Moved to UK now going to Australia
Dec 23rd 2005, 9:41 pm
#16
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Originally Posted by GRANiTe
Not to go off topic here, just want to point out to Banjo that you do still need to get a retention of citizenship letter (section 6 letter) before gaining a second citizenship. What you are referring to is something else (section 9 letter).
Details of section 9: www.southafricahouse.com/hacs/exemption9(2).htm
Details of section 6: www.southafricahouse.com/hacs/retention.htm
Regards
Grant
Details of section 9: www.southafricahouse.com/hacs/exemption9(2).htm
Details of section 6: www.southafricahouse.com/hacs/retention.htm
Regards
Grant
BUT.....I am very confused. I have been trying to find a website for the SA High Commission here in Aus but the link is not working. I will try and give them a call after Christmas - unless anyone else can shed some light? or even if you can explain to me your understanding of it?
Sorry to hijack your thread Luma.....
Dec 24th 2005, 10:42 am
#17
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Originally Posted by banjo
Hi Luma,
I'm another one who's made the move from SA (Underberg) to the UK (Swindon) and then to Australia.
I moved to the UK in 1998 and it was the easiest thing as it was just me to consider. I got married in the UK and a few years later had a baby and then I also hankered after that 'outdoor' lifestyle for my children that we had growing up. It took a couple of years and a couple of trips to SA to convince my husband, but three years later here we are.
We've been in Oz for almost two years now, and there hasn't been that many days that I haven't missed the UK. Somehow it helped having family nearby -even if they were my husbands. Australia is great on lots of different levels, and has loads of similarities to the SA, but at the end of the day it isn't a safe South Africa - which is what I think I was looking for. The countryside is lovely....but not in the same league as SA in my view. We went to the Blue Mountains and that was lovely, but doesn't even compare to the Drakensberg.
I guess you have to try it for yourself....only then can you stop saying 'what if...' but do follow Jeremys advice and leave yourself a route back just in case. I didn't and now we are looking at having to go back for three years so I can re-qualify for British Citizenship.
Incidentally, you no longer have to apply to keep your SA citizenship if you apply for the citizenship of another country. It was recently ruled as a violation of a persons rights. Have a look here:
http://www.southafrica-newyork.net/h...ualcitinfo.htm for more info.
As for me....I'm from Underberg - went to school in Kokstad, but my younger brother went to Howick. My grandparents live in Port Shepstone so we spent lots of holidays down there.
Good luck.
I'm another one who's made the move from SA (Underberg) to the UK (Swindon) and then to Australia.
I moved to the UK in 1998 and it was the easiest thing as it was just me to consider. I got married in the UK and a few years later had a baby and then I also hankered after that 'outdoor' lifestyle for my children that we had growing up. It took a couple of years and a couple of trips to SA to convince my husband, but three years later here we are.
We've been in Oz for almost two years now, and there hasn't been that many days that I haven't missed the UK. Somehow it helped having family nearby -even if they were my husbands. Australia is great on lots of different levels, and has loads of similarities to the SA, but at the end of the day it isn't a safe South Africa - which is what I think I was looking for. The countryside is lovely....but not in the same league as SA in my view. We went to the Blue Mountains and that was lovely, but doesn't even compare to the Drakensberg.
I guess you have to try it for yourself....only then can you stop saying 'what if...' but do follow Jeremys advice and leave yourself a route back just in case. I didn't and now we are looking at having to go back for three years so I can re-qualify for British Citizenship.
Incidentally, you no longer have to apply to keep your SA citizenship if you apply for the citizenship of another country. It was recently ruled as a violation of a persons rights. Have a look here:
http://www.southafrica-newyork.net/h...ualcitinfo.htm for more info.
As for me....I'm from Underberg - went to school in Kokstad, but my younger brother went to Howick. My grandparents live in Port Shepstone so we spent lots of holidays down there.
Good luck.
