Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
Aug 25th 2016, 7:09 am
#46
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
As in prohibition. People find it hard to imagine what an incredibly unsophisticated place Toronto was in the 1980's (or perhaps they don't). But by then, most city Wards had voted to abandon "dry" status. The area west of Keele and south of Bloor was a very late convert to the idea that having a glass of wine with a meal was not the work of the devil.
Aug 25th 2016, 7:15 am
#47
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Joined: Oct 2007
Location: In a darkened room somewhere.............
Posts: 34,035
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
Thanks everyone, especially for the links. Swansea / high park area is where we were thinking beforehand. A few of the guys from work cycle in from around there and recommend it too. Can't find many rental properties coming up there though which suggests its in high demand.
We're going to ask for a bit more as 50% of income on housing doesn't leave much for anything else in my book, and it currently feels like a pay cut in real terms. Thanks again, fingers crossed..
We're going to ask for a bit more as 50% of income on housing doesn't leave much for anything else in my book, and it currently feels like a pay cut in real terms. Thanks again, fingers crossed..
So yes, I'd go back to them and tell them you want your salary matched at the very least (that's assuming they are paying every relocation cost too).
Good luck.
Aug 25th 2016, 7:26 am
#48
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
As in prohibition. People find it hard to imagine what an incredibly unsophisticated place Toronto was in the 1980's (or perhaps they don't). But by then, most city Wards had voted to abandon "dry" status. The area west of Keele and south of Bloor was a very late convert to the idea that having a glass of wine with a meal was not the work of the devil.
Aug 25th 2016, 12:18 pm
#49
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
Alcohol sales are still treated bizarrely in Ontario. As mentioned, I've been drinking Pride for a long time. I've struggled with various shortages caused by repackaging and the apparent need to sell all the single cans in Ontario before selling the same cans in groups of four. I have a dozen bottles or so at home but then that's it, it's just become too difficult to buy it.
The latest nonsense is that this month it doesn't come in cans at the Liquor Control Board shops but in bottles a shop called the Beer Store. The Beer Store is incredibly badly set up for selling beer. At least it is if you want a specific beer, if you want a case of Bud Lite but will settle for Coors Lite, as the locals do, then it's set up for that. The Beer Store has carts but they're set up for cases, Pride is sold in single bottles so, for me, the process of acquisition for two dozen is:
- drive the 30 miles to the Beer Store
- get cart
- place bottles on it individually, building a stack
- wheel cart delicately to till
- lift each bottle on to the system of rollers designed for cases
- move each bottle along individually as the previous customer is dealt with
- unload each bottle back into delicate pile on cart
- wheel cart to door, not down kerb as pile is too delicate
- carry bottles three or four at a time to the car
- drive home, have a cognac.
Gah, nothing makes me feel that I'm living beyond the end of civilization more than trying to buy beer or wine here. Where else in the world would you carry twenty cans of beer to the till on a rainy day and be handed the cans, packed in a paper bag?
Still, in the 80s all alcohol was sold by the customer writing a note and passing it through a hole in the wall, a plain package was handed back. Some stores continued to use that method until much more recently. There was also a regulation about having to buy "a meal" in order to have a drink so there was a plate of chips on the bar and everyone bought that plate. And then, a drink could only be a tiny amount, four ounces of beer iirc, so it was usual to order "a tray" each and to have four dozen glasses on the table.
Apart from being dry, the other reason for avoiding the west end was the smell from the abattoir. I had a job in the High Park slaughterhouse, the car stank to high heaven after driving through the gut slop in the car park.
Toronto, still Hogtown really.
The latest nonsense is that this month it doesn't come in cans at the Liquor Control Board shops but in bottles a shop called the Beer Store. The Beer Store is incredibly badly set up for selling beer. At least it is if you want a specific beer, if you want a case of Bud Lite but will settle for Coors Lite, as the locals do, then it's set up for that. The Beer Store has carts but they're set up for cases, Pride is sold in single bottles so, for me, the process of acquisition for two dozen is:
- drive the 30 miles to the Beer Store
- get cart
- place bottles on it individually, building a stack
- wheel cart delicately to till
- lift each bottle on to the system of rollers designed for cases
- move each bottle along individually as the previous customer is dealt with
- unload each bottle back into delicate pile on cart
- wheel cart to door, not down kerb as pile is too delicate
- carry bottles three or four at a time to the car
- drive home, have a cognac.
Gah, nothing makes me feel that I'm living beyond the end of civilization more than trying to buy beer or wine here. Where else in the world would you carry twenty cans of beer to the till on a rainy day and be handed the cans, packed in a paper bag?
