WEBlue

We've come across a nice house for sale at a reasonable price. However, there are a couple of red flags, the biggest being that it's an old house (built in the 1940s) & it has a cesspool. Not a septic tank, but apparently an even older disposal design called a cesspool.

If we decide to pursue this house, of course we'd have the present cesspool inspected by a specialist, and probably want to replace it with something better. There's no sewer hookup in the immediate area (for now), and our buyer's agent quoted us an estimate of around 10K to put in a new septic system. But a friend (who lives in a different state but has a septic system) feels that's a pretty low-ball estimate--she says 15-20K is more likely. If true, this would make the house price not quite so reasonable, actually. . . .

Anyone have any experience with anything like this?

Mummy in the foothills

Wow I didn't think anyone still had a cesspool. We have a septic system and it works great. Replacement for a whole septic now is more like $20,000 in our area your right about the estimate being low.

HighCountry

You should certainly have it checked for effectiveness and structural stability before making an offer. If the water supply is from an on-site well, I'd have the water tested too.

WEBlue

Yes, most states seem to be trying to replace the older cesspools with septic tanks or sewers, but there are some pockets here & there where these old systems have been grandfathered in for as long as they work if they're not in a flood-risk area or polluting any water in the vicinity. But they're such danger in so many ways that I imagine we'd need to replace this one ASAP . . . unless the inspector finds something more modern than everyone suspects under the back garden.

Oh yes, inspection definitely!!! That's the only way we'd know what price to offer. I'm a huge believer in detailed inspections, done by the most reputable specialists we can find. It's money well spent in advance so as not to lose more money later.

As for the water supply, it's connected to the town's water, so no well to worry about, thank goodness.

Right now I think we're leaning away from this house. The cesspool isn't the only 'antiquated' thing about it, & even though it meets lots of our needs, the negatives of it may well outweigh the positives. Thanks for the replies!

scrubbedexpat099

I had a rather large Septic system put in, 2x2000 and 1x1000 gallon tanks.

The local Health Inspector does not like the leach field being buried as deep as they used to be, now mine has not frozen up, but I have not had a really cold period to try it. Yet.

The problem is that yours would need pumping on a regular basis, check the set backs that you can actually put one in. Probably OK as you do not have wells.

mikajones29

Totally not worth it! It is like buying an old car.

WEBlue

Thanks for this advice, Boiler! Sounds like you have an excellent system as far as capacity goes. I would love to have a large system put in, since we want to have family & friends be able to come to stay without worrying. My friend says she has to pump her septic before & after she has family come for a visit.

Another person we spoke to said he had to stop giving parties because his old system would get blocked. Even though he rented porta-potties for the parties, apparently people disobeyed instructions & over-used the house loos. I have a relative with a large system & although it's 30 years old he can get away with around 8-10 years between pumps.

Ha, you may be right! Are you speaking from experience of old systems, Mika?

I've never lived in a home with a septic system (always sewers), so I'm with you in theory. We're having to study up on all this because the OH is very, very interested in this house . . . though he is getting just a tad discouraged at the cost that may be involved in bringing the place up to what we consider a liveable standard.

AdobePinon

Yeah, that's definitely a lowball estimate from your agent. Also, make sure you know what the regulations are locally. Sometimes there are enforced updates to these kinds of things when a property changes hands.

Jerseygirl

Why don't you get quotes from a few companies to install a new system?

WEBlue

Thanks for the input on price. After further probing from us, our agent has admitted that $10K is probably the minimum amount needed, and she also said that low estimate was assuming it was only the two of us living in the house. After hearing that we want to be able to have our children (& partners & grandchildren) be able to visit, she has raised her estimate.

The regulations seem to be that one must have an inspection plus a sanitation person from the Environmental Dept. look at the present system to evaluate whether it's in compliance or not. The property owners are unsure what present regulations are but say the system is working fine for their needs, but they would say that . . . and maybe it is.

The septic people (experts?) we've spoken to say there's a huge range in the cost of a new system, mostly depending the state of the present system & the ground itself. It all seems a very inexact science, with nobody able to tell us specifics up front.

