" for this. It will simply be the only way to solve the problem.
Again, I suspect that one day, Europe will just wake up and realise it has become the "Federal Republic of Europe" it was always intended to be, without a fight, without a vote, but just because there wasn't any other way to solve each crisis.
And Britain... well, becoming a province of the Federal Republic of Europe is not in Britain's future. Wrong DNA.
This also applies to their way of solving the migrant crisis. If certain countries don't want them they simply won't take them and I doubt if EU threats of penalties will have any effect at all other than cause them further offence and drive an even bigger wedge between national govts and the EU.
I see Poland is yet another country which has just made its position clear by refusing to accept its intended EU quota of immigrants.
As for Schengen, it may continue to exist, but in name only.
With even bigger inflows of migrants expected over the next couple of years, the so called existing temporary measures look set to appear much more permanent and continue well into the future.
Apr 7th 2016, 8:49 am
#17
Just Joined
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 9
Re: Leaving the EU.
It is important to ensure you are registered to vote for the Brexit referendum. Expats in the EU have very little to gain from an exit and a lot at risk . This is the website to register to vote: https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote
Cheers
Cheers
Apr 9th 2016, 12:53 pm
#18
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Now Devon
Posts: 951
Re: Leaving the EU.
I don't wish to upset anyone, but I don't believe that anyone living in another country should be able to vote on anything concerning what is best for those living in the UK.
Expats have chosen to live elsewhere, so should not try to determine what is best for the tens of millions of people they have decided to leave behind. When I lived in Australia for half a century, I would never have voted in a UK election even if it had been possible. I made my choice to live there, and I would have considered it inappropriate to try and impose my will on the UK with a vote.
I have heard many ridiculous statements about leaving the EU, including that Brits would not be able to fly between European cities, yet before Britain joined the Common Market which became the EU, there were no such restrictions.
Please tell me what UK expats fear if Brexit wins, do their adopted countries not provide for their needs? I would like to live in Germany where I have good German friends, unfortunately with my health issues, the cost of health insurance is prohibitive. Thus I have to make the choice of living in the UK or return to Oz. Life is about needs and choices, expats must consider this when they wish to enjoy the benefits of living in another country.
Expats have chosen to live elsewhere, so should not try to determine what is best for the tens of millions of people they have decided to leave behind. When I lived in Australia for half a century, I would never have voted in a UK election even if it had been possible. I made my choice to live there, and I would have considered it inappropriate to try and impose my will on the UK with a vote.
I have heard many ridiculous statements about leaving the EU, including that Brits would not be able to fly between European cities, yet before Britain joined the Common Market which became the EU, there were no such restrictions.
Please tell me what UK expats fear if Brexit wins, do their adopted countries not provide for their needs? I would like to live in Germany where I have good German friends, unfortunately with my health issues, the cost of health insurance is prohibitive. Thus I have to make the choice of living in the UK or return to Oz. Life is about needs and choices, expats must consider this when they wish to enjoy the benefits of living in another country.
Apr 10th 2016, 3:26 am
#19
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Leaving the EU.
Anyone with a British passport has the option at any time to return to the UK, or go to the UK if they were born overseas. It seems entirely reasonable to me that anyone who has a British passport should be able to vote on the sort of Britain that they would return to.
Apr 10th 2016, 7:30 pm
#20
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: bute
Posts: 9,740
Re: Leaving the EU.
But if a British passport-holder is unwise enough to marry a non-British-passport holder, the rules of the game change ! It seems that Public Policy is now to encourage Endogamy !
Apr 11th 2016, 1:08 pm
#21
Just Joined
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 9
Re: Leaving the EU.
I don't wish to upset anyone, but I don't believe that anyone living in another country should be able to vote on anything concerning what is best for those living in the UK.
Expats have chosen to live elsewhere, so should not try to determine what is best for the tens of millions of people they have decided to leave behind. When I lived in Australia for half a century, I would never have voted in a UK election even if it had been possible. I made my choice to live there, and I would have considered it inappropriate to try and impose my will on the UK with a vote.
I have heard many ridiculous statements about leaving the EU, including that Brits would not be able to fly between European cities, yet before Britain joined the Common Market which became the EU, there were no such restrictions.
Please tell me what UK expats fear if Brexit wins, do their adopted countries not provide for their needs? I would like to live in Germany where I have good German friends, unfortunately with my health issues, the cost of health insurance is prohibitive. Thus I have to make the choice of living in the UK or return to Oz. Life is about needs and choices, expats must consider this when they wish to enjoy the benefits of living in another country.
Expats have chosen to live elsewhere, so should not try to determine what is best for the tens of millions of people they have decided to leave behind. When I lived in Australia for half a century, I would never have voted in a UK election even if it had been possible. I made my choice to live there, and I would have considered it inappropriate to try and impose my will on the UK with a vote.
I have heard many ridiculous statements about leaving the EU, including that Brits would not be able to fly between European cities, yet before Britain joined the Common Market which became the EU, there were no such restrictions.
Please tell me what UK expats fear if Brexit wins, do their adopted countries not provide for their needs? I would like to live in Germany where I have good German friends, unfortunately with my health issues, the cost of health insurance is prohibitive. Thus I have to make the choice of living in the UK or return to Oz. Life is about needs and choices, expats must consider this when they wish to enjoy the benefits of living in another country.
Apr 22nd 2016, 1:32 pm
#22
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,274
Re: Leaving the EU.
UK expats, living in most countries outside EU, are denied having their Old Age Pensions (OAP) index-liked for inflation. If UK leaves EU will expats, living in EU countries, still be able to get their UK pensions index-linked?
Last edited by Davita; Apr 22nd 2016 at 1:35 pm.
Apr 22nd 2016, 7:11 pm
#23
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 95
Re: Leaving the EU.
Good question Davita. I think there are several things they may stop - winter fuel for example. However, I still feel that the UK should pull out of the EU.
Apr 29th 2016, 2:49 pm
#24
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Now Devon
Posts: 951
Re: Leaving the EU.
Often the UK has little or no influence on the creation of new laws anyway because the UK finds itself in a small minority, often a minority of one. 
If this wasn't the case we probably wouldn't be having this discussion because it is at the root of most of the problems that the UK has with the EU.
If this wasn't the case we probably wouldn't be having this discussion because it is at the root of most of the problems that the UK has with the EU.
May 2nd 2016, 7:31 pm
#25
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,904
Re: Leaving the EU.
not true their are indexation agreements with many countries outside the EU INCLUDING THE USA. However the big exceptions are Australia, Canada and New Zealand.
May 3rd 2016, 4:19 pm
#26
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: bute
Posts: 9,740
Re: Leaving the EU.
Old Etonians seem to be overwhelmingly for Exit. Why is that ? Have they spotted that their interest dictates that leaving would be best for the City and for Finance Capital ?
May 3rd 2016, 4:30 pm
#27
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 508
Re: Leaving the EU.
South Africa also falls into this category, although the relatively small number of British retirees makes it easy to ignore.
May 6th 2016, 2:16 pm
#28
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,274
Re: Leaving the EU.
My point is, if they were denied index-linked pensions if UK left EU and decided to return to get the benefits of a full OAP, NHS, welfare if qualified,...etc. it would make the case for alien immigration, being a reason for Brexit, a non-event.
