Worst city in the US
Sep 19th 2007, 4:22 am
#46
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 8,497
Re: Worst city in the US
I didn't realise Milwaukee had a bad reputation. 
I loved it when I went there. Of course that did include a tour of the Miller brewery. 
Friends of ours live there and say it has some wonderful, smaller neighbourhoods, very varied and culturally diverse. In a good way.
And of course there's nothing quite like being in Speedway, IN on Memorial Day weekend. Yes, I have walked down Georgetown Road in a chequered flag bikini with a beer, in anticipation of the Indy 500 on that weekend. 
Good times! 
I loved it when I went there. Of course that did include a tour of the Miller brewery. Friends of ours live there and say it has some wonderful, smaller neighbourhoods, very varied and culturally diverse. In a good way.
And of course there's nothing quite like being in Speedway, IN on Memorial Day weekend. Yes, I have walked down Georgetown Road in a chequered flag bikini with a beer, in anticipation of the Indy 500 on that weekend. Good times!
Sep 19th 2007, 5:35 am
#47
Lapine Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas in my own little world
Posts: 21,691
Re: Worst city in the US
Yes, it is.
Portland, Oregon, is one of the most heavily planned and regulated cities. We in Austin keep trying but our state Legislature is very conservative so tries to bat down whatever it can. Nevertheless, we have roadways that are designated as scenic corridors (no billboards or gaudy signs), line of sight paths to the Capitol building which cannot be obstructed, and we are considering ordinances that control what can be built alone the Lady Bird Johnson/Town Lake/Colorado River as it flows through the city. We also are considering a McMansion ordinance because there are a number of people doing teardowns in charming cottage neighbourhoods and sticking up mammoth forgettable dwellings, so that they can live in a Big House closer in. There are several "historic" overlays.
The down side to this is that these ordinances and restrictions come under fire from property rights advocates, and these are very well represented in the US and *definitely* in Texas. One example is that every neighbourhood can apply for the right to a neighbourhood vote to ban people parking on their own front lawns.
Portland, Oregon, is one of the most heavily planned and regulated cities. We in Austin keep trying but our state Legislature is very conservative so tries to bat down whatever it can. Nevertheless, we have roadways that are designated as scenic corridors (no billboards or gaudy signs), line of sight paths to the Capitol building which cannot be obstructed, and we are considering ordinances that control what can be built alone the Lady Bird Johnson/Town Lake/Colorado River as it flows through the city. We also are considering a McMansion ordinance because there are a number of people doing teardowns in charming cottage neighbourhoods and sticking up mammoth forgettable dwellings, so that they can live in a Big House closer in. There are several "historic" overlays.
The down side to this is that these ordinances and restrictions come under fire from property rights advocates, and these are very well represented in the US and *definitely* in Texas. One example is that every neighbourhood can apply for the right to a neighbourhood vote to ban people parking on their own front lawns.
Sep 19th 2007, 5:56 am
#48
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,813
Re: Worst city in the US
Places I've been to, but you don't even want to bother with:
Fresno, California - hot as Hades (45C in summer is standard) or tule fogs in winter that shut everything down for weeks at a stretch (not that there is anything to do anyway).
Midland-Odessa, Texas - Has someone dropped the ugly bomb on that place?
Fortuna, California - in a word, toxic.
Fresno, California - hot as Hades (45C in summer is standard) or tule fogs in winter that shut everything down for weeks at a stretch (not that there is anything to do anyway).
Midland-Odessa, Texas - Has someone dropped the ugly bomb on that place?
Fortuna, California - in a word, toxic.
Sep 19th 2007, 6:06 am
#49
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,455
Re: Worst city in the US
In Britain you can get the book of Crap Towns parts I and II 
Wonder if there is a US equivalent?
Wonder if there is a US equivalent?
Sep 19th 2007, 8:41 am
#50
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,820
Re: Worst city in the US
Having travelled over most of this great country I had better give my two penny worth
My top ten, bad being # 1.