Pablo
Dec 24th 2005, 5:37 pm
#18
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Originally Posted by GRANiTe
Not to go off topic here, just want to point out to Banjo that you do still need to get a retention of citizenship letter (section 6 letter) before gaining a second citizenship. What you are referring to is something else (section 9 letter).
Details of section 9: www.southafricahouse.com/hacs/exemption9(2).htm
Details of section 6: www.southafricahouse.com/hacs/retention.htm
Regards
Grant
Details of section 9: www.southafricahouse.com/hacs/exemption9(2).htm
Details of section 6: www.southafricahouse.com/hacs/retention.htm
Regards
Grant
I think you are mistaken. Section 9(dated 2004) clearly states that the retention form (mentioned in section 6 and dated 1995 act) is no longer necessary all that is required is the correct use of passports ie entering and leaving SA on your SA passport as to not gain any privileges not due to you as an SA citizen as opposed to a visitor(taxes and duty free possibly?).
The only use for section 6 that i am aware of is as part of an application process I am using it for and that is retrospectively requesting permission so as to regain my citizenship automatically taken from me and all others by the act pre 1995.
I shall hopefully have my citizenship/passport restored to me in January.
Banjo
The high commission site in UK is also a bit of a problem. Apparently they are updating all the relevant information due to both citizen and temp res changes, this seems to be taking them ages(months).
Bruce.
Jan 3rd 2006, 8:38 am
#19
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Location: Lancashire, UK
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Hi Banjo and Bruce
This is how I see it:
In the past if you had dual citizenship and therefore two passports it was a requirement to obtain permission to use another passport other than your SA one (section 9), but this has now been done away with and you can use foreign passports freely, as long as you use your SA passport to enter and leave SA.
But it is still a requirement to obtain permission to gain a foreign nationality if you want to keep your SA nationality as well. I recently had to do this and applied for a section 6 letter that gives me permission to hold dual nationality without losing my SA nationality.
Does this make sense?
Grant
This is how I see it:
In the past if you had dual citizenship and therefore two passports it was a requirement to obtain permission to use another passport other than your SA one (section 9), but this has now been done away with and you can use foreign passports freely, as long as you use your SA passport to enter and leave SA.
But it is still a requirement to obtain permission to gain a foreign nationality if you want to keep your SA nationality as well. I recently had to do this and applied for a section 6 letter that gives me permission to hold dual nationality without losing my SA nationality.
Does this make sense?
Grant
Jan 3rd 2006, 10:30 am
#20
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Originally Posted by GRANiTe
Hi Banjo and Bruce
This is how I see it:
In the past if you had dual citizenship and therefore two passports it was a requirement to obtain permission to use another passport other than your SA one (section 9), but this has now been done away with and you can use foreign passports freely, as long as you use your SA passport to enter and leave SA.
But it is still a requirement to obtain permission to gain a foreign nationality if you want to keep your SA nationality as well. I recently had to do this and applied for a section 6 letter that gives me permission to hold dual nationality without losing my SA nationality.
Does this make sense?
Grant
This is how I see it:
In the past if you had dual citizenship and therefore two passports it was a requirement to obtain permission to use another passport other than your SA one (section 9), but this has now been done away with and you can use foreign passports freely, as long as you use your SA passport to enter and leave SA.
But it is still a requirement to obtain permission to gain a foreign nationality if you want to keep your SA nationality as well. I recently had to do this and applied for a section 6 letter that gives me permission to hold dual nationality without losing my SA nationality.
Does this make sense?
Grant
Actually it is a little clearer. After your last post I looked again at the two 'sections' and kind of thought maybe that was what they were getting at. I will try and get hold of the SA High Commission here in Oz to sort it out. I am applying for citizenship here in two weeks.....will that give me enough time do you think?
Jan 3rd 2006, 10:54 am
#21
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Location: Lancashire, UK
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Originally Posted by banjo
Hi Granite.....clear as mud! Actually it is a little clearer. After your last post I looked again at the two 'sections' and kind of thought maybe that was what they were getting at. I will try and get hold of the SA High Commission here in Oz to sort it out. I am applying for citizenship here in two weeks.....will that give me enough time do you think?