Still, in the 80s all alcohol was sold by the customer writing a note and passing it through a hole in the wall, a plain package was handed back. Some stores continued to use that method until much more recently. There was also a regulation about having to buy "a meal" in order to have a drink so there was a plate of chips on the bar and everyone bought that plate. And then, a drink could only be a tiny amount, four ounces of beer iirc, so it was usual to order "a tray" each and to have four dozen glasses on the table.
Apart from being dry, the other reason for avoiding the west end was the smell from the abattoir. I had a job in the High Park slaughterhouse, the car stank to high heaven after driving through the gut slop in the car park.
Toronto, still Hogtown really.
Aug 25th 2016, 12:48 pm
#50
Proudly Scarberian
Joined: Aug 2014
Location: Scarberia
Posts: 2,196
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
I tried to google something on the dry neighbourhoods but couldn't find a good definitive article. This was in relation to East York which used to be entirely dry, and directly led to a proliferation of boozers and restaurants on the Danforth (in Toronto) where the whole of East York would troop down to for a beer. But then the beaches (also Toronto) were also dry for a while, so I wondered where the dividing line was?
I guess if you're rural you have no choice of beer store. My local one is a proper walk in so you can peruse and choose what you want. I avoid the ones where you choose your poison from a chart on the wall and a 2-4 of pssiwater comes back through the hatch. They did have free fold-out cardboard carriers that would take 8 cans or bottles; maybe you should stock up in a beer store next time you're in TO. Or invest in some other bottle/ can transportation- LCBO's often have old cardboard wine cases available.
Reminds me. The feathers does pride on draught (albeit keg draught). So if you;'re ever in the east end and have washed the smell of slaughtered pig off you...
I guess if you're rural you have no choice of beer store. My local one is a proper walk in so you can peruse and choose what you want. I avoid the ones where you choose your poison from a chart on the wall and a 2-4 of pssiwater comes back through the hatch. They did have free fold-out cardboard carriers that would take 8 cans or bottles; maybe you should stock up in a beer store next time you're in TO. Or invest in some other bottle/ can transportation- LCBO's often have old cardboard wine cases available.
Reminds me. The feathers does pride on draught (albeit keg draught). So if you;'re ever in the east end and have washed the smell of slaughtered pig off you...
Alcohol sales are still treated bizarrely in Ontario. As mentioned, I've been drinking Pride for a long time. I've struggled with various shortages caused by repackaging and the apparent need to sell all the single cans in Ontario before selling the same cans in groups of four. I have a dozen bottles or so at home but then that's it, it's just become too difficult to buy it.
The latest nonsense is that this month it doesn't come in cans at the Liquor Control Board shops but in bottles a shop called the Beer Store. The Beer Store is incredibly badly set up for selling beer. At least it is if you want a specific beer, if you want a case of Bud Lite but will settle for Coors Lite, as the locals do, then it's set up for that. The Beer Store has carts but they're set up for cases, Pride is sold in single bottles so, for me, the process of acquisition for two dozen is:
- drive the 30 miles to the Beer Store
- get cart
- place bottles on it individually, building a stack
- wheel cart delicately to till
- lift each bottle on to the system of rollers designed for cases
- move each bottle along individually as the previous customer is dealt with
- unload each bottle back into delicate pile on cart
- wheel cart to door, not down kerb as pile is too delicate
- carry bottles three or four at a time to the car
- drive home, have a cognac.
Gah, nothing makes me feel that I'm living beyond the end of civilization more than trying to buy beer or wine here. Where else in the world would you carry twenty cans of beer to the till on a rainy day and be handed the cans, packed in a paper bag?
Still, in the 80s all alcohol was sold by the customer writing a note and passing it through a hole in the wall, a plain package was handed back. Some stores continued to use that method until much more recently. There was also a regulation about having to buy "a meal" in order to have a drink so there was a plate of chips on the bar and everyone bought that plate. And then, a drink could only be a tiny amount, four ounces of beer iirc, so it was usual to order "a tray" each and to have four dozen glasses on the table.
Apart from being dry, the other reason for avoiding the west end was the smell from the abattoir. I had a job in the High Park slaughterhouse, the car stank to high heaven after driving through the gut slop in the car park.
Toronto, still Hogtown really.