Camden NJ
El Paso TX
Miami FL (yes I know a few of you live there but do you see the sleazy parts a lot ?)
Jersey City NJ.
Detroit MI
Cleveland OH
Birmingham AL
Lawrence MA
Chicago IL.
New Haven CT.
Now my top ten best
Portland OR.
Saratoga NY
Concord NH
Prescot AZ
Dodge City KS
Bangor ME
Monpelier VT
Ocala FL
Savanna GA
Shreveport LA.
My top ten, bad being # 1.
Camden NJ
El Paso TX
Miami FL (yes I know a few of you live there but do you see the sleazy parts a lot ?)
Jersey City NJ.
Detroit MI
Cleveland OH
Birmingham AL
Lawrence MA
Chicago IL.
New Haven CT.
Now my top ten best
Portland OR.
Saratoga NY
Concord NH
Prescot AZ
Dodge City KS
Bangor ME
Monpelier VT
Ocala FL
Savanna GA
Shreveport LA.
Sep 19th 2007, 10:02 am
#51
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: Worst city in the US
Bill Bryson had some interesting comments on similar acts of architectural desecration in the UK. What about the carbuncle or whatever Prince Charles made a few years back?
Sep 19th 2007, 12:51 pm
#52
I approved this message
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,425
Re: Worst city in the US
I have a new nominee: Washington DC. I lived there for four years in the mid nineties:
1. Bizarre, hamstrung government structure means that nothing ever gets done and the services in general are terrible. For example, we had several giant snow storms while I was there and each time we simply had to wait until the snow melted to move our car. In four years, our street was never plowed. Also, trash pick-up was sporadic at best, the roads were horribly maintained and the parks (outside of the Mall) are generally filthy. The quality of life is basically terrible if you live in the city, which is ridiculous given the astronomical DC income and sales taxes (real estate taxes are pretty low, however).
2. Huge racial and class problems. The city is largely poor and black (NE, SE, most of SW), but all of the nice sections and better suburbs are monochromatically white and rich (most of NW). The DC government exacerbates the problem by seeing everything (and speaking about everything) through the prism of race. Voting is done primarily along racial lines, all planning decisions are done largely on the basis of race etc, etc. People are driven apart: to a greater extent than any other US city I've lived, it's really two cities. The city has palpable racial tension at all times.
3. DC residents elected, and then re-elected a mayor after he had been videotaped smoking crack with prositutes. His response on camera: "bitch set me up!" Lovely.
4. The Metro goes everywhere except, bizarrely, Georgetown. After all, why have public transportation go where people actually live or want to go? :curse:
5. The suburbs are largely soulless planned communities with all of the personality of a 1982 strip mall. There are exceptions but most of it is endless tract developments without meaningful town centers.
6. Crime, crime and more crime. Huge murder problem. My friends had two cars stolen (in a fairly nice neighborhood) in six months. The city streets after dark are more than a little edgy in many parts of the city.
7. Ancient road and highway system means traffic problems are absurd for such a relatively small city. The streets in the city are based on a system of squares which may have worked in the horse-and-buggy era, but are disastrous for cars. The beltway is essentially a giant parking lot at all times and the Dulles access road is possibly the most bizarre and wasteful highway ever constructed (empty, free lanes to the airport only, all local lanes are always packed and feature high tolls). the city was clearly designed as a propagandistic showpiece, not as a place to actually live and work.
8. The worst taxis in the US: it's based on an arcane "zone" system rather than the meter system that every other city in the world uses. I won't get into particulars, but the zone system basically ensures that you're going to be ripped off on any cab ride. Also, the cabs themselves are filthy wrecks, the drivers are rude assholes and fares are doubled at the first hint of snow (legally). Worst of all, the cabbies are allowed to pick up more than one party at a time. I'm not joking: late at night, you often end up forced to share a cab with complete strangers often going to a place nowhere near where you live.