Actually it is a little clearer. After your last post I looked again at the two 'sections' and kind of thought maybe that was what they were getting at. I will try and get hold of the SA High Commission here in Oz to sort it out. I am applying for citizenship here in two weeks.....will that give me enough time do you think?
Jan 3rd 2006, 6:57 pm
#22
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Posts: 8,266
Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Oh brother. My head explodeth!
The kids have never had S.A. passports, though we did obtain the permission letter when we left asking for permission to use the foreign passport.
We're thinking of visiting this year, and I assume we'll have to get them S.A. passports before then?
The kids have never had S.A. passports, though we did obtain the permission letter when we left asking for permission to use the foreign passport.
We're thinking of visiting this year, and I assume we'll have to get them S.A. passports before then?
Jan 3rd 2006, 7:23 pm
#23
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
2 months?? 
I'd better ring them today then.
Izibear... yes, if you are planning on visiting then you would need passports for the children....bare in mind they are done in SA and tend to take a while.
I'd better ring them today then. Izibear... yes, if you are planning on visiting then you would need passports for the children....bare in mind they are done in SA and tend to take a while.
Jan 3rd 2006, 11:35 pm
#24
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
OK....straight from the horses' mouth. VERY bad news for me I'm afraid.... You DO have to apply to retain your SA citizenship and from here it will take 6-9 months! You can't have your ceremony before being in receipt of your exemption letter. If you lose your SA citizenship like this you have to go and live there to fulfil the residency requirement before being able to resume it again.
Basically that means that my children and I will lose our citizenship in 2 weeks time. Not that I envisage going back to live there, but all my family are still there and now I won't have any good reason to support the Boks or the Proteas.
I'm incredibly fustrated right now. Anyway Granite....thanks to you for making it all clear otherwise I would still be none the wiser.
You can't have your ceremony before being in receipt of your exemption letter. If you lose your SA citizenship like this you have to go and live there to fulfil the residency requirement before being able to resume it again.Basically that means that my children and I will lose our citizenship in 2 weeks time.
Not that I envisage going back to live there, but all my family are still there and now I won't have any good reason to support the Boks or the Proteas. I'm incredibly fustrated right now. Anyway Granite....thanks to you for making it all clear otherwise I would still be none the wiser.
Jan 4th 2006, 11:34 pm
#25
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Joined: Sep 2004
Location: Melbourne since 2003
Posts: 1,014
Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Hey Luma,
My husband and I did the 'obligatory' stint in the UK for three years before moving to Melbourne in 2003. We had never planned to stay in the UK long term but we apprehensive about returning to SA and so here we are. So far, we are having a great time and although we still get homesick and have days of 'stuff it, I am going back to SA', they soon pass and we appreciate that we are lucky to be where we are.
That said, Australia is very much Australia and I agree with Banjo who said that it's not a safe South Africa, it is very much it's own place. If you have any questions, fire away and I will try my best to answer the,
There are a number of seffas on the forum, Amazulu (not surprisingly) who lives in Perth springs to mind.
Hey Banjo, we have applied for our 'retention of citizenship' for SA as we would like to apply for Australian citizenship and we were told we would have to wait 6 months (good ol' South African home affairs
) but we aren't in much of a hurry. That was about two months ago and haven't heard anything. I wouldn't give up my South African citizenship, why burn your bridges, that's what I say and it's going to take a fair bit to convince me to support the Australian cricket team 
(although if Graeme Smith carries on playing the way he is... )
My husband and I did the 'obligatory' stint in the UK for three years before moving to Melbourne in 2003. We had never planned to stay in the UK long term but we apprehensive about returning to SA and so here we are. So far, we are having a great time and although we still get homesick and have days of 'stuff it, I am going back to SA', they soon pass and we appreciate that we are lucky to be where we are.