The latest nonsense is that this month it doesn't come in cans at the Liquor Control Board shops but in bottles a shop called the Beer Store. The Beer Store is incredibly badly set up for selling beer. At least it is if you want a specific beer, if you want a case of Bud Lite but will settle for Coors Lite, as the locals do, then it's set up for that. The Beer Store has carts but they're set up for cases, Pride is sold in single bottles so, for me, the process of acquisition for two dozen is:
- drive the 30 miles to the Beer Store
- get cart
- place bottles on it individually, building a stack
- wheel cart delicately to till
- lift each bottle on to the system of rollers designed for cases
- move each bottle along individually as the previous customer is dealt with
- unload each bottle back into delicate pile on cart
- wheel cart to door, not down kerb as pile is too delicate
- carry bottles three or four at a time to the car
- drive home, have a cognac.
Gah, nothing makes me feel that I'm living beyond the end of civilization more than trying to buy beer or wine here. Where else in the world would you carry twenty cans of beer to the till on a rainy day and be handed the cans, packed in a paper bag?
Still, in the 80s all alcohol was sold by the customer writing a note and passing it through a hole in the wall, a plain package was handed back. Some stores continued to use that method until much more recently. There was also a regulation about having to buy "a meal" in order to have a drink so there was a plate of chips on the bar and everyone bought that plate. And then, a drink could only be a tiny amount, four ounces of beer iirc, so it was usual to order "a tray" each and to have four dozen glasses on the table.
Apart from being dry, the other reason for avoiding the west end was the smell from the abattoir. I had a job in the High Park slaughterhouse, the car stank to high heaven after driving through the gut slop in the car park.
Toronto, still Hogtown really.
Aug 25th 2016, 1:10 pm
#51
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,363
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
Alcohol sales are still treated bizarrely in Ontario. As mentioned, I've been drinking Pride for a long time. I've struggled with various shortages caused by repackaging and the apparent need to sell all the single cans in Ontario before selling the same cans in groups of four. I have a dozen bottles or so at home but then that's it, it's just become too difficult to buy it.
The latest nonsense is that this month it doesn't come in cans at the Liquor Control Board shops but in bottles a shop called the Beer Store. The Beer Store is incredibly badly set up for selling beer. At least it is if you want a specific beer, if you want a case of Bud Lite but will settle for Coors Lite, as the locals do, then it's set up for that. The Beer Store has carts but they're set up for cases, Pride is sold in single bottles so, for me, the process of acquisition for two dozen is:
- drive the 30 miles to the Beer Store
- get cart
- place bottles on it individually, building a stack
- wheel cart delicately to till
- lift each bottle on to the system of rollers designed for cases
- move each bottle along individually as the previous customer is dealt with
- unload each bottle back into delicate pile on cart
- wheel cart to door, not down kerb as pile is too delicate
- carry bottles three or four at a time to the car
- drive home, have a cognac.
Gah, nothing makes me feel that I'm living beyond the end of civilization more than trying to buy beer or wine here. Where else in the world would you carry twenty cans of beer to the till on a rainy day and be handed the cans, packed in a paper bag?
Still, in the 80s all alcohol was sold by the customer writing a note and passing it through a hole in the wall, a plain package was handed back. Some stores continued to use that method until much more recently. There was also a regulation about having to buy "a meal" in order to have a drink so there was a plate of chips on the bar and everyone bought that plate. And then, a drink could only be a tiny amount, four ounces of beer iirc, so it was usual to order "a tray" each and to have four dozen glasses on the table.
Apart from being dry, the other reason for avoiding the west end was the smell from the abattoir. I had a job in the High Park slaughterhouse, the car stank to high heaven after driving through the gut slop in the car park.
Toronto, still Hogtown really.
The latest nonsense is that this month it doesn't come in cans at the Liquor Control Board shops but in bottles a shop called the Beer Store. The Beer Store is incredibly badly set up for selling beer. At least it is if you want a specific beer, if you want a case of Bud Lite but will settle for Coors Lite, as the locals do, then it's set up for that. The Beer Store has carts but they're set up for cases, Pride is sold in single bottles so, for me, the process of acquisition for two dozen is:
- drive the 30 miles to the Beer Store
- get cart
- place bottles on it individually, building a stack
- wheel cart delicately to till
- lift each bottle on to the system of rollers designed for cases
- move each bottle along individually as the previous customer is dealt with
- unload each bottle back into delicate pile on cart
- wheel cart to door, not down kerb as pile is too delicate
- carry bottles three or four at a time to the car
- drive home, have a cognac.
Gah, nothing makes me feel that I'm living beyond the end of civilization more than trying to buy beer or wine here. Where else in the world would you carry twenty cans of beer to the till on a rainy day and be handed the cans, packed in a paper bag?
Still, in the 80s all alcohol was sold by the customer writing a note and passing it through a hole in the wall, a plain package was handed back. Some stores continued to use that method until much more recently. There was also a regulation about having to buy "a meal" in order to have a drink so there was a plate of chips on the bar and everyone bought that plate. And then, a drink could only be a tiny amount, four ounces of beer iirc, so it was usual to order "a tray" each and to have four dozen glasses on the table.
