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Old May 24th 2017, 4:39 am   #16
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Default Re: Manchester

To save time in future:
“Obviously it's a horrific crime that's was perpetrated in <place name here> at <time of day>. At this time our thoughts are with the <insert number of people killed> families that have had the most loved and cherished people from their lives as well as the <insert number of people injured> who are still receiving medical treatment and care. I’m sure members of the police and security services will be working very closely with the <religion name here> community to fully investigate relevant matters and bring some very small number of individuals to account through the judicial system.

We would ask people to remain calm at this difficult time and remind people that respect for and tolerance for the causes of violence is of the utmost importance to our society. We hypothesis that this will ultimately somehow lead to less violence despite recent evidence to the contrary.”

We can polish it up over the next few years...or centuries. Depending on how long it takes society to get over religion.
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Old May 24th 2017, 7:30 am   #17
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Default Re: Manchester

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Originally Posted by Charismatic View Post
To save time in future:
“Obviously it's a horrific crime that's was perpetrated in <place name here> at <time of day>. At this time our thoughts are with the <insert number of people killed> families that have had the most loved and cherished people from their lives as well as the <insert number of people injured> who are still receiving medical treatment and care. I’m sure members of the police and security services will be working very closely with the <religion name here> community to fully investigate relevant matters and bring some very small number of individuals to account through the judicial system.

We would ask people to remain calm at this difficult time and remind people that respect for and tolerance for the causes of violence is of the utmost importance to our society. We hypothesis that this will ultimately somehow lead to less violence despite recent evidence to the contrary.”

We can polish it up over the next few years...or centuries. Depending on how long it takes society to get over religion.
So, what would you suggest? "A murderer has used their screwed up version of a particular faith to commit an atrocity. Consequently, you need to hate and vilify everyone of that faith, frighten them, ostracize them, reject them, isolate and exclude them - because this will lead to less violence" ?
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Old May 24th 2017, 7:34 am   #18
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Default Re: Manchester

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Originally Posted by BEVS View Post
Yes. Same this end. Two young ladies at the concert but finally home safe.
One being hassled via media messaging to give an interview. Both not in a good head space at all but safe and sound.

No words really. Sad pointless loss of lives yet again.
A horrible experience for them BEVS, how worried you must have all been. They'll never forget, but hopefully the impact will diminish over time. Bloody media, sometimes they remind me of vultures.
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Old May 24th 2017, 8:55 am   #19
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Default Re: Manchester

The West haven't got the stomach to tackle the real target....

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Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Choices are going to have to be made - there will be a reckoning




Have to cut the head of off this...... So Trump then the Sheiks.

Why is he kissing their collective arses ?

Someone needs to call them out for trying to spread their version of fascism... The UK and France and maybe even Germany and Russia are probably the go. The US obviously wont, it's been totally corrupted.

A fair summation of whats going on taken from the TiO thread.

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Originally Posted by macliam View Post

Firstly, kimilseung, Maajid Nawaz says many interesting things, but he's a nice, British-born, middle-class guy who has made a career out of anti-Islamist activities. The term "regressive left" suggests people who excuse Islamism, not Islam - so your suggestion that I might be so described just shows the danger of assuming things about someone you don't know.

I have lived in a muslim country and I met young men who had gone on the Green March in Morocco, not as royalists but under the green flag of Islam, "radicalised" by salafist teachings of the new Saudi-funded Mosques. Their venom against the west shocked me and was a contrast to the people around them - I remember being taken aback that a nationalist republican could be lumped in with those I considered to be my oppressors. Well, they've now had 40 years and a few wars to harden their attitudes. So I'm not particularly interested in an intellectual crusade against organised religion and I don't understand the mechanism of radicalization, but I do have concerns at the vehemence of radicals and islamophobes who don't need much excuse to hate. It is not the radicals who will suffer, it is the innocents who are easier to attack.

Secondly, and by extension, I refuse to accept the wholesale condemnation of a set of beliefs, based on the interpretation of a non-believer. I am happy to argue against specifics and have done so, but I will not generalise. Where such condemnation becomes more than an intellectual exercise is when it offers succour to those seeking support for hatred - and that is the current climate. Arguing semantics with someone who can't tell a sikh from a muslim is unlikely to have a positive outcome.

Thirdly, Leslie, thank you for your patronising post. You are correct, I do not know you and you do not know me. I am indeed a product of my experiences, as are we all, and I have been lucky to travel and meet people who helped me. I have known Christians from Syria, Jews from Iraq and even a Zoroastrian from Iran, whose families lived under Islam for centuries until things changed in the late C20th and a corrupted secular or islamist ideology replaced the more tolerant form and made life impossible for them. I neither support nor condone the actions of radical Islam, neither do I accept those of craw-thumping fundamentalist Christians or Zionists, or Hindus or secularists - but I will not close my eyes whilst an entire community is condemned solely on the basis of their beliefs, or whilst support for that condemnation is offered by accident or design..

The most regressive form of Islam is that which has been spread worldwide in the salafist mosques funded by Saudi Arabia. This is the cancer that has infected the entire religion of Islam and combined with anti-imperialist feeling to produce the current situation. Yet now we see Trump cosying up to the Saudis against Iran, fuelling the intra-Islam struggle between Sunni and Shi'ia. It will all end in tears.

This is a far cry from the horrible events in Manchester, where innocents of all religions or none had their lives snuffed out by someone who did not think them worth consideration. Whatever the reason for the attack, I condemn utterly the cowardly, criminal actions of the perpetrator. If he was radicalized and supported daesh, al quaeda or any other islamist group, then I can only echo the words of someone from the Leytonstone attack "You ain't no muslim, bruv", but further, you ain't no human either.