DC does have fantastic museums and the whole "seat of power" feeling you get around the governmental offices is certainly impressive, but as a place to live and conduct everyday business, it's a disaster.
1. Bizarre, hamstrung government structure means that nothing ever gets done and the services in general are terrible. For example, we had several giant snow storms while I was there and each time we simply had to wait until the snow melted to move our car. In four years, our street was never plowed. Also, trash pick-up was sporadic at best, the roads were horribly maintained and the parks (outside of the Mall) are generally filthy. The quality of life is basically terrible if you live in the city, which is ridiculous given the astronomical DC income and sales taxes (real estate taxes are pretty low, however).
2. Huge racial and class problems. The city is largely poor and black (NE, SE, most of SW), but all of the nice sections and better suburbs are monochromatically white and rich (most of NW). The DC government exacerbates the problem by seeing everything (and speaking about everything) through the prism of race. Voting is done primarily along racial lines, all planning decisions are done largely on the basis of race etc, etc. People are driven apart: to a greater extent than any other US city I've lived, it's really two cities. The city has palpable racial tension at all times.
3. DC residents elected, and then re-elected a mayor after he had been videotaped smoking crack with prositutes. His response on camera: "bitch set me up!" Lovely.
4. The Metro goes everywhere except, bizarrely, Georgetown. After all, why have public transportation go where people actually live or want to go? :curse:
5. The suburbs are largely soulless planned communities with all of the personality of a 1982 strip mall. There are exceptions but most of it is endless tract developments without meaningful town centers.
6. Crime, crime and more crime. Huge murder problem. My friends had two cars stolen (in a fairly nice neighborhood) in six months. The city streets after dark are more than a little edgy in many parts of the city.
7. Ancient road and highway system means traffic problems are absurd for such a relatively small city. The streets in the city are based on a system of squares which may have worked in the horse-and-buggy era, but are disastrous for cars. The beltway is essentially a giant parking lot at all times and the Dulles access road is possibly the most bizarre and wasteful highway ever constructed (empty, free lanes to the airport only, all local lanes are always packed and feature high tolls). the city was clearly designed as a propagandistic showpiece, not as a place to actually live and work.
8. The worst taxis in the US: it's based on an arcane "zone" system rather than the meter system that every other city in the world uses. I won't get into particulars, but the zone system basically ensures that you're going to be ripped off on any cab ride. Also, the cabs themselves are filthy wrecks, the drivers are rude assholes and fares are doubled at the first hint of snow (legally). Worst of all, the cabbies are allowed to pick up more than one party at a time. I'm not joking: late at night, you often end up forced to share a cab with complete strangers often going to a place nowhere near where you live.
DC does have fantastic museums and the whole "seat of power" feeling you get around the governmental offices is certainly impressive, but as a place to live and conduct everyday business, it's a disaster.
Last edited by Hiro11; Sep 19th 2007 at 1:00 pm.
Sep 19th 2007, 1:36 pm
#54
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: Worst city in the US
I have a new nominee: Washington DC. I lived there for four years in the mid nineties:
1. Bizarre, hamstrung government structure means that nothing ever gets done and the services in general are terrible. For example, we had several giant snow storms while I was there and each time we simply had to wait until the snow melted to move our car. In four years, our street was never plowed. Also, trash pick-up was sporadic at best, the roads were horribly maintained and the parks (outside of the Mall) are generally filthy. The quality of life is basically terrible if you live in the city, which is ridiculous given the astronomical DC income and sales taxes (real estate taxes are pretty low, however).
2. Huge racial and class problems. The city is largely poor and black (NE, SE, most of SW), but all of the nice sections and better suburbs are monochromatically white and rich (most of NW). The DC government exacerbates the problem by seeing everything (and speaking about everything) through the prism of race. Voting is done primarily along racial lines, all planning decisions are done largely on the basis of race etc, etc. People are driven apart: to a greater extent than any other US city I've lived, it's really two cities. The city has palpable racial tension at all times.