Apart from being dry, the other reason for avoiding the west end was the smell from the abattoir. I had a job in the High Park slaughterhouse, the car stank to high heaven after driving through the gut slop in the car park.
Toronto, still Hogtown really.
The local beer market has improved in many ways in that fresh, flavourful beer brewed in Ontario or other parts of Canada are readily available. Granted, the same convuluted way you describe to get the beer is required but at the end of the day you're not buying somewhat stale beer.
For me, beer is best consumed close to where it is brewed and not subject to lots of transportation.
FullerÂ’s London Pride (Pasteurised)
Years ago, Old Peculier was one of my go to beers in the UK. The imported bottles we got in Canada were nowhere near as good.
Are you sure that the way to sell beer and alcohol in Ontario in the 80's was like that. I moved here in 1981 to Toronto as a 17 year old and don't recall it that way then and I got the impression self serve had been around a few years. This website indicates that self serve started in 1969.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquor...ard_of_Ontario
I'm not defending the Beer Store and the LCBO but the system is improving and to be totally honest, London Pride is a niche beer and if the system was totally free market, most places would just sell swill that is in the top 10 and there would be a few niche stores that would not always sell London Pride.
Unfortunately, consumer tastes are pretty dire as mass produced euro swill type lagers are very popular on both sides of the ocean.
Last edited by Partially discharged; Aug 25th 2016 at 1:12 pm.
Aug 25th 2016, 1:26 pm
#52
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
I was looking to buy beer in Guelph, the nearest shop that had some was in Georgetown, neither location is really rural.
I know the Feathers passably, having lived nearby for a long time. There was a regular there who had been in the print and is now a skiffle player. He once had a Morris Marina, beige it was, he towed a caravan with it. Drinking in the Feathers always made me think of On the Busses - English but not especially the English one wants.
Aug 25th 2016, 1:37 pm
#53
Assimilated Pauper
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 40,018
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
I'm surprised you were 17 in 1981, btw, I'd thought you more mature.
I'm not defending the Beer Store and the LCBO but the system is improving and to be totally honest, London Pride is a niche beer and if the system was totally free market, most places would just sell swill that is in the top 10 and there would be a few niche stores that would not always sell London Pride.
Aug 25th 2016, 1:45 pm
#54
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
TBH, I had never known about 'Fullers London pride ale', got me on a beer store search, its available at the one near me for $3.50 bottle.
Next time I'm out I'll pick up two bottles one each for my daughter - at the $3.50 x 2 spend. Maybe our daughter will pick up the tab
Would you suggest drinking it refrigerated cold or at room temperature?
Next time I'm out I'll pick up two bottles one each for my daughter - at the $3.50 x 2 spend. Maybe our daughter will pick up the tab
Would you suggest drinking it refrigerated cold or at room temperature?
Aug 25th 2016, 1:46 pm
#55
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
It's such an embarrassingly antiquated distribution system. You would think that the big brewing companies could lobby the government and whip up some public support to dismantle the LCBO and normalise retail sales.
Aug 25th 2016, 1:48 pm
#56
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
TBH, I had never known about 'Fullers London pride ale', got me on a beer store search, its available at the one near me for $3.50 bottle.
Next time I'm out I'll pick up two bottles one each for my daughter - at the $3.50 x 2 spend. Maybe our daughter will pick up the tab
Would you suggest drinking it refrigerated cold or at room temperature?
Next time I'm out I'll pick up two bottles one each for my daughter - at the $3.50 x 2 spend. Maybe our daughter will pick up the tab
Would you suggest drinking it refrigerated cold or at room temperature?
Aug 25th 2016, 1:59 pm
#57
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Aug 25th 2016, 2:18 pm
#58
Dive Bar Drunk
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,649
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
Do the big brewing companies want their best customer dismantled?
It's the small brewers (and wineries) who hate having to deal with the government to try and get their product distributed.
Aug 25th 2016, 2:21 pm
#59
Yo
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,474
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
Aug 25th 2016, 3:31 pm
#60
Born again atheist
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Europe (to be specified).
Posts: 30,259
Re: Is $125k enough to live well in Toronto
As you know, I didn't arrive fresh off the boat from the UK, but after 5 years in Southern California where buying booze was a 24/7 thing from supermarkets, gas stations, convenience stores and speciality shops.
I spent Christmas Day in 1981 sunning myself in the garden drinking G&T with a slice of lime picked from our tree there. Christmas Day 1982 was rather different.