That said, Australia is very much Australia and I agree with Banjo who said that it's not a safe South Africa, it is very much it's own place. If you have any questions, fire away and I will try my best to answer the,
There are a number of seffas on the forum, Amazulu (not surprisingly) who lives in Perth springs to mind.
Hey Banjo, we have applied for our 'retention of citizenship' for SA as we would like to apply for Australian citizenship and we were told we would have to wait 6 months (good ol' South African home affairs
) but we aren't in much of a hurry. That was about two months ago and haven't heard anything. I wouldn't give up my South African citizenship, why burn your bridges, that's what I say and it's going to take a fair bit to convince me to support the Australian cricket team (although if Graeme Smith carries on playing the way he is... )
Jan 5th 2006, 3:13 am
#26
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
I'm not sure I could ever support the aussie cricket team.....I've tried, but I just can't get excited about them. This is the first series I've followed for a while and am more than a little disappointed with the Proteas actually. There doesn't seem to be any urgency in their play, and Kallis (once my fave) seems to have gone all weird. He's just got Gibbs run out so that doesn't help!
Now, with regards to the retention of citizenship thing - is it enough to have applied, or do you actually need to have the letter before you take up your Aussie (or other) citizenship?
Now, with regards to the retention of citizenship thing - is it enough to have applied, or do you actually need to have the letter before you take up your Aussie (or other) citizenship?
Jan 5th 2006, 11:20 pm
#27
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Originally Posted by banjo
I'm not sure I could ever support the aussie cricket team.....I've tried, but I just can't get excited about them. This is the first series I've followed for a while and am more than a little disappointed with the Proteas actually. There doesn't seem to be any urgency in their play, and Kallis (once my fave) seems to have gone all weird. He's just got Gibbs run out so that doesn't help!
Now, with regards to the retention of citizenship thing - is it enough to have applied, or do you actually need to have the letter before you take up your Aussie (or other) citizenship?
Now, with regards to the retention of citizenship thing - is it enough to have applied, or do you actually need to have the letter before you take up your Aussie (or other) citizenship?
As far as I can tell, you need to have your SA citizenship certificate first before you can apply for another citizenship. Just a word of advice though, we sent in our 'retention of citizenship' forms thinking it would be sufficient but nooooo. We also had to send in a 'determination of citizenship status' (apparently, it's not enough being born in SA), so they wrote to us to let us know and he then had to send those in also which delayed the process by a few weeks.
http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/documents/bi-1664.pdf
http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/documents/bi-529e.pdf
As for the cricket, I think that the only reason Australia is better than SA is because Australia thinks they are better than SA, and unfortunately the psychological element takes it toll on the SA team. Yes, South Africa have made stupid mistakes ("catches win matches" at the end of the day and their fielding hasn't been up to scratch but then neither has Australias. At the end of the day it has really come down to luck, Australia keep winning the toss and when SA do finally win it, it bloody rains
. Both Smith and Kallis have had disappointing tours but on the whole are exceptional players. The South African team have shown just how good they actually are given they are playing in Australia and compared to Australia, are very young team (Graeme Smith is only 24, De Villiers is 21) and I would like to see what will happen to Aus when their best players retire (Ponting, Warne, Mcgrath) which will be soon, they aren't getting any younger. Yadda yadda, anyway, that's my view of it 
Last edited by Shellfish; Jan 5th 2006 at 11:24 pm.
Jan 6th 2006, 3:31 am
#28
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Location: Melbourne since 2003
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Originally Posted by Shellfish
Hi Banjo,
As far as I can tell, you need to have your SA citizenship certificate first before you can apply for another citizenship. Just a word of advice though, we sent in our 'retention of citizenship' forms thinking it would be sufficient but nooooo. We also had to send in a 'determination of citizenship status' (apparently, it's not enough being born in SA), so they wrote to us to let us know and he then had to send those in also which delayed the process by a few weeks.