3. DC residents elected, and then re-elected a mayor after he had been videotaped smoking crack with prositutes. His response on camera: "bitch set me up!" Lovely.
4. The Metro goes everywhere except, bizarrely, Georgetown. After all, why have public transportation go where people actually live or want to go? :curse:
5. The suburbs are largely soulless planned communities with all of the personality of a 1982 strip mall. There are exceptions but most of it is endless tract developments without meaningful town centers.
6. Crime, crime and more crime. Huge murder problem. My friends had two cars stolen (in a fairly nice neighborhood) in six months. The city streets after dark are more than a little edgy in many parts of the city.
7. Ancient road and highway system means traffic problems are absurd for such a relatively small city. The streets in the city are based on a system of squares which may have worked in the horse-and-buggy era, but are disastrous for cars. The beltway is essentially a giant parking lot at all times and the Dulles access road is possibly the most bizarre and wasteful highway ever constructed (empty, free lanes to the airport only, all local lanes are always packed and feature high tolls). the city was clearly designed as a propagandistic showpiece, not as a place to actually live and work.
8. The worst taxis in the US: it's based on an arcane "zone" system rather than the meter system that every other city in the world uses. I won't get into particulars, but the zone system basically ensures that you're going to be ripped off on any cab ride. Also, the cabs themselves are filthy wrecks, the drivers are rude assholes and fares are doubled at the first hint of snow (legally). Worst of all, the cabbies are allowed to pick up more than one party at a time. I'm not joking: late at night, you often end up forced to share a cab with complete strangers often going to a place nowhere near where you live.
DC does have fantastic museums and the whole "seat of power" feeling you get around the governmental offices is certainly impressive, but as a place to live and conduct everyday business, it's a disaster.
1. Bizarre, hamstrung government structure means that nothing ever gets done and the services in general are terrible. For example, we had several giant snow storms while I was there and each time we simply had to wait until the snow melted to move our car. In four years, our street was never plowed. Also, trash pick-up was sporadic at best, the roads were horribly maintained and the parks (outside of the Mall) are generally filthy. The quality of life is basically terrible if you live in the city, which is ridiculous given the astronomical DC income and sales taxes (real estate taxes are pretty low, however).
2. Huge racial and class problems. The city is largely poor and black (NE, SE, most of SW), but all of the nice sections and better suburbs are monochromatically white and rich (most of NW). The DC government exacerbates the problem by seeing everything (and speaking about everything) through the prism of race. Voting is done primarily along racial lines, all planning decisions are done largely on the basis of race etc, etc. People are driven apart: to a greater extent than any other US city I've lived, it's really two cities. The city has palpable racial tension at all times.
3. DC residents elected, and then re-elected a mayor after he had been videotaped smoking crack with prositutes. His response on camera: "bitch set me up!" Lovely.
4. The Metro goes everywhere except, bizarrely, Georgetown. After all, why have public transportation go where people actually live or want to go? :curse:
5. The suburbs are largely soulless planned communities with all of the personality of a 1982 strip mall. There are exceptions but most of it is endless tract developments without meaningful town centers.
6. Crime, crime and more crime. Huge murder problem. My friends had two cars stolen (in a fairly nice neighborhood) in six months. The city streets after dark are more than a little edgy in many parts of the city.
7. Ancient road and highway system means traffic problems are absurd for such a relatively small city. The streets in the city are based on a system of squares which may have worked in the horse-and-buggy era, but are disastrous for cars. The beltway is essentially a giant parking lot at all times and the Dulles access road is possibly the most bizarre and wasteful highway ever constructed (empty, free lanes to the airport only, all local lanes are always packed and feature high tolls). the city was clearly designed as a propagandistic showpiece, not as a place to actually live and work.
