uk_vette

.
As for a cheap country, I guess Bulgaria would suit your purpose.

vette

uk_vette

.
Sounds also good,
Easy transport,
Ferry from Dublin to Liverpool or Hollyhead.

Also sounds good.

vette

ldollard

Sorry I have to revive this thread.

Some questions.

1) How does a non-EEU spouse just go to say Dublin or Portugal and live with an EU national (which i assume a British Citizen is)?

2) If I did this, does my spouse actually have to be with me the whole time or could she and the kids just come whenever I moved to the UK?

3) What exactly do I need to get from the host country for my or myself to show that she can enter the UK and simply settle there?

Seems like I might have to follow this route myself. Which is outrageous.

uk_vette

Hi Idollard,

Yes, firstly it is outrageous.
But this is because as a British citizen and passport holder, you have less rights, than an EU citizen and passport holder when not in your home country.

Sounds complicated but not really.

If you are UK citizenship, and while you are in any EU country, but not your home country, then you have more rights.

Put another way, If you are UK citizenship, and while you are in any EU country, but you are your home country, then you have less rights.

As a UK citizen and passport holder you can take your non-EEA wife to any country, but not your home country.

Your Non-EEA wife needs to speak and understand reasonably good English, and must pass exams, if you are planning for a UKBA settlement visa, but if your wife is from Spain, Portugal, France, Germany, Poland, or any of the EU countries, then she doesn't need one word of English.

It's not good, as you can see, oh, and the English speaking is just one part of the UKBA settlement visa requirements.

Surinder kind of set a precedent, in EU law, and "broke the ice" so to speak.
Another name you can read up on is "Zambrano" and UKBA.

vette

SanDiegogirl

Basically this route is where the EU national (in this case you as a British citizen) goes with his family to live AND WORK in another EU country i.e exercising your rights to live and work in EU country under EU law.

Then, following some time (there is no rule to this but most people suggest that a reasonable time would be after working in other country for approx 6 months or more), then British spouse would apply for EEA family permit for non EU spouse and move to the UK.

See below:
Full Case Record
ID 118
Case R v Immigration Appeal Tribunal and Surinder Singh ex parte Secretary of State for the Home Department
TypeofCase Immigration
Summary Surinder Singh, an Indian national working in Germany, married Rashpal Purewal, a British national, in 1982 and she took part-time work in Germany. In 1985, the couple returned to the UK to set up a business. Mr Singh was initially admitted to the UK for one year as a husband. The marriage broke down and the husband was refused indefinite leave and became an overstayer. The Secretary of State initiated deportation proceedings and the husband appealed. He argued that the Home Office had been wrong to admit him only for a year under British immigration rules; because his wife was an EC national covered by the EC Treaty, she was entitled to have her husband living with her. He therefore had settlement rights arising out of his wife’s EC right to free movement. The appeal was dismissed by the Adjudicator but allowed by the Tribunal on the grounds of the rights the husband had acquired under European law. The Secretary of State sought Judicial Review of the Tribunal’s determination. The Court of the Queen’s Bench referred the question of the interpretation of the Treaty of Rome and relevant directives concerning free movement within member states to the European Court. It was held that a member state must grant leave to enter and reside in its territory to the spouse, of whatever nationality, of a national of that state who has gone, with that spouse, to another member state in order to work there as an employed person and returns to establish herself in the state of which she is a national. A spouse must be granted at least the same rights as would be granted to him under Community law if his spouse had entered and resided in another member state. Comment: the case led to what became known as ‘the Surninder Singh route to family reunion’, whereby British citizens wishing to return to the UK with family members enter under EEA (European Economic Area) law rather than domestic immigration law (see www.ncadc.org.uk for a full discussion). 
Year 1992
Citation [1993] 1 FCR 453, [1992] Imm AR 565
Court Court of Justice of the European Communities
RelatedCases
Judge




Not the easiest route for families to take since it means two moves - one to the EU state and then one to the UK

uk_vette

Hi SanDiegoGirl,

That's a great, and clearly written breakdown of the case.

vette

ldollard

So could i move to a european country, find a job and say after 3 months have my wife join me and then apply for an EEA family permit.

And if my wife had this EEA permit she can freely go to to the UK to live and work. Whats happens then once we settle in the UK what more do we need to apply for?

Thanks

uk_vette

In not so many words, you have it in a nutshell,

I even begin to think, that having a UK citizenship and passport is a like being tied down with a ball and chain, if your final destination is UK.

How often do you read and hear about "the immigrants" getting all the good government deals, when the same deals are excluded from the "men and woman who made Great Britain GREAT all them years ago "



vette

SanDiegogirl

You should start researching here:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eu...family-permit/

I think the important terms of being eligible for this permit are as follows:

the British citizen has been living in an EEA member state as a worker or self-employed person; and
the family member, if they are the British citizen's spouse or civil partner, has been living together with the British citizen in the EEA country.

The British sponsor has to have been living AND WORKING in the EU country and the family has to have been living there with them.

As said previously, there is no set rule as to the length of time one needs to be working in the EU country but 6 months seems to be the period looked upon as a reasonable time to establish the term "living and working"

Yes, once the visa is obtained your wife could work in the UK. It is recommended that the immigrant applies for a residency permit as proof of eligibility to live and work in the UK.

It takes 5 years to obtain permanent residency. Following this one can take out naturalization.

ldollard

That's great thanks. Does this route apply to any EU country, for instance Ireland; Can we just move there and live and work now. And get the EEA family permit from there?

WEBlue

Yes, Ireland is a member of the EEA. But you need to research whether your wife would need any kind of permission to move to Ireland for settlement as your non-EEA spouse. The need (or not) for this permission would likely vary from country to country, and would likely be free. But it still needs careful research.

There's more info on the Singh route in a thread from last week, don't know if you've seen it:
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=783985

ldollard

Well that was an issue I was thinking about....

... you know i'm just calling a lawyer I have one on hand this is I suspect way beyond the remit of a forum, thanks for all your help guys its been invaluable.

WEBlue

As long as your lawyer is a good one, who has studied the new rules, that might be a good idea. (Is he OISC certified? http://oisc.homeoffice.gov.uk/how_to...se_an_adviser/)

On the other hand, these rules are new enough that even the most competant immigration advisors may not yet know enough. It's always wise to do all the studying you can on your own, so that you can work with your immigration advisor, relying on his knowledge when needed but also questioning & double-checking everything he says to make sure you understand how it works as well. IMO, that way you have a better chance of your application succeeding.

ldollard

This lady worked for UK immigration until 2009, ad everything I've read about her suggests she knows her stuff.

I've researched all I can and at this stage there is nothing nowhere explaining my particular situation. So hopefully she can help, i'm chatting to her Monday so i'll update this then and let you all know how it goes.

uk_vette

Good, I hope all works out for you both.

Gra,