Tracym

Depends if the govt is providing the funding, or the actual medical care.

another bloody yank

I think those are realistically one and the same.

Bob

Aye, but you wouldn't be generally waiting for life threatening stuff.

Can get silly wait times too in the US. I think it's about value for money for a nation, I think over all, pound for pound, dollar for dollar, the peeps in the UK get better value for money than folks over here on the whole.

fatbrit

Bob! You should know that if you refer to universal health care over here, you must put the words "long wait" in there. Otherwise, some misguided folks might mistakenly believe it was better than the #1 system we already have.

Tracym

It can be for something life threatening. Hopefully not often. But it can be - the thing is, I know someone personally who will die needlessly because of waiting.

That is the sort of thing that make people here reluctant.

Folks on here talk about propaganda - I really never knew much about socialized health care. What I learned, I learned from talking to people who were using it. I don't think I personally ever read a newspaper article about it.

Also, we look at - govt run hospitals (for ex. VA) - horrible reputation.
Govt vs. private - post office vs. UPS, Fedex etc. - private is a little more expensive, but much more reliable.
Social Security vs. private insurance - social security is terrible, without a private supplement.

The UK seems to generally have the govt run things better that private enterprise.
The US does not always, or perhaps even generally - our perception is that anything govt run is likely to be ineffecient, and not good quality either.

Look at US spousal visas vs. the UK for example.

I doubt hardly anyone is "mean" enough to say who cares if other folks don't have health care. But they aren't willing to give up something they have (good insurance) for something they think is likely to be inferior.

lapin_windstar

I am not sure if those are fair comparisons. For instance, although the Walter Reade hospital in DC was falling apart and rightly criticized, iirc the VA's drug spend per patient (or per comparable process, or something) was much lower than the private sector because they buy drugs in bulk and after screening for value.

Equally, it's not that the Social Security system is terrible per se, it's just that it's not funded adequately because people don't want to pay more taxes (believing that they would be better off by keeping the dollar and investing it themselves instead of turning it over to someone else for the same purpose).

What's striking about the debate in the US is that you often hear that "Amtrak, the DMV and the US Mail are crap, which proves that anything a government does is crap" - but when you go to other places and find that the rail/mail/licensing system works really well, it's not that anything a government does is crap, just that what's being done now by the US government now is usually crap.

Tracym

I've been inside a VA hospital - it was truly scary.

As far as social security - I was referring to what the plan covered (high deductibles, copays, lack of drug coverage until recently).

And true, I wasn't saying a thing about other country's governments - just what ours seems to do.

I really do think the size of the country has something to do with it.

ironporer

I actually think the US Postal Service does a damn good job. If they could run the Immigration or the universal medical care system as well...we'd be doing well. But I have to think it would suck as bad as the VA hospitals do in real life.

Tracym

I've had more things lost, sent to the neighbor, sent to the other part of the country etc. And they are not famous for treating employees well obviously. While my current post office has many nice folks, going to the counter at a post office in most places - the employees are the grumpiest I've seen.

UPSP works somewhat imo... but if I ever have anything important, it sure goes UPS or Fedex or DHL.

lapin_windstar

Tracym - I admit that I have no direct experience of the VA in any form!
I agree with you to an extent - the back office does a pretty good job. Universal and daily delivery of mail anywhere in the US (and trackable too) for 0.41c? A bargain. But the front office is dreary and the employees are legendarily morose. I don't exactly expect them to turn cartwheels or anything, but you know...

FedEx isn't necessarily quicker at delivery over USPS premium services ime, but the drop-off and shiny shiny packaging is better. We usually have a line of delivery trucks parked outside our work building and you should see the way the drivers literally throw the packages around inside the vans (not that USPS is likely to be any better, I'm sure).

Tracym

They all have specially trained elephants stashed somewhere crushing all the packages they can, I am convinced.

another bloody yank

Exactly!!!!