8. The worst taxis in the US: it's based on an arcane "zone" system rather than the meter system that every other city in the world uses. I won't get into particulars, but the zone system basically ensures that you're going to be ripped off on any cab ride. Also, the cabs themselves are filthy wrecks, the drivers are rude assholes and fares are doubled at the first hint of snow (legally). Worst of all, the cabbies are allowed to pick up more than one party at a time. I'm not joking: late at night, you often end up forced to share a cab with complete strangers often going to a place nowhere near where you live.
DC does have fantastic museums and the whole "seat of power" feeling you get around the governmental offices is certainly impressive, but as a place to live and conduct everyday business, it's a disaster.
Sep 19th 2007, 1:48 pm
#55
Sursum corda
Joined: Sep 2002
Location: Richmond Hill, GA USA
Posts: 38,860
Re: Worst city in the US
Portlands a dump too, the outskirts are nice, though.
How about cities that should be great but totally fail? I was in Burlington VT last month. It's pretty much a textbook example of how to absolutely ruin an incredibly beautiful site for a city.
- Lake Champlain is gorgeous and yet the city makes essentially no use of its amazing waterfront. All of the tourist areas, shopping districts and restaurants are well away from the shore while factories, depots and hideous warehouses crowd the lake.
- Burlington's situated on a steep hill. On a clear day, you can see straight across the Lake to New York State. It's almost Alpine in its beauty. Yet most buildings seem to not take advantage of the view.
- The main downtown street is extremely "Disneyfied" and packed with awful, glitzy restarants and flashy architecture left over from the 80s. It's totally against everything that Vermont actually stands for (natural beauty, lack of commercialization and simple, thrifty charm).
- The poverty there is somewhat shocking in a state that prides itself as being the most "progressive". Some of the neighborhoods right next to the main tourist drag are almost Dickensian.
Overall, a wreck of a city. It should study Madison WI or Bend, OR for an example of how to do a small "outdoorsy city" right.
How about cities that should be great but totally fail? I was in Burlington VT last month. It's pretty much a textbook example of how to absolutely ruin an incredibly beautiful site for a city.
- Lake Champlain is gorgeous and yet the city makes essentially no use of its amazing waterfront. All of the tourist areas, shopping districts and restaurants are well away from the shore while factories, depots and hideous warehouses crowd the lake.
- Burlington's situated on a steep hill. On a clear day, you can see straight across the Lake to New York State. It's almost Alpine in its beauty. Yet most buildings seem to not take advantage of the view.
- The main downtown street is extremely "Disneyfied" and packed with awful, glitzy restarants and flashy architecture left over from the 80s. It's totally against everything that Vermont actually stands for (natural beauty, lack of commercialization and simple, thrifty charm).
- The poverty there is somewhat shocking in a state that prides itself as being the most "progressive". Some of the neighborhoods right next to the main tourist drag are almost Dickensian.
Overall, a wreck of a city. It should study Madison WI or Bend, OR for an example of how to do a small "outdoorsy city" right.
Sep 19th 2007, 2:03 pm
#56
And YOU'RE paying for it!
Joined: May 2007
Location: kipper tie?
Posts: 2,328
Re: Worst city in the US
I was in Burlington VT last month. It's pretty much a textbook example of how to absolutely ruin an incredibly beautiful site for a city....Lake Champlain is gorgeous and yet the city makes essentially no use of its amazing waterfront. All of the tourist areas, shopping districts and restaurants are well away from the shore while factories, depots and hideous warehouses crowd the lake.
Sep 19th 2007, 2:30 pm
#57
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,351
Re: Worst city in the US
Actually, the "America's most dangerous City" moniker was earned using stats that don't tell the whole story. In order to understand what I mean you must understand how the city is set up.
St. Louis City proper is really a city within a city. The original City defined itself seperately from St. Louis County back in the 1800's when St. Louis County was very rural. So now we have St. Louis "City" and St. Louis "County" which are legally completely different entities. The city has a population of 300 some odd thousand out of a total Metro (City+ County) population of nearly three million. The numbers Ray quoted were taken from the "City" crime figures. Breaking it down even further, the VAST majority of St. Louis City's violent crime takes place in "North" City, (AKA "The Hood") an area comprised of neighborhoods located in the Northern Third of the City.