Now I'll leave you to get on with your private conversations..... enjoy.
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Old May 24th 2017, 10:20 am   #20
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Default Re: Manchester

(not directly on Manchester but since you raise Trump) Is this the same Trump who previously condemned SA as evil, responsible for most of the 9/11 bombers, shouldn't be allowed to export oil to the US, repressive regime etc who he just signed the biggest arms deal in history with? To add to possible collusion with Russia we now have the likelihood that the US will be implicated in future war crimes committed by SA with US weapons. Is this the same Trump whose failing businesses were refloated with Muslim cash more than once? Rather than not buy their oil, taking their oil revenues for US weapons is the way to break that principle in a Trump principled way! They'll never implicate the US in war crimes also; we didn't know what they would use our supplies for. If anyone accuses me of anything or tries to pin anything on me I'll sack them as well and if they can't find any proof for what I tweet about Obama and Clinton I'll sack them as well. That Trump?
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Old May 24th 2017, 10:52 am   #21
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Default Re: Manchester

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzTennis View Post
(not directly on Manchester but since you raise Trump) Is this the same Trump who previously condemned SA as evil, responsible for most of the 9/11 bombers, shouldn't be allowed to export oil to the US, repressive regime etc who he just signed the biggest arms deal in history with? To add to possible collusion with Russia we now have the likelihood that the US will be implicated in future war crimes committed by SA with US weapons. Is this the same Trump whose failing businesses were refloated with Muslim cash more than once? Rather than not buy their oil, taking their oil revenues for US weapons is the way to break that principle in a Trump principled way! They'll never implicate the US in war crimes also; we didn't know what they would use our supplies for. If anyone accuses me of anything or tries to pin anything on me I'll sack them as well and if they can't find any proof for what I tweet about Obama and Clinton I'll sack them as well. That Trump?
Yes, the same. Grud help us all.
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Old May 24th 2017, 12:16 pm   #22
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Default Re: Manchester

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Originally Posted by DeadVim View Post
Love and tolerance will beat fear and intolerance every time.

The human race is fundamentally good, we should not lose sight of this because of a few nutjobs.
That's a lovely sentiment, DV. Something I hope people can live by.
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Old May 24th 2017, 12:18 pm   #23
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Default Manchester

Now they've come for our children

F**kers have crossed a line
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Old May 24th 2017, 12:33 pm   #24
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Default Re: Manchester

Mozza's a great Briton but he usually does talk a pile of shite. Not so this time:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...orism-response

Onya Mozza - you've hit the nail on the head
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Old May 24th 2017, 1:00 pm   #25
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Default Re: Manchester

Just musing here. If a law/decree whatever was passed that no one who died while committing an act of terrorism would receive a funeral in accordance with their faith, do you think that would act as a deterrent? Would it even be possible for a government or a country's religious leaders to pass such a law?

I don't know a lot about religion, but I think the Catholic church refuses to bury those who've committed a 'mortal sin' in consecrated ground? Maybe other religions have similar?
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Old May 24th 2017, 1:28 pm   #26
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Default Re: Manchester

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Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
Just musing here. If a law/decree whatever was passed that no one who died while committing an act of terrorism would receive a funeral in accordance with their faith, do you think that would act as a deterrent?
They are blowing themselves up - where and how they are buried is not something they are going to take too much notice of. However those standing behind them would, and it would be seen as another "getting at our muslim brother and sisters". So it would probably create more suicide bombers.

If there were an easy, simple, workable way of dealing with it, it would have been put in place by now.

The thing on this blast is that reading between the lines, it was proper explosives. And it wasn't put together by dickbrain mc numbnuts who carried it. Therefore there is a good chance of more bombs - and hence the alert level. I'm sure attention is turning to those polling stations and vote counts.
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Old May 24th 2017, 5:48 pm   #27
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Default Re: Manchester

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Originally Posted by GarryP View Post
.

If there were an easy, simple, workable way of dealing with it, it would have been put in place by now.
Although it should be unnecessary to say it - yes, I do realize that.
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Old May 24th 2017, 7:06 pm   #28
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Default Re: Manchester

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Originally Posted by Amazulu View Post
Mozza's a great Briton but he usually does talk a pile of shite. Not so this time:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...orism-response

Onya Mozza - you've hit the nail on the head
A pity he didn't mention that Jeremy Corbyn was associated with IRA killers for much of his life, and still refuses to label them as terrorists.
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Old May 24th 2017, 10:19 pm   #29
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Default Re: Manchester

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A pity he didn't mention that Jeremy Corbyn was associated with IRA killers for much of his life, and still refuses to label them as terrorists.
Possibly didn't bring it up because it's not true?

Headline:
"Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has been criticised after he refused five times to directly condemn the IRA in an interview with Sky News."

Body of article:
Mr Corbyn said "all bombing is wrong" as he faced repeated questions on the Sophy Ridge on Sunday programme over whether he condemned the IRA alone for its role in the Troubles.

He said: "I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA."

Link to article in question: Jeremy Corbyn refuses five times to directly condemn IRA

However the real story here is about how some media outlets would now publish or broadcast deliberately misleading information as they operate under a for-profit model and competition on low end news has become cutthroat. This has become an acute problem in recent years.
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Old May 25th 2017, 3:31 am   #30
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Default Re: Manchester

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Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
Although it should be unnecessary to say it - yes, I do realize that.
Just that you usually get the "lock them all up" or "ban islam" type comments after every atrocity - usually be people who don't understand what the terrorist attack is supposed to achieve, and how it's playing into the terrorists hands.

You're right (in my estimation) that cutting the legs out from underneath religion is a positive move - but that has to be done on the quiet, and in ways that don't get noticed if you aren't to create a new group of murderous zealots.
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