Right now the house has been taken off the market (our realtor doesn't know why) but we've heard that's just temporary & maybe repairs are going to be done . . . . Thanks for all the feedback so far, Forum folks. It's been helpful in consolidating our thoughts.

scrubbedexpat099

The biggest cost factor variable if the ground, is it is easy to dig in?

The components are easily priced.

Bob

Quote does seem low.

The other factor, apart from digging costs are maintenance costs, especially winter costs...out where the in-laws live up in Maine, it's easy finding a company that can put them in, during the summer, but not as many to chose from in the winter, who are able to dig at the thing if they need to during winter, so you pay a much higher premium if something goes wrong.

Also got to figure in easy access to the thing. The way the folks have theirs meant they couldn't have a deck on their garden without moving the tank for a huge cost, but the way their house is, moving the tank would have other issues during the winter with ground freeze and access maintenance.

They've never had to had the thing pumped since I've been here though.

Tarkak9

(this is something I encourage my clients to do) - You may want to casually talk to neighbors to see if they've heard anything about the property or to see if the owner has ever mentioned anything in passing. But, remember, its only hearsay until proven otherwise but it may produce info to follow up on.

You'll probably will find that septic system size requirements are normally based on bedroom count of the property (so if you have a 3bd house with a system adequate for 2 bedroom house, that isn't good and prob not to your local code. The seller isn't lying to say its working for their needs... afterall, best to their current actual knowledge, its doing what its designed for. A system that old I'd be very cautious, I'd be mindful of the structural integrity because you could have a sink-hole waiting to happen. Not only that, I'd also want to inspect the plumbing lines from the house to it too to ensure their fine, which could add to the cost if they need to be replaced. I'd bank that the whole system needs to be replaced. If you are thinking of renovating and adding bedrooms etc, step up the size now. Double check with your lender if they have any requirements to be mindful of regarding septic systems. It is not uncommon that, as a minimum, they may want the system pumped within the last 30 days of closing. Check with your health dept about requirements when conveyance of ownership occurs.

Ask why the property has been taken off the market. If repairs are being made you have a right to know because you'll probably find that any change to the physical condition of the property since being listed has to be disclosed, aka adverse material fact.

Unrelated to the topic but check the roof... in many areas wood shake roofs are being mandated out due to fire risk.

WEBlue

Ah yes, we were told the type of soil is extremely important, & also the lay of the garden & its features (trees, rocks, slope, etc). That was where the estimates of the cost varied a lot. The old system has to be tested to see if any of it is viable & what needs replacing or cleaning up or whatever, then a perk test (?) has to be done to assess the soil, then the inspector along with Environmental engineer say what's what with the old system & what needs to be done.

We've been told that the physical nature of the property has to determine which components need to be used. So all we know now is how big a tank we want. We're not sure what it should be made of & whether the leach field needs specialist features of any kind. It seems the inspector & environmental pros will determine those factors. Does that sound correct?

As for our observations of the dirt in the garden, it seemed good to us when we viewed the house several times. We always walk around the garden. The grass isn't perfect, but there weren't any big differences in colour (supposed to be a tip-off of leaky system?), there are a few large trees (I know their roots are a danger), & the dirt seemed normally friable. But of course we aren't experts, & at that time we were just becoming aware of septic issues. Now that we've begun studying up, the house is suddenly off the market, so we no longer have accesss, which is mildly frustrating.

Hmm, excellent point. I hadn't really thought about any work being done in the winter being more expensive than in the warmer weather. . . . We need to figure that timing into our plans if we do go ahead with a purchase.

Yeah, all this was new to us, the idea that you can't make changes to the house or garden without carefully considering the effect on the "equipment" buried below. And the weather has to be taken into account, rainfall, droughts & freezing . . . .

Your folks are lucky, or perhaps they treat their system well. I've collected a long list of "Dos & Dont's" for healthy maintenance, heh, things I'd never have thought about.

WEBlue

Thanks for the useful info, Tarkak. If the house goes back on the market at a viable price, we will try to talk to the neighbours. (The husband always does that anyway.) Good to know that the owners must disclose any changes/repairs. This particular house needs a lot of work (roof is another uncertainty), so I'm curious to see exactly what if anything they're fixing. . . .

And yes, the sinkhole scenario is my worst nightmare! We want our garden to be safe for children & pets, & don't want to have to be worrying.