And yes, this small area has enough violent crime to carry the other two thirds of the City to the top of the most violent list.
Stay out of North City and St. Louis is a very safe place.
St. Louis City proper is really a city within a city. The original City defined itself seperately from St. Louis County back in the 1800's when St. Louis County was very rural. So now we have St. Louis "City" and St. Louis "County" which are legally completely different entities. The city has a population of 300 some odd thousand out of a total Metro (City+ County) population of nearly three million. The numbers Ray quoted were taken from the "City" crime figures. Breaking it down even further, the VAST majority of St. Louis City's violent crime takes place in "North" City, (AKA "The Hood") an area comprised of neighborhoods located in the Northern Third of the City.
And yes, this small area has enough violent crime to carry the other two thirds of the City to the top of the most violent list.
Stay out of North City and St. Louis is a very safe place.
The City itself has lost more than 50% of its population since 1950. This plus its high crime rate are nothing to brag about. To claim that the crime stats are misleading as the City of St. Louis is only part of the entire St. Louis conurbation doesn't cut it with me. Basically, the City of St. Louis, and in particular its north 1/2 are rough and crime-ridden.
Sep 19th 2007, 3:04 pm
#58
Unmitigated Gall
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: it's still too dark to tell
Posts: 16,162
Re: Worst city in the US
My brother in law and family live in St. Louis....well actually they live some 40 km west in a suburb called O'Fallon or Dardenne Prairie (can't tell which one...they are all full of McMansions and people scared to go to STL). I visited STL in April 2001 and you are right, the City of St. Louis north of the main east west axis road (can't remember the name of it, but Washington University and the big park with the zoo front on to it), is pretty scary. The area around the bus station is a burnt out looking area even in the daytime. ESL is worse, with its main claim to fame being strip clubs, drugs and prostitution.
The City itself has lost more than 50% of its population since 1950. This plus its high crime rate are nothing to brag about. To claim that the crime stats are misleading as the City of St. Louis is only part of the entire St. Louis conurbation doesn't cut it with me. Basically, the City of St. Louis, and in particular its north 1/2 are rough and crime-ridden.
The City itself has lost more than 50% of its population since 1950. This plus its high crime rate are nothing to brag about. To claim that the crime stats are misleading as the City of St. Louis is only part of the entire St. Louis conurbation doesn't cut it with me. Basically, the City of St. Louis, and in particular its north 1/2 are rough and crime-ridden.
Why doesn't that cut it with you? It's the truth! The North side (and some parts of the South side, drag the rest of the City down when it comes to violent crime stats. The Southwest part of the city where I grew up and lived until 4 years ago is as safe as McMansion Suburbiaville where your BIL lives.
Sep 19th 2007, 4:19 pm
#59
BE Site Lead
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 92,170
Re: Worst city in the US
Lawrence, I agree is a shit hole, but they are trying to spruce it up, ain't working...would add parts of jamaica plain, dorchester and rochester to the list for mass as well.
And Bangor, that's a surprise, it's, well a bit nothing, certainly improved loads over the last year or so, especially the water front, but not that much...
And Bangor, that's a surprise, it's, well a bit nothing, certainly improved loads over the last year or so, especially the water front, but not that much...
Sep 19th 2007, 4:22 pm
#60
Mr. Grumpy
Joined: Jun 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 3,100
Re: Worst city in the US
2. Huge racial and class problems. The city is largely poor and black (NE, SE, most of SW), but all of the nice sections and better suburbs are monochromatically white and rich (most of NW). The DC government exacerbates the problem by seeing everything (and speaking about everything) through the prism of race. Voting is done primarily along racial lines, all planning decisions are done largely on the basis of race etc, etc. People are driven apart: to a greater extent than any other US city I've lived, it's really two cities. The city has palpable racial tension at all times..
it may be worse