http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/documents/bi-1664.pdf
http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/documents/bi-529e.pdf
As for the cricket, I think that the only reason Australia is better than SA is because Australia thinks they are better than SA, and unfortunately the psychological element takes it toll on the SA team. Yes, South Africa have made stupid mistakes ("catches win matches" at the end of the day and their fielding hasn't been up to scratch but then neither has Australias. At the end of the day it has really come down to luck, Australia keep winning the toss and when SA do finally win it, it bloody rains . Both Smith and Kallis have had disappointing tours but on the whole are exceptional players. The South African team have shown just how good they actually are given they are playing in Australia and compared to Australia, are very young team (Graeme Smith is only 24, De Villiers is 21) and I would like to see what will happen to Aus when their best players retire (Ponting, Warne, Mcgrath) which will be soon, they aren't getting any younger. Yadda yadda, anyway, that's my view of it
As far as I can tell, you need to have your SA citizenship certificate first before you can apply for another citizenship. Just a word of advice though, we sent in our 'retention of citizenship' forms thinking it would be sufficient but nooooo. We also had to send in a 'determination of citizenship status' (apparently, it's not enough being born in SA), so they wrote to us to let us know and he then had to send those in also which delayed the process by a few weeks.
http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/documents/bi-1664.pdf
http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/documents/bi-529e.pdf
As for the cricket, I think that the only reason Australia is better than SA is because Australia thinks they are better than SA, and unfortunately the psychological element takes it toll on the SA team. Yes, South Africa have made stupid mistakes ("catches win matches" at the end of the day and their fielding hasn't been up to scratch but then neither has Australias. At the end of the day it has really come down to luck, Australia keep winning the toss and when SA do finally win it, it bloody rains
. Both Smith and Kallis have had disappointing tours but on the whole are exceptional players. The South African team have shown just how good they actually are given they are playing in Australia and compared to Australia, are very young team (Graeme Smith is only 24, De Villiers is 21) and I would like to see what will happen to Aus when their best players retire (Ponting, Warne, Mcgrath) which will be soon, they aren't getting any younger. Yadda yadda, anyway, that's my view of it
Jan 14th 2006, 3:23 pm
#29
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 276
Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Hi all,
We are SA's living in the middle east but have done stint in the UK and now applying for AUS.
After reading all these messages about citizenship im beginning to get a bit concerned
. Family all have dual citizenship but have no letters or authority etc that has been mentioned on here. I was not born in SA so I think I should be ok as my other citizenship was obtained at birth. However hubby and kids all born in SA and only obtained citizenship of 2nd country later on.
From what I can see the law was introduced in 1995?? is this right and if so what is the situation if the 2nd citizenship was obtained prior to then and what if it was obtained after???
HELP im really confused and starting to get concerned as we need to renew passports very soon. :scared::scared:
Thanks for any help or info
We are SA's living in the middle east but have done stint in the UK and now applying for AUS.
After reading all these messages about citizenship im beginning to get a bit concerned
. Family all have dual citizenship but have no letters or authority etc that has been mentioned on here. I was not born in SA so I think I should be ok as my other citizenship was obtained at birth. However hubby and kids all born in SA and only obtained citizenship of 2nd country later on.From what I can see the law was introduced in 1995?? is this right and if so what is the situation if the 2nd citizenship was obtained prior to then and what if it was obtained after???
HELP im really confused and starting to get concerned as we need to renew passports very soon. :scared::scared:
Thanks for any help or info
Jan 14th 2006, 8:19 pm
#30
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Joined: Oct 2003
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Re: Moved to UK now going to Australia
Hi Depaiva,
I'm sorry to say that if you haven't applied for the exemptions then in all likelihood your SA citizenships would have fallen away. This is even more likely if you became dual citizens some time ago.
Granite.......you out there? I'm sure you' be able to work this one out.
I'm sorry to say that if you haven't applied for the exemptions then in all likelihood your SA citizenships would have fallen away. This is even more likely if you became dual citizens some time ago.
Granite.......you out there? I'm sure you' be able to work this one out.